Dungeon Deserter is awful.

[Kioshi]

The debuff is more aimed toward fixing the potential problem of people leaving just because they random an instance they don't like or a raid that is already in progress. If the group is too much for you, just get yourself kicked.

Getting punish for wanting a full run as compare to one that is haft done is dumb. Blizzard needs to bring back the Dragon soul way of seeing how many bosses are down.

[Siri]

Getting punish for wanting a full run as compare to one that is haft done is dumb. Blizzard needs to bring back the Dragon soul way of seeing how many bosses are down.

No, changing it so you can't see how many bosses are down was pretty much the best thing they could do. Before that change LFR had a much lower completion rate because people would just cancel and requeue if they got an in-progress run. If you want a full run you queue twice.

[darkwarrior42]

So the short version of this thread seems to be that you are not allowed to make any mistakes or oversights, ever, and if you do you're a horrible person who should be dragged out into the street and shot so that the rest of the WoW community doesn't have to deal with anything short of perfection.

[Assumi]

I don't get why people have so little patience any more. I joined WoW in around July of 2005, and in all that time I can recall I have left precisely 1 dungeon before it was finished (or the rest of the members left) and that was because of something IRL coming up and me having to go, not because of the run being bad. I've sat through 3 hour dungeons teaching people how to do the fights and have never once had an issue of "Oh my god, woe is me, this group died once I better leave".

Nothing your described in the OP was even remotely close to some unavoidable issue that you needed to quit over. You chose to quit because you had zero pateince and ate a pitiful 15 minute debuff for it. Big deal.

[Count Zero]

Unless you're saying that you're being an asshole in dungeons and expect people to act favourably to you in turn then no, you missed it. If that is indeed what you're doing I have a very hard time understanding why you think people should do something good for you when you clearly deserve nothing of the sort. If you're looking at a TINY scale, sure, it affects other people (But then again, only if the person wanting to get kicked is a dps, a healer/tank doing it doesn't slow anyone down because people filling those roles aren't waiting for queues in 5mans anyway). On a reasonable scale it affects pretty much no one and certainly way less people than toxic behaviour does.

"You don't agree with me, so clearly you don't understand"

Ok

[Siri]

"You don't agree with me, so clearly you don't understand"

Ok

If that's what you got from that then yeah, you not understanding is exactly what is happening here.

[Count Zero]

If that's what you got from that then yeah, you not understanding is exactly what is happening here.

Just because you can't / refuse to see it, doesn't mean it's not there.

You said staying enables their behavior; I countered that nothing you do is going to have an effect on their behavior, positively or negatively. Of the options available -- shrug it off and finish the run, afk / ask to be kicked (which may or may not get you kicked), drop and take the deserter debuff -- the one you advocate for is the only one with the potential to negatively impact others, by slowing down the run and artificially clogging up the queue for folks in line behind you who could have gotten in and out.

You don't want to take the debuff -- I get that. But you've decided that you not getting that debuff is more important than letting someone else take your spot and getting their VP, with a very nebulous justification that staying in the group enables their bad behavior. But you don't agree with my assertion that staying, afking, or dropping all have negligible effect on the mindset of a troll (if anything I'd think asking to be kicked would be the greatest reward for their behavior -- proving they've provoked a negative response), so apparently I am missing the point.

[Krommm]

Deserter is fine. The real issue is turds who are so awful that have 3 hour to 2+ days kick protection, because they are so awful they are kicked at any possible time.

[Val the Moofia Boss]

Yes, the system's flawed. Nothing can be done at the moment to fix it of everything. Best thing to do is simply right click their names and ignore them.They can't kick you for the first 15 minutes (which dungeons usually finish up at) or while in a fight.

[Seditian]

Yes, the system's flawed. Nothing can be done at the moment to fix it of everything. Best thing to do is simply right click their names and ignore them.They can't kick you for the first 15 minutes (which dungeons usually finish up at) or while in a fight.

Yes, the system is flawed. Flawed as in not giving deserter for 24h like people who started this thread.

[Airwaves]

I don't see why you are qq the tank not holding agro. You could do those 5mans with 5 dps... In fact you could do every 5man in the game with 5 dps now days.

[Siri]

Just because you can't / refuse to see it, doesn't mean it's not there.

You said staying enables their behavior; I countered that nothing you do is going to have an effect on their behavior, positively or negatively. Of the options available -- shrug it off and finish the run, afk / ask to be kicked (which may or may not get you kicked), drop and take the deserter debuff -- the one you advocate for is the only one with the potential to negatively impact others, by slowing down the run and artificially clogging up the queue for folks in line behind you who could have gotten in and out.

You don't want to take the debuff -- I get that. But you've decided that you not getting that debuff is more important than letting someone else take your spot and getting their VP, with a very nebulous justification that staying in the group enables their bad behavior. But you don't agree with my assertion that staying, afking, or dropping all have negligible effect on the mindset of a troll (if anything I'd think asking to be kicked would be the greatest reward for their behavior -- proving they've provoked a negative response), so apparently I am missing the point.

If everyone refused to partake in the shit it would stop. Just because one person refusing to go along doesn't have an effect on it it doesn't mean it is any less enabling. What you're essentially saying is that drug dealers don't enable addiction because if one stopped people would still do it. Suggesting that one just ignore it when people act like idiots is essentially why the communities in multiplayer games turn to shit, because people let them. I already addressed the "it affects people outside the group", there are so many groups created every day that on a grand scale it affects no one, if it's a tank/healer it has even less of an effect and absolutely no effect for the one of the two that is the most in demand.

I also did present an option to you not getting it. Either you're not getting it or you deserved it happening to you because that's the only way you could ever come across it. Seeing as you're saying the exact same thing I already responded to as if I didn't already answer it I'm going to guess it's the former. Unfortunately that would make my whole post pointless because it won't matter how many times you have something explained to you. In light of recent discoveries this is my last response to you.

[Deleted]

^ That selfish, childish attitude is why deserter exists in the first place. Leaving a group hurts them generally, especially if its a healer or a tank.

You don't have to become BFFs with everyone you run with but you should at least be respectful of everyone's time and not waste it without a good reason. If everyone did this, the game would be a lot better place. But with people like you going around saying "im only out for me, i dont care about anyone else" that is the toxic behavior everyone is refering to.

How is that Selfish and childish? The person is actually entitled to his own form of fun if he pays for it.

It is only common decensy to try and care for others - But if they perform sub-par or are random players to you, you don't owe them any recognition.

You can't owe someone you don't know recognition - Also, Childish is not a valid insult to throw at X thing.

- - - Updated - - -

Suggesting that one just ignore it when people act like idiots is essentially why the communities in multiplayer games turn to shit, because people let them.

You are actually not responsible for another players behavior and nor can you change it even if you want to.

But good try at psuedo-political arguments.

[IKT]

leveling in dungeons was a toxic horrible place to be

I still remember tanking some mobs, my hp got down to like <5% and I went to heal myself the healer blamed me for dying because i went out of bear stance, not like don't go out of bear stance, but you fucking fail tank you are fucking terrible you don't go out of bear stance.

So I quit and I got another dungeon.

This was with a guild mate of the previous healers, who was also a healer, but this time I died, and he said it was my fault for tanking to many mobs, you fucking fail tank, you are fucking terrible. So I quit again and didn't play for a week or 2, then came back and continued leveling via dungeons like normal and everyone was happy.

There appears to be a high ratio of toxic players in low level dungeons.

[Seditian]

How is that Selfish and childish? The person is actually entitled to his own form of fun if he pays for it.

You're right. But he shouldn't whine about a deserter debuff, that's specifically there for people like him: slacking, bad and annoying people.

[Siri]

You are actually not responsible for another players behavior and nor can you change it even if you want to.

But good try at psuedo-political arguments.

If the community as a whole shunned the people who behaved that way people wouldn't behave that way (or would go do it somewhere else). There are online communities that do that and it works perfectly. Just because it's a virtual environment it doesn't mean real life isn't applicable.

[Extremity]

This is a classic case of "Do no wrong" syndrome which is infecting the population of most MMOs these days. I feel like the deserter debuff protects me from people like you and I like it. Had you decided it was prudent to be bothered by the game long enough to know what role you were going in with, the 2nd wipe wouldn't have happened because you would've had the mana to deal with it. Aside from that, it's awfully pretentious of you to expect people to forgive you of your over sight of your assigned roll while you lack the courtesy to overlook the tanks oversight of your mana, which is as it turns out is NOT accompanied by a giant box pop up with a giant role icon.

You engaged in the talks and allowed misunderstanding and oversight to drive you away from the group, which was only a result of the group having lost patience with you due to a self admitted mistake - how understanding and patient do you expect others to be with you when you yourself can't return the favor?. An adult would have ignored the banter, simply apologized again for not having mana from the re-spec and tried marking targets on the next pull to assist the tank in doing a better job because its unreasonable to believe low level characters are all seasoned multi-alt veterans of the game. The deserter debuff prevents you from ruining another group for 30 minutes.

Here here!

[Deleted]

I can't stand when people do this. I've seen people sit there and say "kick me" for like an entire dungeon run. Would have been faster to help clear.

It's just the nature of it all.

Instead of doing anything that actually solves issues - people seek reasons to blame and justify.

Idiocy if you ask me.

[Dristereau]

Whilst leveling, people in Dungeons are plain dumb. I've been tanking on an Alt Druid less than a week ago and had the Monk Healer saying he had aggro and complaining constantly. In reality, the only thing that was getting aggro besides me was the Ret with RF on who refuses to turn it off. Anyways, all the DPS died on the Monk Boss in Scarlet Monastery and I decided to leave given the Healer seemed to be ready to rant again.

For the future, my attitude is going to be you pull it, you tank it. Also I think I may turn off instance chat whilst in leveling dungeons.

Anyways, I think Dungeon Deserter should be at least an Hour, same with BG Deserter. Also, what Tank? I had a friend who recently soloed most Dungeons as Prot Paladin from 72-80, and another two who went in as Ret Paladin and Disc Priest and did Gun'drak. Anyways for future reference pay more attention. Then they won't have reason to complain as much.

[Deleted]

If the community as a whole shunned the people who behaved that way people wouldn't behave that way (or would go do it somewhere else). There are online communities that do that and it works perfectly. Just because it's a virtual environment it doesn't mean real life isn't applicable.

Good luck with doing that in this large of a community where people pay for their own game.

Pulling anecdotal arguments on Non-specified communities shows nothing to realism or applicability.

It's Idealism at best, naive at worst.