i7 vs i5 gaming - questions + setup?

[irralis]

Just gonna ask about this aswell.
how much "truth" is there in that statement? that AMD's are worse for WoW?
or is that just personal oppinions shining?

Intel's single thread performance is absolutely demolishing when you compare it to an equal AMD processor. Because WoW only uses (I think it's 3 might be 2) threads, you can fit all of them on separate cores on an Intel processor and get much better performance. The flip side is that AMD has more cores, so when games start coming out to utilize them all, we *might* see the gap close.

A lot of the above is a little hyperbolic though at the top of the performance parts list tbh. I have an FX-6300 (work overruled gaming), and I still pull off stable 60 FPS in ultra 1280x1024, down to 40-50 in 25 man raids.

[Unproven]

Intel's single thread performance is absolutely demolishing when you compare it to an equal AMD processor. Because WoW only uses (I think it's 3 might be 2) threads, you can fit all of them on separate cores on an Intel processor and get much better performance. The flip side is that AMD has more cores, so when games start coming out to utilize them all, we *might* see the gap close.

A lot of the above is a little hyperbolic though at the top of the performance parts list tbh. I have an FX-6300 (work overruled gaming), and I still pull off stable 60 FPS in ultra 1280x1024, down to 40-50 in 25 man raids.

For fun ive tried to compare this prebuild: http://topdata.dk/product.asp?product=9298
and if i ordered all the parts myselvf from this side http://www.proshop.dk/
if i compare it theres only 500DKK difference - aprox 90USD difference..
wouldent that be a solid buy?

[Cyrops]

Well throwing this kind of money i where kinda hoping for something able to live atleast more than 3-4 years (depending on how fast stuff is gonna go the next few years?? )

bwhaha. way to bad to stream stuff. none would EVER look at me paddling around spamming lightningbolts in a raid
so with THAT out of the way.. Radeon/Nvidia is pretty much equal i take it..?

i7 will last longer over i5, and Radeon will last longer over nVidia if Mantle turns out to be a success.

With that money you can plan for future and get a mobo that supports x8 crossfire/sli and plan to get a second card, as i7 will be able to handle multi GPU's better than i5. Getting 2nd GPU in 2-3years will give you the boost to continue playing games on high/ultra.

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The flip side is that AMD has more cores, so when games start coming out to utilize them all, we *might* see the gap close.

A lot of the above is a little hyperbolic though at the top of the performance parts list tbh. I have an FX-6300 (work overruled gaming), and I still pull off stable 60 FPS in ultra 1280x1024, down to 40-50 in 25 man raids.

You do know that Intel demolishes AMD on multithreading as well? And AMD '8 core' is not a true 8 core.

[irralis]

For fun ive tried to compare this prebuild: http://topdata.dk/product.asp?product=9298
and if i ordered all the parts myselvf from this side http://www.proshop.dk/
if i compare it theres only 500DKK difference - aprox 90USD difference..
wouldent that be a solid buy?

I'll strongly defer to others here because tbh I'm a hardware guy. I haven't checked that build for cost effectiveness because I'm at work, but imo if the difference is that small and you're comfortable with it then I don't see why not.

[Cyrops]

For fun ive tried to compare this prebuild: http://topdata.dk/product.asp?product=9298
and if i ordered all the parts myselvf from this side http://www.proshop.dk/
if i compare it theres only 500DKK difference - aprox 90USD difference..
wouldent that be a solid buy?

That http://topdata.dk/product.asp?product=9298 is not a solid build, it has i5, but non K so CPU will be a bottleneck in a few years and you can't OC to increase CPU performance at that point. Also it has no SSD and no aftermarket cooler (probably not needed for non K though).

If you look at the build I put together, you can take out the SSD and add 700 kr to get GTX780 and you come up to 7.5k total like on that prebuilt system, but the difference will be OC'able system, that will last longer and perform better.

[Katchii]

Nvidia and Radeon go back and forth on who is superior at the time. Look at reviews and performance logs on site's like Tom's Hardware for the specific GPU's you're looking at and see which one does what you want for the price you're willing to pay. For processor, AMD is also good but currently Intel i5s and i7s just run WoW, and some other games, better so I'd go with one of those.

SSD is great, but not a requirement by any means, it will decrease load times for the things you have saved on it but that's the only benefit, any increase in performance is minimal and in my opinion, the cost of an SSD doesn't really outweigh the benefit of putting that money towards a better processor, GPU, Motherboard or more RAM (unless you already have enough).

[irralis]

I don't want to derail this thread into an AMD vs Intel war but I also don't want misinformation.

You do know that Intel demolishes AMD on multithreading as well? And AMD '8 core' is not a true 8 core.

You're right, they're not "true" cores, but they are really close to it and they are actual physical hardware unlike Intel's hyperthreading.

http://www.techspot.com/review/734-b...rks/page6.html

BF4 can run 8 threads if you have 8 cores. Which means an FX-8350 ($189) is essentially the same performance as a 4770k ($300). I'll concede that BF4 as it stands is still heavily GPU-bottlenecked, so it's hard to tell which processor will win when they're both at 100% utilization. I never said AMD was going to skyrocket past Intel with more heavily threaded games, but as they come out, the performance difference is negligible at best.

Also, in my experience in the realm of "pure" multitasking, AMD wrecks. My poor little FX-6300 for work compiles our software in ~3.5 minutes. The 4670 test system I used to figure out what to buy sits around 8.

[Ripox]

For fun ive tried to compare this prebuild: http://topdata.dk/product.asp?product=9298
and if i ordered all the parts myselvf from this side http://www.proshop.dk/
if i compare it theres only 500DKK difference - aprox 90USD difference..
wouldent that be a solid buy?

The fact that building it yourself has a marginal difference in price isn't the issue here, it's the fact that lots of those component parts are not solid to begin with. You do not want that CPU for WoW for long-term, you want to be able to over clock. You also want an SSD. That GPU is also overkill. Stick to the builds suggested

[Cyrops]

I don't want to derail this thread into an AMD vs Intel war but I also don't want misinformation.



You're right, they're not "true" cores, but they are really close to it and they are actual physical hardware unlike Intel's hyperthreading.

http://www.techspot.com/review/734-b...rks/page6.html

BF4 can run 8 threads if you have 8 cores. Which means an FX-8350 ($189) is essentially the same performance as a 4770k ($300). I'll concede that BF4 as it stands is still heavily GPU-bottlenecked, so it's hard to tell which processor will win when they're both at 100% utilization. I never said AMD was going to skyrocket past Intel with more heavily threaded games, but as they come out, the performance difference is negligible at best.

Also, in my experience in the realm of "pure" multitasking, AMD wrecks. My poor little FX-6300 for work compiles our software in ~3.5 minutes. The 4670 test system I used to figure out what to buy sits around 8.

That could be just a software exception, AMD has 8 int units so it WILL perform int calculations faster than i5 -_-

[Unproven]

Thanks all of you. been really informative...

as ive understood from it all - compared to my first questions is that i5 is more tha enough for my personal need, but if i would spendt the money a i7 would still be preferable.

the pre-build ISENT a solid build as the "lifespand?" would be alot lower than the build suggest here as i wouldent be able to overclock it? (if i understood that right)

Radeon vs Intel does seem to be quite abit of a personal feel?
but would i be able to in the build posted on the first page be able to switch to a intel instead or would the sockets not match the rest?

thanks alot all of you. really appriciate it

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Anyone able to help me out with my last questions? (:

Thanks in advance!

[Cyrops]

Thanks all of you. been really informative...

as ive understood from it all - compared to my first questions is that i5 is more tha enough for my personal need, but if i would spendt the money a i7 would still be preferable.

the pre-build ISENT a solid build as the "lifespand?" would be alot lower than the build suggest here as i wouldent be able to overclock it? (if i understood that right)

Radeon vs Intel does seem to be quite abit of a personal feel?
but would i be able to in the build posted on the first page be able to switch to a intel instead or would the sockets not match the rest?

thanks alot all of you. really appriciate it

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Anyone able to help me out with my last questions? (:

Thanks in advance!

Radeon is a GPU (Graphics Card) brand, Intel manufactures CPU's. nVidia cards are not made by Intel. AMD makes CPU's.

So what are you asking? If you buy AMD cpu you won't be able to get Intel CPU in the same board. If you buy nVidia you can later switch to AMD GPU.

And to answer your question about prebuilt:
The prebuilt has i5 that can't be overclocked. When you overclock a CPU it works faster, so it would last longer. When new CPU's are released they have improvement over old ones - either faster speed or more cores, making them calculate faster. When you OC an older CPU it calculates faster so it the gap between old and new is much shorter. And it also doesn't have an SSD, but you can add that without any problems.

[Deleted]

Radeon is a GPU (Graphics Card) brand, Intel manufactures CPU's. nVidia cards are not made by Intel. AMD makes CPU's.

So what are you asking? If you buy AMD cpu you won't be able to get Intel CPU in the same board. If you buy nVidia you can later switch to AMD GPU.

And to answer your question about prebuilt:
The prebuilt has i5 that can't be overclocked. When you overclock a CPU it works faster, so it would last longer. When new CPU's are released they have improvement over old ones - either faster speed or more cores, making them calculate faster. When you OC an older CPU it calculates faster so it the gap between old and new is much shorter. And it also doesn't have an SSD, but you can add that without any problems.

As far as I remember Ati bought AMD so basicly Ati and AMD are from the same manufacturer or brand.

As for processor struggle in i5 vs. i7, In case of only playing games I does not mather which one you really take. The difference between i5 and i7 are basicly only the hyperthreading. Paying 100e more for such insignificant thing if you're only playing games is just waste.

As for GPU nvidia or AMD are basicly in the same. I've had both in the past, I've had problems with both but so far there hasnt been that much difference in semipriced GPUs.

Atm Im running with i5 3570 OC (basicly the new i5 4600 as far as I remember) and 680. 8gb ram and and SSD (you definetly want one for most used programs.) All Im saying that "arguments" Between intel / AMD and Nvidia / Ati are same as arguing PC / Apple. they are opinions which both have some truth behind them both positive and negative.

[Cyrops]

As far as I remember Ati bought AMD so basicly Ati and AMD are from the same manufacturer or brand.

Yes but Radeon is name for GPU chip.

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same as arguing PC / Apple

Again, PC is general name and Apple is a company. Apple makes PC's among other things.

[Unproven]

Radeon is a GPU (Graphics Card) brand, Intel manufactures CPU's. nVidia cards are not made by Intel. AMD makes CPU's.

So what are you asking? If you buy AMD cpu you won't be able to get Intel CPU in the same board. If you buy nVidia you can later switch to AMD GPU.

And to answer your question about prebuilt:
The prebuilt has i5 that can't be overclocked. When you overclock a CPU it works faster, so it would last longer. When new CPU's are released they have improvement over old ones - either faster speed or more cores, making them calculate faster. When you OC an older CPU it calculates faster so it the gap between old and new is much shorter. And it also doesn't have an SSD, but you can add that without any problems.

wow haha. sorry for that brainfart.
i ment Nvidia cards VS Radeon -
so what i ment to ask, was in the build was linked, would it be possible to switch the Radeion GPU with a Nvidia one, or would that make the build none functional?

-edit- if you wonder as to WHY i would make the switch from Radeon to Nvidia, well, i got no real anwser for that, besides the none logical as to my social circel appanrently got a witchhunt going on Radeon and is pestering me to get a nvidia one.

[Cyrops]

wow haha. sorry for that brainfart.
i ment Nvidia cards VS Radeon -
so what i ment to ask, was in the build was linked, would it be possible to switch the Radeion GPU with a Nvidia one, or would that make the build none functional?

-edit- if you wonder as to WHY i would make the switch from Radeon to Nvidia, well, i got no real anwser for that, besides the none logical as to my social circel appanrently got a witchhunt going on Radeon and is pestering me to get a nvidia one.

I already said you could

So what are you asking? If you buy AMD cpu you won't be able to get Intel CPU in the same board. If you buy nVidia you can later switch to AMD GPU.

Don't give in to peer pressure, I made a lot of bad choices in life due to that >.>
Also the Mantle is live now you can check the thread for some testing results (50% increase in performance*, for free!) the link is in my sig.


*specific conditions apply :P

[Unproven]

I already said you could



Don't give in to peer pressure, I made a lot of bad choices in life due to that >.>
Also the Mantle is live now you can check the thread for some testing results (50% increase in performance*, for free!) the link is in my sig.


*specific conditions apply :P

Aight your awesome..
so its "only" the CPU and Motherboard that have to be the same/fit together.

[Cyanotical]

on the 8350 vs the 4770k:

the modules on the the AMD chip are not true cores and in fact are more limited in multi thread performance than hyperthreads on an i7, this is due to the fact that core modules on the 8350 share some critical components on the the package, while the i7 has separate components for the hyperthreading, testing hyperthreading with blender on a 16 hour render showed that a hyperthread is about ~93% as effective as a real physical core, so for most applications (including gaming), that's close enough to call a full core

on core count in future games:

simply because a game can take advantage of more cores does not mean that all of a sudden the 8350 will be able to match the 4770k, you can't take clock speed and multiply it by core count. there are many more factors that affect performance, such as IPC rate, L3 cache, architecture efficiency, etc, right now intel is so far ahead that it doesn't matter how many cores AMD throws on a chip, they can't match the 4670k

on mantle:

the current reviews show that it's only worthwhile if a moron built your computer, ie weak cpu, big gpu, for anyone with a real gaming computer, the performance increase in the 3 or so games that support mantle is not even worth the time and effort to download the latest drivers

[Cyrops]

on mantle:

the current reviews show that it's only worthwhile if a moron built your computer, ie weak cpu, big gpu, for anyone with a real gaming computer, the performance increase in the 3 or so games that support mantle is not even worth the time and effort to download the latest drivers

woa woa, I have 4771 and I get 55.6% incrase in performance with Mantle in Star Swarm test. As opposed to BF4, the Star Swarm game is built around having huge amount of units in mind (4.5k ships on average) so the Mantle is bigger impact in it.
When developers start using Mantle, the RTS genre will be the biggest benefactor. Any game that wants to show more objects in screen will use Mantle, it's just that good to skip all the crap between your code and GPU, like drivers and DX api.

BF4 doesn't see huge increase in performance, solely due to fact that Mantle support was only patched in, and not used from the start. At this point adding more objects on screen is not really possible without making huge changes to the game. Though imagine if you play FPS and there are huge fight scenes with thousands of units. Up till now games had to be limited in that regard due to hardware limitations.

And the only game that supports Mantle, that I know of, is BF4, Star Swarm is not released yet, they only have ALPHA Test to test hardware.

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Aight your awesome..
so its "only" the CPU and Motherboard that have to be the same/fit together.

Yes. And to some extent RAM, there are CPU's that support tripple channel, meaning that 3 sticks will be desired over 2, but I think we are deviating too much to the side here

[Unproven]

Yes. And to some extent RAM, there are CPU's that support tripple channel, meaning that 3 sticks will be desired over 2, but I think we are deviating too much to the side here

Well i dont mind. as i had a follow up question..
i was looking at the build and you where hinting that i, if i wanted a better motherboard i should pick: http://www.edbpriser.dk/bundkort/asu...d-7492884.aspx
but how do i know that my motherboard fits with the cpu i choose/the one you linked http://www.edbpriser.dk/processor/co...-7335590.aspx?
ive tried to read the description on both the ones linked. but i simply cant for the love of my life find where i says "fits with x, y and z"
halp!

[Majesticii]

and COD:Ghosts (I might be wrong about this one though)

Yes, it's only 2 or 3 threads.