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  1. #181
    Quote Originally Posted by Socialhealer View Post
    yay now 3 million casters save up for heroic immerseus trinket, now most common item in wow, how rewarding.
    Unless those 3 million casters killed heroic Garrosh, that's not a concern.

    I don't like the idea personally, I hate vendors and points to begin with, but that's a personal thing. RNG has bitten me in the ass (hello Elegon trinket! What trinket?!), but it has also favoured me (hello Immerseus trinket, first heroic kill in the first week of heroic!). I do agree it's what makes the game fun.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Advilnaar View Post
    I do not think most raiders would like that. MMOs tend to be a very "I gots that and you do not" kind of pride thing for people sometimes. You know how it goes.

    You already have badge gear you can get if you are unlucky. True, it is not as good as some of the drops. But still.

    That said, I kind of wish there was a random drop system for random BGs/ rated BGs like the raiders have.
    That'd be nice, a random bag of loot with mostly gold and occassionally an item, much like scenarios. I'd prefer no gear in pvp at all, but Blizzard has made it perfectly clear that's never going to happen, so may as well add some spice to it.
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  2. #182
    High Overlord MadBloke101's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lemonpartyfan View Post
    Ahh, I see. Diverting the question because you are full of hot air=p kk.
    Can't divert if there is no need to reply - another smiley for your trouble?
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    Quote Originally Posted by BenBos View Post
    GTA 5 has not sold so well on PC and the Multi player version (the one that is measured through Xfire) was not that good. It typically shows that on line competitive PC games are played LOOOOONG after they have been published.

  3. #183
    Quote Originally Posted by Tziva View Post
    People might not like the downsides of RNG but it's what keeps people playing. Bad luck with RNG sucks, but good RNG is what makes the game feel fun and rewarding.

    Buying your raid gear from a vendor feels neither fun nor rewarding.
    That's more of an opinion than fact..
    The fact is -the exact system that's described by OP works in PvP. Why couldn't it work in PvE?
    The upside of such loot system is that they can, potentially, scale raids even tighter - because they can safely assume, that after X bosses a player for sure has Y item level. It lets people plan their progression better, and not rely on RNG, which for some - would be a blessing. To one players BiS lists are bad, to other - it's what they are looking for.
    What's more - this is how upgrade system works, where you can easily plan when you upgrade how many items.. And for me it's much more enjoyable than getting an item just out of lucky roll (and most likely loosing it or not even having it drop).

    In the end - that prolly won't happen, just because it's too big of a change, not because it's bad in its principle. That could work, and be tuned so that you'd still need a good few months to get enough "points" to get the item.
    Quote Originally Posted by Archaeon View Post
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  4. #184
    I think weapons, and maybe trinkets would be good candidates for this, but nothing else. If you would get like one token after 5 kills in a specific difficulty level.

    Edit: no, 10.

    Edit2: no, actually, something like this:

    1-4 kills on a boss (locked to difficulty level), no token.
    5 - 5% chance to get a token
    6 - 10%
    7 - 25%
    8 - 50%
    9 - 75%
    10 - 100%

    Meaning that if you're super duper unlucky and don't get a drop from the boss kills after 10 kills, at least you're guaranteed a weapon token (for a weapon which that boss only drops).
    Last edited by critsom; 2014-02-06 at 01:16 PM.

  5. #185
    Warchief Anzen's Avatar
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    This idea (or how it has evolved it this thread) would kind of be a slap in the face for people that play alts or returning players.

  6. #186
    The Lightbringer Naxere's Avatar
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    I could get behind maybe putting LFR gear on a vendor for Valor points, but nothing more than that.
    Quote Originally Posted by Daelak View Post
    Guided placement into a subject you excel at isn't denying desires and dreams.

  7. #187
    Quote Originally Posted by Naxere View Post
    I could get behind maybe putting LFR gear on a vendor for Valor points, but nothing more than that.
    This would at least make a good jumping off point.

  8. #188
    Titan Kelimbror's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Superman-BladesEdge View Post
    This would at least make a good jumping off point.
    I think it would benefit the raid system overall if they even just implement this. It would engage more players in reaching the valor cap, make people feel their time in LFR is more valuable than RNG does, and would make it easier for people looking to actively move from LFR to Flex and onwards.
    BAD WOLF

  9. #189
    Quote Originally Posted by MadBloke101 View Post
    Can't divert if there is no need to reply - another smiley for your trouble?
    No, thats just a diversion, because you don't have a reply =]. See, you suffer from confirmation bias, just because you likely agree with the person I was arguing with, you will forgive their insults, repetition, and bullcrap and blame their opponent for everything(me). Its very sad really.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kelimbror View Post
    I think it would benefit the raid system overall if they even just implement this. It would engage more players in reaching the valor cap, make people feel their time in LFR is more valuable than RNG does, and would make it easier for people looking to actively move from LFR to Flex and onwards.
    People already complain about being forced to valor cap, and they complain about how high it is, and they complain about being forced to run LFR+Flex etc.. you don't think that adding more "incentive" would just garner more complaints about "forced" capping etc?
    When you call yourself an Indian or a Muslim or a Christian or a European, or anything else, you are being violent. Do you see why it is violent? Because you are separating yourself from the rest of mankind. When you separate yourself by belief, by nationality, by tradition, it breeds violence. So a man who is seeking to understand violence does not belong to any country, to any religion, to any political party or partial system; he is concerned with the total understanding of mankind.

  10. #190
    Herald of the Titans MrHappy's Avatar
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    lol no. There is a reason why they stopped putting 2pc tier on vendor for VP. You want raid gear go raid. You don't get your drops? well come back next week. RNG is integral part of this game. Vendor = no replay value past X amount of Currency.
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  11. #191
    Loot is fine the way it is, I only think that they should keep the extra loot on the 20 man Mythic (meaning the bosses drop 5 itens instead of 4 wich would be the amount whithout the extra piece) and that bosses that drop tokens should either have a very small loot table or drop the tokens as extra drops cause it sucks big time when you want somethign from a token boss and it never comes since the draw is so freaking small (specialy in 10 man where you get a grand total of 1 non token iten).

    ps: post 444, yay for 3 numbers 4 in sucession.

  12. #192
    Titan Kelimbror's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lemonpartyfan View Post
    People already complain about being forced to valor cap, and they complain about how high it is, and they complain about being forced to run LFR+Flex etc.. you don't think that adding more "incentive" would just garner more complaints about "forced" capping etc?
    For starters, you don't have to cap unless you are the gotta have it now crowd. Valor wouldn't prevent you from getting LFR gear from LFR, it just provides a bonus opportunity for predicted rewards. But secondly, the problem people feel valor capping is a chore is because of the surrounding implementation.

    They need to make dungeons viable again, remove the once a day bonus and go back to 7 a week, raise valor income from all sources, etc. If someone wants to smash out 7 dungeons in 4 hours or do dailies and kill rares for 4 hours they should both yield an equivalent and higher amount of valor. Likewise LFR could give you extra valor when you don't get loot. Instead of just gold, bonus rolls would yield more valor with no loot. There are many better implementations.
    BAD WOLF

  13. #193
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    Quote Originally Posted by nightguard View Post
    Oh fuck that.
    Rng became a thing in Cata. Grinding was the big thing before and it needs to fucking come back. This crap about getting luck and unlucky is stupid. A guy who played most of the year should not have to worry about being surpassed some new person who just started playing a few weeks ago.
    Honestly so long as it is tied to normal up and that it takes like 5-15 kills of said boss then I'd be ok with it. BUT ONLY AFTER YOU KILLED ALL THE RAID BOSSES.
    Think again... rng has been since the early beta.
    Do you know how many times people have been farming thunderfury and still are? RNG bro... even i have clocked a couple hundred runs on geddon for the second binding.

    RNG never became a thing in cata... it actually was dumped down in cata. Its so much easier to get gear now than it was ever before.

  14. #194
    Yea ring has been around since vanilla, and it's not going away. Sorry to be blunt but it's a stupid idea. It adds to the excitement. This is basic. Humans like to be surprised.

  15. #195
    Quote Originally Posted by Kelimbror View Post
    For starters, you don't have to cap unless you are the gotta have it now crowd. Valor wouldn't prevent you from getting LFR gear from LFR, it just provides a bonus opportunity for predicted rewards. But secondly, the problem people feel valor capping is a chore is because of the surrounding implementation.

    They need to make dungeons viable again, remove the once a day bonus and go back to 7 a week, raise valor income from all sources, etc. If someone wants to smash out 7 dungeons in 4 hours or do dailies and kill rares for 4 hours they should both yield an equivalent and higher amount of valor. Likewise LFR could give you extra valor when you don't get loot. Instead of just gold, bonus rolls would yield more valor with no loot. There are many better implementations.
    Hey man, I know is a silly complaint, but it still happens. People think they have to grind dailies, they have to grind rep etc.

    The problem is almost all of your ideas would effectively shorten tiers; you would get more valor and more loot... much easily. People can solo heroics in short amounts of time... The problem ISN'T how much loot you get. Blizzard has made it easier to get loot and currencies by MULTITUDES since Vanilla. The real problem comes from loot addiction....
    When you call yourself an Indian or a Muslim or a Christian or a European, or anything else, you are being violent. Do you see why it is violent? Because you are separating yourself from the rest of mankind. When you separate yourself by belief, by nationality, by tradition, it breeds violence. So a man who is seeking to understand violence does not belong to any country, to any religion, to any political party or partial system; he is concerned with the total understanding of mankind.

  16. #196
    Legendary! Rorcanna's Avatar
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    I much prefer the current system. Raid gear should, and this ain't rocket science, drop from R.A.I.D.S. Gear from other sources for those not raiding/to upgrade some slots if you are unlucky? Sure, but it shouldn't be BIS EVER.

    Claiming that raid gear was grindable back in the days is pure BS. You could get some pieces sure, but RNG and raid gear from raids has and always will be a huge part of the game. Only difference is now you don't get 2 pieces of loot for 40 people. Still might get nothing useful in a 25-man though, and then people hope for the next kill. I much prefer getting 1 piece of loot that is BiS from actually working in a raid than to grind currencies and just visit a vendor. The thunderforged/warforged adds more to the table.

    Gear is a tool, but that tool SHOULD come from the bosses and not some random npc just carrying it around. Exception being tier tokens but I wouldn't mind the gear to drop from bosses in that case either.

    That feeling when there's a new expansion out and you sit in a Garrison wondering what the hell to do because you are stuck on an entire continent like Timeless Isle, only with flightpaths to encourage afk travel coz "immersion".

  17. #197
    Titan Kelimbror's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lemonpartyfan View Post
    Hey man, I know is a silly complaint, but it still happens. People think they have to grind dailies, they have to grind rep etc.

    The problem is almost all of your ideas would effectively shorten tiers; you would get more valor and more loot... much easily. People can solo heroics in short amounts of time... The problem ISN'T how much loot you get. Blizzard has made it easier to get loot and currencies by MULTITUDES since Vanilla. The real problem comes from loot addiction....
    All it does is remove partial RNG in favor of increased static rewards. It also doesn't shorten tiers as stated it only would apply to LFR. The impact beyond LFR would be minimal except it may propel more people into Flex/Normal. It has nothing to do with loot addiction. It's streamlining character progression so that your input of effort actually equals rewards. Versus the opposite of input of effort may equal rewards. Loot just happens to be the only way that WoW defines character progression as it relates to content. You can't fault players for that mentality.
    BAD WOLF

  18. #198
    Quote Originally Posted by Kelimbror View Post
    All it does is remove partial RNG in favor of increased static rewards. It also doesn't shorten tiers as stated it only would apply to LFR. The impact beyond LFR would be minimal except it may propel more people into Flex/Normal. It has nothing to do with loot addiction. It's streamlining character progression so that your input of effort actually equals rewards. Versus the opposite of input of effort may equal rewards. Loot just happens to be the only way that WoW defines character progression as it relates to content. You can't fault players for that mentality.
    Well for one, the OP doesn't meantion "just LFR." And you already get static rewards, just not static PURPLE BOSS LOOT. And yes, it would shorten the raid tiers, even for just LFR raiders.

    Character progression also involves gold, reps, and acheeves, not to mention pets and mounts. Character progression is already very streamlined. You can easily getan ilvl appropriate for Flex.

    Yes, if your sole reasoning behind the change is purples, its a loot addiction of sorts. As people in this thread have stated, unlucky RNG has caused some to quit. But you guys are conveniently forgetting all the other rewards you get and pretending like only loot matters... sooo if your fun just comes from gearing as fast as you can... then yeah.. thats a personal problem.
    When you call yourself an Indian or a Muslim or a Christian or a European, or anything else, you are being violent. Do you see why it is violent? Because you are separating yourself from the rest of mankind. When you separate yourself by belief, by nationality, by tradition, it breeds violence. So a man who is seeking to understand violence does not belong to any country, to any religion, to any political party or partial system; he is concerned with the total understanding of mankind.

  19. #199
    I would like that, but RNG keeps people subbed longer. So... =/

  20. #200
    Titan Kelimbror's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lemonpartyfan View Post
    Well for one, the OP doesn't meantion "just LFR." And you already get static rewards, just not static PURPLE BOSS LOOT. And yes, it would shorten the raid tiers, even for just LFR raiders.
    The topic you started responding to was people mentioning a very specific suggestion: letting valor buy LFR gear. So either you didn't read before you responded or you are moving the goal posts back to the OP which isn't what you were responding to.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lemonpartyfan View Post
    Character progression also involves gold, reps, and acheeves, not to mention pets and mounts.
    No, no it doesn't. Your character does not increase in power or ability from any of those things directly. Reps and to some extent gold are areas that can contribute to character progression, but ultimately that is because they funnel into loot. It's simply not debatable either. It's the way Blizzard designed the game. They don't put power in achievements. They don't increase your skills by having shiny mounts. None of that is character progression. In fact, most of that can be segregated to account progression of the cosmetic variety at this point since 95% of it is account wide now.

    If Blizzard allowed reputation or achievements to augment your abilities as a player, like putting a new spell behind a meta achievement, then you could say there are other ways to progress. That's just not the design of this game. It would be fun I'm sure, but hard to balance. Nevertheless, not a factor here. You can try and rewrite the argument to suit your repetition, but it doesn't prevent it from being false.\

    Edit: inb4 'But progression is whatever you make it' no, it's what Blizzard design says. There are a myriad of activities to do at end game, but that doesn't make them character progression. Tilling my farm isn't character progression. It's an activity and can funnel into achieving something, but my character isn't advancing because of it.
    BAD WOLF

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