Why free 90 and 90 boost is NOT pay to win at all

[Deleted]

The content Blizzard (and most sane people) care about is WoD content. The boost makes WoD content available to new players, instead of having to drudge through 90 levels of content that they aren't interested in. Completely logical.

Dont try and suggest this is for the benefit of players and the game - if it was then it would be free of charge.

[Kezuma]

Exactly. You are winning nothing. People just butthurt based on stupid principle.

please read Elian post above you , is more or less spot on , now if u cant understand that when it comes to a race from lvl 1-100 in WoD with a new character or a new player he will always lose to a person that will do 90-100 lvl (and if that is not pay2win my friend i still dont know how to put it so u can understand)
as for ppl just butthurt based on stupid principle well by the looks of your posts in this entire thread any1 who is not on the same page as u in your narrow mind is butthurt.
Please try to get out from that cave where u;re now and understand the pay 2 win concept is larger than e.g. pay for gladiator title or pay for full heroic gear , pay for lvl 90 out of 100 is just like that, u dont gain the gear and the titles and whatever but u do gain ALOT of time to help you get those way ahead the lvl 1

[Ielenia]

let's say
1 player A and B buy the game at the same time
2 player A decided to buy a boosted lvl 90 and the player B does not.
3 player A hits lvl 100 while player B hits lvl 70.
4 player A gets a full set of pre raid gear by doing Heroic dungeons player B is still at lvl 85 Wow, he must be the luckiest SOB to get all his good pre-raid gear in the first drop from all bosses.
5 player A gets into raiding. player B hits lvl 90
6 Player A gets full raid gear. Player B hits lvl 100 start doing heroic dungeons Oh, wow.. really, what an a-hole 'Player A' to get all the raid drops for himself and not distribute it to the raid.... also, they managed to clear more than half of a raid tier in... a week? IMPRESSIVE!!
7 player A defeats all the bosses, Player B acquires all the Heroic dungeon gear in order to get into raiding. Wow... full raid tier clearing in less than a month?
8: Player A is farming , Player B is stuck and he is having trouble getting into raiding because nobody wants a H dungeon geared guy Wow, so much elitism in that server in the first month already? What server are you on, so I make sure I never set foot there, please?
9: player A gets into patch 6.1 on the patch day, player B finds a group to raid patch 6.0. Wrong. Player B will be into patch 6.1 at the same time as Player A because there is no attunement. Argument invalid.

and you know how the rest goes. if it's not pay to win i don't know what it is
it's like a race and you know who is wining this race.

It's not pay to win. It's simply the latest target for whiners.

[Findus707]

"How free 90 or paid 90 is not pay to win."
You won't learn how to play or how to set up your action bars, you won't be able to win in PvP or PvE, cause they will kick you out of both.

End of Discussion.

[Chaosturn]

You can never "win WoW" no matter what you do, so in your opinion it's impossible for pay2win to exist in WoW?
Pay2win is not about winning the entire game, it's about buying an ingame advantage for real money. Which instant lvl 90 clearly is.

No, it isn't at all. There's a huge difference between pay to SKIP, and pay to "win". You haven't won anything by reaching/buying 90, you've just skipped old content which an 8 year old can complete on his own, solely using auto attack. Paying to skip that content is not an advantage over anyone, it's a catchup mechanic if anything.
Even if they would start selling 496 gear on the store today it would still be pay to skip the timeless isle grind. Still have to do lfr/flex to be considered by a raiding guild, and everyone's gear is reset in the next expansion.
If you could pay to get an extra action button that one shots any given boss, I would consider it to be pay to win.

[Richardbro]

It's only pay to win if your greatest achievement in-game is getting to max level.

[Master Guns]

Riddle me this: Why does it bother you or have ANY effect on you that someone did bypass leveling and you chose not to? In what realm does that do ANYTHING to you, or effect you? You won't even know about it. It won't even blip on your radar.

You are against something that effects no one but your pride because you're too broke or don't want to do it. Nothing else. Game changes = none.

[Sparky_b]

Winning is subjective, nobody is going to come to another person's terms on what "winning" is. But, buying the boost is buying power.

[Janaa]

You can never "win WoW" no matter what you do, so in your opinion it's impossible for pay2win to exist in WoW?
Pay2win is not about winning the entire game, it's about buying an ingame advantage for real money. Which instant lvl 90 clearly is.

How is it an advantage if everyone gets it? What percentage of players do you think are going to keep paying an active subscription who aren't upgrading to WOD? And of those who aren't, how many do you think believe they're going to have a competitive chance in level 90 gear against players in level 94 dungeon/crafting gear?

I love the leveling experience but couldn't care less if everyone who buys WOD gets an instant level 90. As soon as WOD hits a level 90 is useful for nothing. It's a time saving, that's all, and it's a time saving that everyone gets. If you don't want to level another toon, then it doesn't affect you either way.

It makes exactly zero difference to you if you BG against someone who already had a level 90 mage or just insta-created a level 90 mage. In fact, I'd much rather be playing against the insta-mage cause they're going to SUCK.

It's only "pay to win" to the same kind of people who think GearScore is actually an important measure of somebody's ability.

[wrathblade]

the PROBLEM is that ppl that bought a level 90 have no idea how to play the class the picked...

imagine a person buying a level 90 druid.
the spec it resto and get some healing gear.

next thing you know your dying over and over because the healer doesn't know jack about using a resto druid.

also when ppl are able to buy a level 90 it's also taking fun out of the game.
ppl won't be leveling anymore seeing the can just buy a char at level 90.
the world will become even more empty then before.
also these players will get bored really fast.

where it took you ages to get all classes to max level and ready for raiding it now takes some cash and some grinding.
hell without my alts i would have quit wow before wotlk!

[Myci]

Why do you people make sure an anal argument over a the term "pay2win". I mean why does it have to fit into that term. When its used in other games its referring to people using a ccash shop for some advantage over others. Items including in game currency, experience modifiers or perhaps gear.
Here they are letting you buy max lvl toons(to start) which frankly seems to e in the same category to me, but isnt really a gamebreaking advantage except time.
I think peoples need to split hairs over it just because its blizzard or ecause it doesnt fit into your close minded "pay2win" term are just ridiculous.
If hearthstone is any indication the direction blizz is going then I expect to see more, especially since since the sub count keeps dying and they already put 60% of thier new mounts in the cash shop instead of the game already.
and by hearthstone im talking about how they pretty much cap you at5 cards a day while people who buy them can pick up 100s at a time.

[Basileus]

I have every single class at 90 except for a hunter and rogue... I really hate leveling after I have done it so many times. Does that mean I can't skip all the content I have seen over 9 times now and just be 90? I mean..I've been playing this game since Vanilla Beta...I think I can play any class out there.

OT: It's now pay to win because there's no power gained from boosting to 90. Even if they give you say...500 ilvl greens or blues or some crap gear, you still aren't ANYWHERE near the top gear level. In other words....Some people have a different definition of what they believe pay to win is. But for it to be winning, they have to be the top and have some advantage over those who do not pay.
Let's take this player: <Random noob name since it's his first day of playing>
He boosted up to 90 before WoD and decided he wanted to go roll on Illidan. He also decided to go play alliance.
Let's pick a random person on illidan who knows...Fuck it. Let's pick Rigg.
This kid goes up and decides to fight Riggs. he gets the ver loving shit kicked out of him.
But wait! He boosted to 90! How did he get beat by someone who leveled their class? Oh yeah...cause it's not pay to win...

[ringpriest]

No, it isn't at all. There's a huge difference between pay to SKIP, and pay to "win". You haven't won anything by reaching/buying 90, you've just skipped old content which an 8 year old can complete on his own, solely using auto attack. Paying to skip that content is not an advantage over anyone, it's a catchup mechanic if anything.
Even if they would start selling 496 gear on the store today it would still be pay to skip the timeless isle grind. Still have to do lfr/flex to be considered by a raiding guild, and everyone's gear is reset in the next expansion.
If you could pay to get an extra action button that one shots any given boss, I would consider it to be pay to win.

So botting is okay then? After all, a botter isn't taking anything away from you, they're just skipping the boring parts of the game, exactly like someone who pays for a boost to 90.

[Doylez]

No, it isn't at all. There's a huge difference between pay to SKIP, and pay to "win". You haven't won anything by reaching/buying 90, you've just skipped old content which any 8 year old can complete on his own, solely using auto attack. Paying to skip that content is not an advantage over anyone, it's a catchup mechanic if anything.
Even if they would start selling 496 gear on the store today it would still be pay to skip the timeless isle grind. Still have to do lfr/flex to be considered by a raiding guild. If you could pay to get an extra action button that one shots any given boss, that I would consider to be pay to win.

So in your opinion Blizzard could put almost anything in the store and you'd never call it pay2win, just "pay2skip":
Because let's face it, there is very little in WoW that can't be achieved just by investing time.

[Deleted]

This sort of brain damage is why I stopped responding. pay2win is extremely clear and obvious in games.



Apparently a level 1 losing in a dual vs a level 90 is proof of pay2win. stupid.

Besides all of the insults in your post, lets have a look at your definition again:

Games that let you buy better gear or allow you to make better items then everyone else at a faster rate and then makes the game largely unbalanced even for people who have skill in the game without paying.

By that definition, Blizzard could almost sell anything in the shop and that's why the discussion about "pay2win" is totally irrelevant. Everyone draws their line somewhere else and many people also consider the fact that they are already paying for the game and maybe had some assumptions about what Blizzard does and doesn't do when they joined years ago.

Personally, I was okay when they introduced character services way back in the day. I didn't like the mount and pet shop for several reaons, but could live with it more or less. Paid character boost, Iam totally against. Not cancelling my sub over this (yet), but it's certainly a headache for me.
You know, Iam not stupid for having this opinion. No need for calling names.

Also, why are people nowaydays (just looked in the official forums) always calling for paid solutions to their problems? Character boosts would work just fine via an ingame achievement system.

[Saphyron]

Someone post that guys armory with 99.99% achievements done.

http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...on/achievement

[Deleted]

Getting the WotLK expansion is pay to win because you can make a character starting at level 55. Gives you a massive time advantage over a player starting at level 1.
Getting any expansion is pay to win because you can get higher levels and better gear than those who didn't pay, giving a massive character power advantage.

[Protoluz]

I don't mind if a person boosts or not, end of the day it will reduce the wait times on RandomBG,Random Hcs, LFR, and possibily a bigger pool of players for every type of end game group activity.
With this in mind i have no problem with a player wanting to pay for the boost or not.

[SeanTheOriginal]

I have to wonder just how many of the people who are whining about this being "pay 2 win" were championing the benefits of the RaF system and how it gives you free levels.

Getting a 'free' level 90 isn't pay 2 win in the slightest. Why would anyone WANT to start a new character, level from 1 to 58 in Azeroth, 58 to 68 in Outland, 68 to 70 in Northrend, 80 to 85 in Cata Azeroth, 85 to 90 in Pandaria, just to level from 90 to 100 in Outlands (I know it's Draenor, shut up) again?
Anyone who is complaining about this being pay 2 win needs to make a new character right now and see just how fun it is to level from 1 to 90. With or without heirloom gear. Then come back here and tell us how an instant level 90 is pay 2 win.

[Sparky_b]

I don't mind if a person boosts or not, end of the day it will reduce the wait times on RandomBG,Random Hcs, LFR, and possibily a bigger pool of players for every type of end game group activity.
With this in mind i have no problem with a player wanting to pay for the boost or not.

It also increases queue times for all content under level 90.