Goodbye to double load screen on raid wipe ?

[Hainiryuun]

Sounds great. Won't have to worry about all the people that we're waiting on to pull, because they're fighting to blue bar boss -.-

[Ryuda]

Just because the game has gotten better does not mean that every decision has been an improvement. I also do not really believe the game got better in MoP compared to WotLK / Cata.

It is not about the game being dumbed down, corpse running is nothing hard. Not every inconvienience in the game is a bad thing, some are needed to improve the experience.

The game moving from an interactive experience to a factory production line of streamlined content, it loses flavor. A change like this in itself is not huge, but coupled with a dozen other changes it does make a huge impact on the atmosphere of the game. This particular change is only a small taste of flavor, however I strongly believe it is the little thing that matters. Most major feautures is present in all games, it is the small things that makes a game stand out.

Corpserunning after a wipe has been a part of this game has been a part of this game since forever. Removing that would remove that part of the game. I do not understand how you can state that it would not lose flavor, it is insanely obvious that it would. The fact that corpse run is even a term is proof to that matter.

If this change would imply that you instantly spawn at the entrance when you release, I would be against it. If it means that you will spawn inside the instance as a ghost to prevent double loading screen and having you either getting spirit ressed or having you to run to a spot in the raid to res, I would be fine with it.

Except, true corpse running (you die in the overworld) is staying, dying in instances has, with the obvious exception of a few, been more about running back inside the instance, especially since cata, where most dungeons were given GYs literally right outside the entrence, as someone said, look at raids like BWD, BoT or SoO, where the graveyards are within a 5 second flight of the raid entrance, which leads to nothing but 2 pointless load screens, I persoanlly think, if the tech was there, this probably would have been done long ago.

That said, in a semi-related tone, I would like to see this met with the removal of "zoning in to a predetermined checkpoint with no way to get back to an earlier part of the raid" and the return of 2 way transporters, now SoO isn't too bad for this, since for the most part, if you need to repair (assuming no engi), you can just hearth and fly back in like 20 secs, but at some bosses in ToT, it was a pain in the ass if you had to repair, although there were repair NPCs right outside of the instance, being stuck on Dark Animus really sucked.

[Deleted]

I can understand the "flavor" argument. Maybe this isn't the best example of it, but I'm sympathetic to the notion of it being chipped away at slowly.

I completely agree that this change is not the biggest deal in the world, but at some point you gotta put your foot down, where should it stop?

There has already been so many huge changes that only the small changes remain really.

[Gliff]

Just because the game has gotten better does not mean that every decision has been an improvement. I also do not really believe the game got better in MoP compared to WotLK / Cata.

It is not about the game being dumbed down, corpse running is nothing hard. Not every inconvienience in the game is a bad thing, some are needed to improve the experience.

The game moving from an interactive experience to a factory production line of streamlined content, it loses flavor. A change like this in itself is not huge, but coupled with a dozen other changes it does make a huge impact on the atmosphere of the game. This particular change is only a small taste of flavor, however I strongly believe it is the little thing that matters. Most major feautures is present in all games, it is the small things that makes a game stand out.

Corpserunning after a wipe has been a part of this game has been a part of this game since forever. Removing that would remove that part of the game. I do not understand how you can state that it would not lose flavor, it is insanely obvious that it would. The fact that corpse run is even a term is proof to that matter.

If this change would imply that you instantly spawn at the entrance when you release, I would be against it. If it means that you will spawn inside the instance as a ghost to prevent double loading screen and having you either getting spirit ressed or having you to run to a spot in the raid to res, I would be fine with it.

Please explain to me how corpserunning is an interesting part of the game? Blizzard removes pointless mechanics and mechanics that are not compelling.

When they remove fun mechanics I will have an issue with it. When they remove shit like corpserunning I don't care at all.

[Deleted]

Except, true corpse running (you die in the overworld) is staying, dying in instances has, with the obvious exception of a few, been more about running back inside the instance, especially since cata, where most dungeons were given GYs literally right outside the entrence, as someone said, look at raids like BWD, BoT or SoO, where the graveyards are within a 5 second flight of the raid entrance, which leads to nothing but 2 pointless load screens, I persoanlly think, if the tech was there, this probably would have been done long ago.

Agreed, raid corpse running has not been the best. In fact, spawning as a ghost inside the raid and having to run back to the boss where you wiped, or close proximity would probably be a much much better design.

Those 5 second runs is still something you associate with the raid. I can still fly into BWD blindfolded after a wipe. Those pointless loading screens are still a part of your experience, aswell as serving to magnify the stick of a wipe to enhance the carrot of a kill.

- - - Updated - - -

Please explain to me how corpserunning is an interesting part of the game? Blizzard removes pointless mechanics and mechanics that are not compelling.

When they remove fun mechanics I will have an issue with it. When they remove shit like corpserunning I don't care at all.

Why should the "reward" of failing be fun? If you die, you should not be rewarded. Not everything in a game has to be fun. When some things are boring, it enhances the fun experiences in the game and keep you interested in a game longer. It also motivates players to improve themselves.

Die - Get to run back to your corpse
Dont want to run back to your corpse? - Dont die

Fairly simple.

It is kinda the same argument that without bad there would not be good, bad defines good, in the same sense there would be no fun without boring stuff, boring defines fun.

But I guess we are seeing the result of the new generation of silver platter kids now, wanting everything served for them.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

But I guess we are seeing the result of the new generation of silver platter kids now, wanting everything served for them.

And this is where people will ignore you. It reeks of arrogance.

[Ryuda]

Agreed, raid corpse running has not been the best. In fact, spawning as a ghost inside the raid and having to run back to the boss where you wiped, or close proximity would probably be a much much better design.

Those 5 second runs is still something you associate with the raid. I can still fly into BWD blindfolded after a wipe. Those pointless loading screens are still a part of your experience, aswell as serving to magnify the stick of a wipe to enhance the carrot of a kill.

That sounds like over-analyzing or over-glorifying, When I think back to H BoT/BWD progression, I think about the boss fights, the trash to some extent, the raid group I was with at the time, the loot I got (or didn't), finally getting the kill after x pulls. I don't think of the flavor added by having an unnecessary second load screen. I never thought "We need to kill it this time, or I'll get 2 more load screens"

That said, running back in-raid as a ghost would be nice, a nice little speed boost for the indoor runs (especially for me, since i can already roll while dead)

[Deleted]

And this is where people will ignore you. It reeks of arrogance.

Yeah. People have a tendancy of not liking the cold hard truth and chosing to ignore it. I do not mind really. Those people are "lost" anyway. Will probably turn out fine once they get out into the real world and try to build a career and suddenly not everything goes their way.

[Jester Joe]

True but I still don't mind running back. That's just me. I'll probably get used to it.

I really don't mind either, just I can see why they'd do this.

Although dying outside of a instance should keep the ghost run (And possibly add more little hidden stuff while dead, it would be cool, like how they've had that quest you can only accept while dead, and the shrine dedicated to I forget who that you can only see while dead)

Yeah. People have a tendancy of not liking the cold hard truth and chosing to ignore it. I do not mind really. Those people are "lost" anyway. Will probably turn out fine once they get out into the real world and try to build a career and suddenly not everything goes their way.

Your opinion, not everything in a game affects how people act in real life. Features that make a game easier and more forgiving doesn't mean the person is going to expect that in real life.

[Deleted]

That sounds like over-analyzing or over-glorifying, When I think back to H BoT/BWD progression, I think about the boss fights, the trash to some extent, the raid group I was with at the time, the loot I got (or didn't), finally getting the kill after x pulls. I don't think of the flavor added by having an unnecessary second load screen. I never thought "We need to kill it this time, or I'll get 2 more load screens"

That said, running back in-raid as a ghost would be nice, a nice little speed boost for the indoor runs (especially for me, since i can already roll while dead)

Of course not, as I said several times already, it is a minor detail, but it is a detail. I have not been stating that the corpse run is the most memorable thing ever, but it still contributes to the overall experience.

[Gliff]

Why should the "reward" of failing be fun? If you die, you should not be rewarded. Not everything in a game has to be fun. When some things are boring, it enhances the fun experiences in the game and keep you interested in a game longer. It also motivates players to improve themselves.

Die - Get to run back to your corpse
Dont want to run back to your corpse? - Dont die

Fairly simple.

It is kinda the same argument that without bad there would not be good, bad defines good, in the same sense there would be no fun without boring stuff, boring defines fun.

But I guess we are seeing the result of the new generation of silver platter kids now, wanting everything served for them.

Okie dokie. The 3 seconds it takes to fly from the graveyard to the instance makes the game more fun because you enjoy the other stuff more.....

I can't argue with someone who thinks that.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

Yeah. People have a tendancy of not liking the cold hard truth and chosing to ignore it. I do not mind really. Those people are "lost" anyway. Will probably turn out fine once they get out into the real world and try to build a career and suddenly not everything goes their way.

More arrogance.

[Deleted]

More arrogance.

That is your point of view.
My point of view is more denial.

Sadly those two mind sets will never match.

I do not care to put on my kitty gloves to make people get a false sense of feeling better about themselves. I have no problem telling the cold truth. If that is arrogance, than so be it. In my opinion that just shows weakness in character if you get offended that easily.

[Ryuda]

But I guess we are seeing the result of the new generation of silver platter kids now, wanting everything served for them.

You seem to be under the impression that this somehow is preventing people from dying/corpserunning.

There will still be internal run-backs (which more often than not, are twice as long as the run-back to the instance). Whether this is done in ghost or "real" form is irrelevant to most players.

This change is in no way "serving" things to anyone, it a minor convenience to most, and a major convenience to those with systems that cause them to have 5 min. loading screens (and those in their raid groups >.>).

That said, (and I'm probably reading too much into it at this point), this could be a start of a good change for LFR, moving it away from "real raiding" structure, i.e. possibly being able to run back to the boss fight.

[Gliff]

Yeah. People have a tendancy of not liking the cold hard truth and chosing to ignore it. I do not mind really. Those people are "lost" anyway. Will probably turn out fine once they get out into the real world and try to build a career and suddenly not everything goes their way.

Lul wat...

[Deleted]

Okie dokie. The 3 seconds it takes to fly from the graveyard to the instance makes the game more fun because you enjoy the other stuff more.....

I can't argue with someone who thinks that.

The fact that you seem the be so adamant about hating those 3 seconds is proof that it is working like intended.

Corpse running is not designed for you to enjoy it. It is designed to be a punishment for failing and an encouragement not to fail more.

[Jester Joe]

That is your point of view.
My point of view is more denial.

Sadly those two mind sets will never match.

I do not care to put on my kitty gloves to make people get a false sense of feeling better about themselves. I have no problem telling the cold truth. If that is arrogance, than so be it. In my opinion that just shows weakness in character if you get offended that easily.

It's called pessimistic if you think it's the "cold truth" I would say, and someone saying you're being arrogant doesn't mean they're offended, in fact they said you were arrogant without you even being arrogant to them at that point.

The fact that you seem the be so adamant about hating those 3 seconds is proof that it is working like intended.

Corpse running is not designed for you to enjoy it. It is designed to be a punishment for failing and an encouragement not to fail more.

And it is, but like said, with these raids, which is what it's affecting, it's literally to the verge of pointlessness. 3 seconds is annoying not because "UGH THAT'S 3 MORE SECONDS OUTSIDE OF PLAYING" it's "This is so pointless, it was barely even a punishment".

[Ryuda]

That is your point of view.
My point of view is more denial.

Sadly those two mind sets will never match.

I do not care to put on my kitty gloves to make people get a false sense of feeling better about themselves. I have no problem telling the cold truth. If that is arrogance, than so be it. In my opinion that just shows weakness in character if you get offended that easily.

So people don't agree with your opinion, and you feel the need to place yourself above them through some outside means, which, in no way, is related to the topic at hand. That's not the truth (especially given that you have no proof), that's actually pretty close to a dictionary definition of arrogance, and the point at which I finish with this thread.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

Yeah I love instant gratification @_@


You got me. Believe what you want.

[Ryuda]

The fact that you seem the be so adamant about hating those 3 seconds is proof that it is working like intended.

Corpse running is not designed for you to enjoy it. It is designed to be a punishment for failing and an encouragement not to fail more.

3 seconds of running back < waiting for that one dude in a 25 man team with the 7 min. load screens.