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  1. #201
    Quote Originally Posted by wow View Post
    There was no other talent option then.... Did you even read what you replied to? You seem to not remember cata talents at all yes they made charge stun dr one patch and the same talent that let you use it in combat made the stun longer it was a talent everyone was already taking... Warriors spec'd nothing different as arms as there was nothing else to spec other than going fury or prot....
    So you basically reiterated his point. He isn't saying "warrior spec'd into this instead of that in Cataclysm and it lead to the same problem". He's saying "Blizzard tried this before with making charge stun DR making utterly useless due to stuns dr'ing so fast with how many there are in the game". At least, that's what I think he was getting at.

    I don't think people realize that every melee in the game is going to shit on warriors with this change since all of them move faster than warriors already nevermind with freedom effects. There's a reason it utterly shat on warriors in Cataclysm.
    Quote Originally Posted by High Overlord Saurfang
    "I am he who watches they. I am the fist of retribution. That which does quell the recalcitrant. Dare you defy the Warchief? Dare you face my merciless judgement?"
    i7-860 @2.8GHz | Radeon HD 7770 | 8GB DDR3-1333MHz | Corsair CX 430W |

  2. #202
    The Patient
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    Quote Originally Posted by Korgoth View Post
    Yes, Rogues are more imbalanced then warriors, utility kit is far better with an ability to match every warrior ability in a better way 4, 5 and 6s stuns instead of 1.5,4,4, infinite gap closer with burst of speed, or vertical gap closer with step, synergy is better as well with tricks and prey on the weak acting as a berserker buff for their teammate during burst, high burst on a 1min CD without talent and without giving up CC, yet the playstyle of the class is simply not enjoyable, the constant restealthing, the constant maintaining of short term buffs, to play rogue properly you dont get to stay in the fight, you have to run out, you have to wait to get CC off, you have get your buffs up when needed, its a hassle, Warrior isnt a hassle, yet the Rogue kit when played correctly is superior then warrior's.

    If balancing was on the basis of actual power level, Rogues would be losing Nerve Strike completely, not leaving it at 25%, would be losing Tricks in PVP, and would have a CD on Cheapshot.
    You're inadvertently pointing out that rogues have some large trade offs in their tool-kit, and therefore your comparison is simplistic and inaccurate. If rogues have to leave the fight (among other differences), then your attempted apples to apples comparison of abilities does not work. You can't match rogues ability for ability when you don't have those drawbacks.

  3. #203
    Stood in the Fire Bombino's Avatar
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    if root DR's with hunter's narrow escape, that's a nerf to KFC -_-

    Also, I'm curious what this means "Charge's root will *not* cause creatures to turn and attack you like most roots." taken from front page.

    Just weird

  4. #204
    Quote Originally Posted by Bombino View Post
    Also, I'm curious what this means "Charge's root will *not* cause creatures to turn and attack you like most roots." taken from front page.
    Normally when you root something and you're the only nearby target, it will turn around and attack you until the root effect ends. Even if you're lowest aggro.

  5. #205
    Quote Originally Posted by Bombino View Post
    if root DR's with hunter's narrow escape, that's a nerf to KFC -_-

    Also, I'm curious what this means "Charge's root will *not* cause creatures to turn and attack you like most roots." taken from front page.

    Just weird
    If you charge a yellow mob he won't become hostile right away. Besides that I don't really know. I think the implication was that if a dps warrior rushes in during a dungeon or raid he wouldn't pull the mob; except of course that if it's a red mob it'll become tagged once you're within range anyways which charging the mob would make sure of.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by dekudude View Post
    Normally when you root something and you're the only nearby target, it will turn around and attack you until the root effect ends. Even if you're lowest aggro.
    OOOOH, well that makes sense.
    Quote Originally Posted by High Overlord Saurfang
    "I am he who watches they. I am the fist of retribution. That which does quell the recalcitrant. Dare you defy the Warchief? Dare you face my merciless judgement?"
    i7-860 @2.8GHz | Radeon HD 7770 | 8GB DDR3-1333MHz | Corsair CX 430W |

  6. #206
    Stood in the Fire Bombino's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dekudude View Post
    Normally when you root something and you're the only nearby target, it will turn around and attack you until the root effect ends. Even if you're lowest aggro.
    yes I understand this part. What I don't understand is how it's going to be rooted and ALSO not attack you if there's not something else around. is the mob just gonna be paralyzed from the root or what?

  7. #207
    The Patient
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    Quote Originally Posted by Korgoth View Post
    Yeah because people only play a class because of how well it does in Arena. It cant possibly be that a class that is less powerful yet incredibly more fun has better representation... no that is just way too far out there thinking for you.
    Enough of them do that it's an issue. In the case of rogues and warriors, it's especially blatant. The problem with your argument is it doesn't work when you look at the changes in representation. They are not static. Are you really trying to argue that the massive fluctuations in rogue representation correlate with massively fun and engaging class changes?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Korgoth View Post
    Yeah because people only play a class because of how well it does in Arena. It cant possibly be that a class that is less powerful yet incredibly more fun has better representation... no that is just way too far out there thinking for you.
    Enough of them do that it's an issue. In the case of rogues and warriors, it's especially blatant. The problem with your argument is it doesn't work when you look at the changes in representation. They are not static. Are you really trying to argue that the massive fluctuations in rogue representation correlate with massively fun and engaging class changes?

  8. #208
    Personally I'm rethinking my stance on this change. I feel like removing iconic ( yea I said it ) abilities and effects from classes because you continue to deny the real problems in the game is a disservice to the loyal base.

    If you don't remember when the game started to bank downhill (ignoring that cata was a sharp decline from wotlk) you can have a peak at the dispel change to start.

    Basically... Warrs need a nerf because of general mistakes in development. Failing to acknowledge that leads to balancing changes that make little sense; that's mop.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shahada View Post
    The devs aren't stupid.

  9. #209
    Quote Originally Posted by Exaelitus View Post
    Enough of them do that it's an issue. In the case of rogues and warriors, it's especially blatant. The problem with your argument is it doesn't work when you look at the changes in representation. They are not static. Are you really trying to argue that the massive fluctuations in rogue representation correlate with massively fun and engaging class changes?
    Except there's never been "massive fluctuations in rogue representation" overall. The class remains as the least played class in the game switching places with Warlocks every now and then. The rogue gameplay has, for the most part, just not catered to the average WoW player like that of say, a warrior or paladin.

    If you're talking about "massive fluctuations" as in arena representation, then you really REALLY have to break things down. Note how synergistic a class, what's really changed for the class, has it become easier to play with the changes or have things just been flat out buffed in terms of numbers? All these factors need to be taken into account and when they are, you'll realize that especially for warriors, the massive representation hike was due to the removal of arbitrary skill cap increases AS WELL AS massive talent diversity (greatest any class has ever seen in this game) opening up access to more comps than any class has ever had.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Lulbalance View Post
    Personally I'm rethinking my stance on this change. I feel like removing iconic ( yea I said it ) abilities and effects from classes because you continue to deny the real problems in the game is a disservice to the loyal base.

    If you don't remember when the game started to bank downhill (ignoring that cata was a sharp decline from wotlk) you can have a peak at the dispel change to start.

    Basically... Warrs need a nerf because of general mistakes in development. Failing to acknowledge that leads to balancing changes that make little sense; that's mop.
    I don't normally agree with you but...yup.
    Quote Originally Posted by High Overlord Saurfang
    "I am he who watches they. I am the fist of retribution. That which does quell the recalcitrant. Dare you defy the Warchief? Dare you face my merciless judgement?"
    i7-860 @2.8GHz | Radeon HD 7770 | 8GB DDR3-1333MHz | Corsair CX 430W |

  10. #210
    Quote Originally Posted by Flaks View Post
    At least, that's what I think he was getting at.
    With his post history I doubt it...

    Quote Originally Posted by Korgoth View Post
    Unless you were a complete idiot, in patch 4.06, you spec'd Warbringer as charge stun DR'd with all other stuns. They nerfed charge to appease Warrior QQers, and we all ended up taking WarBringer, which just pissed people off more as they sat in 3s stuns and got blown the fuck up.
    Looks like hes in some other world thinking there was some other talent warriors took because of charge dr'ing... Not what you said
    Last edited by wow; 2014-02-03 at 09:50 PM.

  11. #211
    Rogue is least played class? where is such statistic? I have always had impression that rogue is one of the most played class alongside with paladin and warrior and hunter.

  12. #212
    Quote Originally Posted by Cle View Post
    Rogue is least played class? where is such statistic? I have always had impression that rogue is one of the most played class alongside with paladin and warrior and hunter.
    Should probably look it up. I'll probably link you the stat but rogues and warlocks have competed for the last spot since Vanilla until some time in Cataclysm. Since Cataclysm to now, rogues are the least played class since the warlock revamp.

    Ummm nevermind, I completely forgot about Monks. Yea that's by far the lowest but I can't really consider it since it's such a fresh new class.

    And I shoulda specified I was talking about level 90s only.
    Last edited by Flaks; 2014-02-03 at 09:35 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by High Overlord Saurfang
    "I am he who watches they. I am the fist of retribution. That which does quell the recalcitrant. Dare you defy the Warchief? Dare you face my merciless judgement?"
    i7-860 @2.8GHz | Radeon HD 7770 | 8GB DDR3-1333MHz | Corsair CX 430W |

  13. #213
    Lore
    Blue Poster

    #83 - 2014/02/03 09:26:00 PM

    We're going to revert the Charge and Warbringer changes from the 5.4.7 PTR and make a different change. Here's some context:

    We feel that Warriors are too disruptive vs casters in PvP at the moment. To a certain extent it's intended that it should be more difficult to get casts off if there's a melee DPS sticking to you, but Warriors just have too many options along those lines currently. That's part of the thinking behind the change to Charge: as a root, Charge would not interrupt casting, so it would be useful purely as a gap closer and rage generator, not as a way to lock down a caster.

    We're reverting it because, although we do think it's a good change and something we're likely to revisit in the future, it's a bit too big of an overall change for 5.4.7. There's a bit of a ripple effect here; making Charge a root certainly accomplishes the goal of scaling back Warrior interrupts, but it opens up some secondary issues (such as "what happens when you Charge a target with Hand of Freedom active?") that we'd need some additional time to clear up. Put another way, we wanted to nerf Warriors' ability to disrupt casters, not their mobility, and at this point in time the Charge change would have been a nerf to both.

    So instead, we're making a different change: Pummel and Disrupting Shout will have a 15-second shared cooldown. To be clear: Disrupting Shout will remain at its current 40 second cooldown, but you won't be able to use it within 15 seconds of using Pummel. Likewise, using Disrupting Shout will put Pummel on cooldown.

    We may still come back to the Charge change in Warlords, where all sorts of other changes will have happened (especially to CC) that allow it to make more sense, and we can spend more development and testing time on making sure it doesn't have any unwanted side effects. For now, the shared cooldown on Pummel and Disrupting Shout will fill our original intention of making Warriors just slightly less difficult to cast against.

  14. #214
    Change is getting reverted PTR patch after next:

    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/to...8083?page=5#83

    Scroll down to blue.

    Disrupting shout and pummel will share 15 second internal cd. Good change.

    It's of course freaking stupid as hell that they're even thinking about coming back to such a change later. They need to get it through their thick skulls that making cc for other specs available to arms and fury (or in the case of hunters bm and mm) was just a shitty idea. THAT'S how this problem needs to be addressed, not by changing things that have NEVER needed changing.
    Quote Originally Posted by High Overlord Saurfang
    "I am he who watches they. I am the fist of retribution. That which does quell the recalcitrant. Dare you defy the Warchief? Dare you face my merciless judgement?"
    i7-860 @2.8GHz | Radeon HD 7770 | 8GB DDR3-1333MHz | Corsair CX 430W |

  15. #215
    Pit Lord MrApple's Avatar
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    The warrior QQ echoed across all the realms filling every lake with tears.

    This teaches us one thing. If your class gets nerfed you just go spam the forums with tears and QQ
    and the nerfs will be reverted.

    gg blizz... gg
    Epic!

  16. #216
    HAHA I bet warriors would have preferred the non stunning charge to the shared cool down. Well played blizzard well played.

  17. #217
    Quote Originally Posted by Reveries1 View Post
    HAHA I bet warriors would have preferred the non stunning charge to the shared cool down. Well played blizzard well played.
    Nope. Great change. Should always have been that way anyways. Handicap abilities are terrible. Having a second interrupt to use after you failed with the first one was one of the many things contributing to the low warrior skill floor.

    That said I still think they need to just switch bladestorm and stormbolt so warrior cc is nerfed without touching charge.
    Quote Originally Posted by High Overlord Saurfang
    "I am he who watches they. I am the fist of retribution. That which does quell the recalcitrant. Dare you defy the Warchief? Dare you face my merciless judgement?"
    i7-860 @2.8GHz | Radeon HD 7770 | 8GB DDR3-1333MHz | Corsair CX 430W |

  18. #218
    What is the point of having pummel and distruptive shout if they share cooldown? I would have taken charge change any day

  19. #219
    Brewmaster Caninese's Avatar
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    You'd think that something wearing plate and moving at a high velocity would stun you. Root? Doesn't make much sense.

  20. #220
    Quote Originally Posted by Flaks View Post
    Disrupting shout and pummel will share 15 second internal cd. Good change.
    This is the change that needed to happen warbringer 3sec stun would have been stupid.


    Quote Originally Posted by MrApple View Post
    The warrior QQ echoed across all the realms filling every lake with tears.

    This teaches us one thing. If your class gets nerfed you just go spam the forums with tears and QQ
    and the nerfs will be reverted.

    gg blizz... gg
    Sadly this this is true.

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