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  1. #61
    We'll still have a load screen, but I suppose it's better than two. I am surprised it took them this long to realize this and implement such a minor change... Guess they really don't care about the player experience that much. I know I have been complaining about this since classic(when BGs started having graveyards in them).

  2. #62
    Incoming - another future nostalgia thread to watch out for

    "I remember back when you would wipe and have to wait at a loading screen to get outside of the instance, then run in to the portal for another loading screen... man those times were the best, Blizz why don't you bring that back?"

  3. #63
    Quote Originally Posted by Mortalomena View Post
    I really dont know why they do this, they absolutely doesnt want new players to know where the raids/instances are located?
    If they are already there and wiping in the instance, that means they already got there and know where it is.

  4. #64
    Quote Originally Posted by Aeluron Lightsong View Post
    In fairness he drew the battleground.
    I understand -- but few threads I start make it to a 2nd page of responses, and I don't want this one to get locked for getting hijacked :P

    Quote Originally Posted by Levyan View Post
    I did comment about the thread. In fact, I wrote more about it than you did in the OP. :P
    You created a generalized discussion by not actually saying any opinion or other structure by which to talk about in that OP. If there is something you actually want to speak about, then please....
    Maybe I should have seen it coming, but I didn't foresee what I thought would be a pretty minor and uncontroversial change would wind up in personal attacks getting launched. I figured it'd be a handful of "Cool, no more double loading screens over the course of a night might help us squeeze in an extra attempt" responses before it fell off the first page of threads and was forgotten about.

    In any event, even without priming the pump, as it were, to guide the thread -- personal attacks are always off-topic as a general rule on MMO-C.

    And I did weigh in with responses after the original post ... I understand how folks might feel it detracts from overall game flavor, but considering it's infringing upon a mechanic that actually exists in opposition to the game world's lore / canon / rules, and is solely a gameplay mechanic, it's not a flavor loss I'm worried about -- especially considering we'll be seeing more of the world without being able to fly in current content zones.
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  5. #65
    Quote Originally Posted by Levyan View Post
    I personally like the change. This means that people will not be punished for not having an SSD and/or faster internet. There are still many who have machines that are sub-optimal while still being "new". It is "silver-spoon" thinking to expect that everyone has a rig and setup that can get through load screens in a couple seconds.

    *Kitty gloves off*
    What YOU are doing is a microaggression. You are stereotyping an entire generation and an entire population (in thinking they are all part of that generation) into the same "getting what they want" category. You are using that argument, because you are not getting what you want. The truth is that you are expressing that you do not want QoL changes to the game, because (for you) that lowers the quality of the game.

    All of us who have time to play and talk about video games are privileged. Another truth is that what one person likes about a game is not going to be true for all others and it may easily having nothing to do with being part of a specific group of people.
    Everything you said here was true. That being said I don't agree with the change. It may not be a huge change in itself but I reckon it makes the game lose a bit of it's unique(ness). Everyone knows about "the corpse run" even if they don't play WoW. It's a cute thing and I personally think it should stay (in some way at least). However the double loading screen is indeed redundant. I'm sure there could have been made improvements (thinking that we should run from entrance to our corpse maybe) to it in stead of just removal. Luckily it is still there in the overworld which is what most players experience about WoW anyways.
    I won't miss it... but I didn't mind it either. It felt right being there.

  6. #66
    The Unstoppable Force Aeluron Lightsong's Avatar
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    Like I said, I still think there should be running back to the instance. Just don't have double loading screens.
    Blizzard do not destroy Jaina Proudmoore's character. Make her who she once was, not full of rage and vengeance.,If you are curious about me or about my writing aspirations, feel free to pst me. Paladin-Sorcerer at your service! My Youtube Channel https://www.youtube.com/user/Aeluron Big fanboy of Yrel now. Love her now

  7. #67
    Quote Originally Posted by Levyan View Post
    He's not right though; he's stereotyping all people who like QoL changes as silver-spoon, spoiled children.
    Amusing how you thought I was talking mostly about that. I primarily meant he was right that this removed one more bit of flavor from the game. I do agree with Firefly that people seem to want things with very little effort though.
    Rogue poisons actually had more changes than that even in vanilla: duration, removed on death, removed on entering the instance.
    Attunements were originally "get to this place in this dungeon". Very short and simple. MC was literally just get to the entrance inside BRD and BWL was a short dungeon run quest iirc.
    The TBC attunements were not the original style. Hunters having ammo/quivers, Warlocks having to farm 30 stones (each taking up 1 inventory slot), paladin buffs being 5min duration, etc are all different barriers more to raiding than to normal questing/dungeons/pvp.
    I agree that expecting "10min heroics" fresh at level cap is silly, but I do not feel it has anything to do with these QoL changes.
    Some of those QoL changes have dumbed the game down by removing things that could immerse you, others were fine. For example5 min buffs never made sense, but from an immersion standpoint ammo totally made sense. The issue with things like ammo is that they often just didn't implement ancillary mechanisms very well, e.g. giving a hunter the ability to stack, say, 10k arrows in a slot. Likewise, some of the rogue poison changes made sense (there's no in-world reason for the poison to go away on death/entering the instance) but some didn't (duration was fine, after all a poison is a physical thing that would wear off after awhile).

    It's not really about each change, it's about the fact that the direction Blizzard has taken isn't just to correct silly crap like 5 min buffs or to add things that made a mechanism annoying (arrows taking tons of bag space). Instead, they've take the cheap way out and progressively removed the little details that make the game feel more alive and distinct from other games. This particular change doesn't seem a big deal either way but it's the kind of thing I wish they'd ignore if it (and other things like it) introduce any delay to shipping WoD. We already spawn close to the raid entrance so all this really does is avoid double load screen. On any reasonably modern computer those are 5-10 seconds and, for the people for whom a load screen takes a long time... upgrade.

    About the change, though... it's one thing to have this happen if you don't release and then the raid wipes. But I assume if you release BEFORE the wipe it will work like today where you spawn outside the raid, otherwise you could die, release, spawn inside and run back to the fight (like you can in 5 mans).
    Last edited by clevin; 2014-02-01 at 07:59 PM.

  8. #68
    The Unstoppable Force Aeluron Lightsong's Avatar
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    Except Clevin he was stereotyping and the way he portrayed himself was like he had a superiority complex. I don't disagree with him personally. I just think the *Silver Platter* nonsense was rude and unnecessary at this point. This is probably the one *minor* thing that I would be ok with having


    However the two loading screens we can do without.
    Blizzard do not destroy Jaina Proudmoore's character. Make her who she once was, not full of rage and vengeance.,If you are curious about me or about my writing aspirations, feel free to pst me. Paladin-Sorcerer at your service! My Youtube Channel https://www.youtube.com/user/Aeluron Big fanboy of Yrel now. Love her now

  9. #69
    This is amazing! I have a computer running everything on ultra with an SSD, so my loading screens are like 0.2 sec, but we have two people in the guild running on calculators, so it'll improve our raiding a bit.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by urasim View Post
    We'll still have a load screen, but I suppose it's better than two. I am surprised it took them this long to realize this and implement such a minor change... Guess they really don't care about the player experience that much. I know I have been complaining about this since classic(when BGs started having graveyards in them).
    It's in the same area, so that'll already be somewhat lodad. The loading screen will be half as short, and even shorter if you already had view distance set to max.

  10. #70
    Quote Originally Posted by Firefly33 View Post
    Well, would not say dumbing the game down, but this game is losing flavor with every patch. All these small "stupid" things that seemingly does not matter is what gives this game its unique taste.

    Personally I hope that you atleast end up in Ghost Form inside the raid when you release and then have to ressurect either by waiting or running back to the boss you wiped on.
    I hope it is Ghost form. Always hated bad random deaths to elevators and such

  11. #71
    Quote Originally Posted by clevin View Post
    Amusing how you thought I was talking mostly about that. I primarily meant he was right that this removed one more bit of flavor from the game. I do agree with Firefly that people seem to want things with very little effort though.
    The "flavor" argument was addressed in the rest of the post. If you want immersion to play in, I would say that loading screens break immersion. They are screens that break the flow of the game for the player and break the player's attention away from what is going on within the game. Depending on the quality of your system, this has varying impact.

    I agree that things like ammo and poisons having "physical" requirements are more realistic, but "magic" can explain that too. perhaps implementing something like class-specific extra bag slots might have been a better. WoW is a high-magic fantasy setting, not specifically medieval, so realistic answers are not strictly needed. "Magic" could explain how rogues making poisons and hunters make arrows and perhaps Blizzard could have added ways in-game of explaining it this way (example for hunter: passive spell effect: The hunter magically created an arrow out of thin air on each shot).

    A way to keep immersion for this change would be for spirit healers to be located at the entrance of instances, like in a BGs.

  12. #72
    The 30-second timer on the spirit healer res could wind up being longer than the additional loading screen ... hrm
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  13. #73
    Quote Originally Posted by Levyan View Post
    The "flavor" argument was addressed in the rest of the post. If you want immersion to play in, I would say that loading screens break immersion. They are screens that break the flow of the game for the player and break the player's attention away from what is going on within the game. Depending on the quality of your system, this has varying impact.

    I agree that things like ammo and poisons having "physical" requirements are more realistic, but "magic" can explain that too. perhaps implementing something like class-specific extra bag slots might have been a better. WoW is a high-magic fantasy setting, not specifically medieval, so realistic answers are not strictly needed. "Magic" could explain how rogues making poisons and hunters make arrows and perhaps Blizzard could have added ways in-game of explaining it this way (example for hunter: passive spell effect: The hunter magically created an arrow out of thin air on each shot).
    Had WoW started with poisons and ammo being explained that way it wouldn't be an issue. It's the idea of changing from one mechanism to a *simpler* one that's the issue. Note that none of these changes add complexity or even keep the same complexity but just work differently. They all make things simpler, easier, dumber.

    Loading screens don't help immersion, no but then to me they don't hurt it much either - you're going through a portal after all... . But then I'm not arguing mostly about this change. I don't think it's a huge deal and I'm worried that they're spending time on tiny crap like this that has a small gain (1x screen vs 2x) but that adds testing and bug fixing. This single change? Not a big deal. 10 or 20 minor changes like this? Could be.

  14. #74
    Scarab Lord Raugnaut's Avatar
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    Eh, its not like we have the old, old ghost runs anymore. I don't think theres been a major corpse run since... well, classic really.
    Anyone ever notice how the sun seems to shine silverish now? Didn't it used to shine goldish? PM me if you've noticed this.
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  15. #75
    Quote Originally Posted by Gliff View Post
    I don't see any reason this is a bad thing but I also don't see any way it improves the game other then only 1 load screen.

    Inb4 people crying about how this dumbs down the game....
    Decreases the amount of people, especially in 5 mans and LFRs, who sometimes can't find their way back to the instance.

    The double load bar also makes server issues and realm connection problems worse at times. We've seen this happen a lot over the last month where the servers have problems and can't can't process players between their realm server (where they get kicked to after releasing) and the instance server. You end up having players wipe, have to release, then be unable to raid because their realm server is down and can't log back in to the game or go to zone back in to the raid and crash at the loading bar boss as the server fails to transfer them to the instance servers.

    With this change, as long as the instance servers are stable (often the server with the least amount of issues) you're guaranteed to be able to continue your raid after starting without worry about the realm servers (tied with authentication for most issues) being wonky.
    Last edited by Bullettime; 2014-02-01 at 08:55 PM.
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  16. #76
    The Unstoppable Force Aeluron Lightsong's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by clevin View Post
    Had WoW started with poisons and ammo being explained that way it wouldn't be an issue. It's the idea of changing from one mechanism to a *simpler* one that's the issue. Note that none of these changes add complexity or even keep the same complexity but just work differently. They all make things simpler, easier, dumber.

    Loading screens don't help immersion, no but then to me they don't hurt it much either - you're going through a portal after all... . But then I'm not arguing mostly about this change. I don't think it's a huge deal and I'm worried that they're spending time on tiny crap like this that has a small gain (1x screen vs 2x) but that adds testing and bug fixing. This single change? Not a big deal. 10 or 20 minor changes like this? Could be.
    The Ammo thingie IMO isn't necessary. I can't speak for poisons specifically.
    Blizzard do not destroy Jaina Proudmoore's character. Make her who she once was, not full of rage and vengeance.,If you are curious about me or about my writing aspirations, feel free to pst me. Paladin-Sorcerer at your service! My Youtube Channel https://www.youtube.com/user/Aeluron Big fanboy of Yrel now. Love her now

  17. #77
    Next week we gonna have atleast 3 threads complaining about this fix. How this is making the game so much easier and its nothing like it was in the old days of glorius shitnilla

  18. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by Karlzone View Post
    It's useful for quite a few strange instances where no one actually knows where the entrance is. Other than that I think it's a tad sad. As Firefly said that was just "flavor". Everyone knows the WoW spirit resurrection even if they don't play it.
    Yeah, I would not want to have to explain to someone how to walk back to Hellfire or Coilfang. ("How do I swim as a ghost ...? I can't go down into the water?")

    What was truly awful was when your corpse tombstone appeared at a point relative to the entrance rather than at the entrance, making the minimap almost completely useless for finding the entrance. But I think that was changed at the start of Cataclysm.

  19. #79
    Best xpac confirmed.

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  20. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raugnaut View Post
    Eh, its not like we have the old, old ghost runs anymore. I don't think theres been a major corpse run since... well, classic really.
    Coilfang is still there. BWL, sort of. (I forget, I think you can fly from Thorium point GY now ...?) But most of the bizarre corpse runs in Blackrock are gone or nerfed now.

    Not sure if Maraudon still requires much of a walk.

    The good old days of Horde having to walk into town and into a hidden passage in a building to get to Deadmine, ah too bad. Early in Cataclysm, some Horde players were bugged and had to do the old school walk back anyway instead of rezzing at the shiny new portal graveyard ... I was one of them. Made a tedious instance extra tedious.

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