Sith Warrior: Juggernaut or Marauder?

[VKP]

Heyya

I am well aware that this question has probably been asked before a gazillion of times, but I wonder if any of the active (as of 2.5.2) players can give me some insight.
Basically my fear is that if I pick Juggernaut, I will gimp my dps severely.
I've already played republic equivalent (lvl 21 sentinel), and found it lacking in terms of survivability and soloing. Dps (since I have nothing to compare to) does not meet my expectations. But what if juggernaut dps will be even worse?

Any tip will be appreciated guys.

[Lovestar]

Jugg DPS is 'fine', it's 'competitive'. Maras are strong — but they're one of 'those classes' that's tuned very high, similar to Snipers, and it's best not to compare yourself against. No DPS spec in SWTOR is so far behind that you'll gimp your raid by bringing it (there's nothing on the level of WOTLK Frost Mage or Sub Rogue, for example).

Maras also bring SWTOR's version of Bloodlust, which makes them very appealing as a DPS class.

Judging anything at level 21 without proper gear or a full toolset / talent build isn't very useful in any MMO and SWTOR is no exception. Mara/Sent comes into its own much later because the top-tree talents are extremely powerful rotation keystones for all 3 specs. Maybe less for Rage, but that's a gimmick spec anyway for pissing people off in PvP or smashing trash packs while soloing.

Basically your Jugg DPS will only be a 'problem' (maybe) if you're doing current-content Nightmare Modes with a high-standards guild. Most of us aren't doing that. =)

In exchange, you gain the option of switching to Tank if you ever want to and higher inherent durability (but less short-term 'burst' durability, which Maras excel at).

[WarpedAcorn]

As Lovestar mentioned, the Marauder/Sentinel is really underpowered until around 40-45 due to their reliance on a lot of abilities you don't get until late in the game (they don't get their execute until 44 if I recall correctly). Gunslinger/Sniper on the other hand, is a pretty awesome force to be reckoned with as early as 14. It stinks when leveling but pays off at the end.

As for DPS, Juggernauts will always be behind Marauders due to the fact that they are not a "pure" DPS class. The goal of the design team is to stay within a 5% range assuming similar gear, skill, lag, position, ect...However this difference is so small that most groups would turn their nose up at you for not being a Marauder. In PUGs I got complimented on my damage output as a Guardian many times.

So really...play whichever class you connect with and enjoy playing more. Or play them both! =)

[Fencers]

The only question you need to ask yourself is: "Do I want to tank at some point?"

If yes, then the only choice is Juggernaut. Otherwise, Marauder.

[Lovestar]

The only question you need to ask yourself is: "Do I want to tank at some point?"

If yes, then the only choice is Juggernaut. Otherwise, Marauder.

Well, Jugg & Mara also have very different DPS styles (minus Rage, but meh, Rage) so it's a little more complex than that. Annihilation, Carnage, and Vengeance all play very differently and some people do prefer Veng.

I'd say the decision tree is more like this:

Do I want to be a melee class?

Do I want to play Sith Warrior?

Do I want to use a single lightsaber, like in the movies?

Juggernaut.

Do I want to be able to tank / have the option to spec myself into an annoying, indestructible wall of durasteel in PvP?

Juggernaut.

Do I want strong passive durability while DPS spec?

Juggernaut.

Do I want strong clutch/burst defenses?

Marauder.

Do I want to do the best Melee DPS possible, because I'm not satisfied with 'good' DPS?

Marauder.

Do I want to apply Mortal Strike / healing reduction debuff in PvP?

Marauder.

Do I have a deep need to dual-wield lightsabers?

Marauder.

Am I not concerned about any of those things?

Flip a coin.

As for the DPS specs themselves, these are the differences:

Both classes can spec Rage. Rage isn't really the best idea in PvE since it's a little underpowered and lacks a strong toolset, and is mostly about building up stacks of a buff that make your next AoE attack do enormous damage. Excellent for leveling and chewing through trash / annoying clumps of people in PvP.

Juggernaut

has Vengeance as its other DPS option. Vengeance is about using several strong attacks on cooldown as well as procs that reset the cooldown on Ravage. If you love casting Ravage, Vengeance Jugg is the spec for you. Its pace is steady, you always have something to press but you're not under a lot of pressure to keep up, either.

Jugg DPS is also simple, with nothing to manage except your spec's procs and your Rage income/expenditure.

Marauder

has two other DPS options: Annihilation and Carnage. Marauder also has to manage Frenzy, a stacking buff that's consumed at 30 stacks (by Berserk) to grant a special effect that varies by spec, making it more complicated (and perhaps more engaging) than Jugg DPS.

Mara's Annihilation spec is about DoTs/bleeds, which do armor-ignoring damage, and has procs that let it reset Rupture and apply it more often. Anni also has a special attack that does more damage each time it's used, requiring you to use it on-cooldown to avoid losing stacks of its buff and thus, losing a lot of damage output. Anni has a relatively slow, methodical style.

Mara's Carnage plays very much like a Fury Warrior in WoW (if you have used one). It revolves mostly around applying a debuff that makes your attacks ignore the victim's armor, and dumping as many attacks as you can during that period to maximize your damage. Carnage has a very fast-paced, spammy style and is good if you drink a lot of Mountain Dew while playing.

[Flame6]

Pft the Jug armor looks way better. I always got so jealous as a Mara when I saw the rewards for jugs looked so much better.

[Fencers]

Only one advance class offers tanking. So if you do want to tank there is only one choice open.

[Deleted]

Jugs dps isnt gimped, Infact over the last few tiers it was common to see them place in the top 50 on Tor parse, so its really just what you wanna play, if you would rather have a few DPS specs, or a dps spec and a tank spec - personally i picked jug for my alt, just because I like to tank a flashpoint now and again, but both advance classes are viable

There are however a ton of people who play marauder, so maybe playing a jug who can dps or tank well, might help you find groups quicker

its up to you bro

[Lovestar]

Only one advance class offers tanking. So if you do want to tank there is only one choice open.

Yes, but if you're only concerned about DPS, both options are still open — Marauder isn't the automatic choice even if your focus is on DPS over tanking. They have different styles and different advantages/disadvantages.

[Reavyn]

I slightly prefer a Jugg over a Mara for the following reasons;

- Force Push is AWESOME. Force Push + leap means you can control where and when you want to fight (Oh, and Snipers will hate you if you use it right ).
- Tank spec is available. This is amazing for soloing heroics (which I really like doing).
- Best mobility in Huttball bar none (I'll be having so much fun with this in the new Huttball maps).
- Saber Reflect to watch those pesky snipers melt their own faces.
- Single saber feels more powerful then acrobatic dual-saber to me, but that's more of a personal thing.

The biggest advantages a Mara has are;

- Way, way, way more powerful defensive cooldowns as DPS (I honestly feel that they should switch most defensive cooldowns between the two classes).
- Besides the obvious lolsmash spec, their middle tree is far less RNG-based and more reliable. As a Jugg you basically go lolsmash-spec or pray to the RNG gods that the stars align if you choose the middle dps spec.

Just my 2 cents.

[WarpedAcorn]

The biggest advantages a Mara has are;

- Way, way, way more powerful defensive cooldowns as DPS (I honestly feel that they should switch most defensive cooldowns between the two classes).
- Besides the obvious lolsmash spec, their middle tree is far less RNG-based and more reliable. As a Jugg you basically go lolsmash-spec or pray to the RNG gods that the stars align if you choose the middle dps spec.

Just my 2 cents.

I gotta STRONGLY disagree with you on that one note (strongly agree with everything else though). Carnage relies heavily on RNG and you getting specific procs. In fact your burst is dependent on a very small window where you have 100% Armor Pen. If you get CC'd in any way during that period then you lose a lot of DPS. Rage Spec is very controllable with its procs, but Carnage requires the right timing and order to line up all your abilities. You have to basically manage 3 different major RNG Procs to maximize your damage output.

[Reavyn]

I gotta STRONGLY disagree with you on that one note (strongly agree with everything else though). Carnage relies heavily on RNG and you getting specific procs. In fact your burst is dependent on a very small window where you have 100% Armor Pen. If you get CC'd in any way during that period then you lose a lot of DPS. Rage Spec is very controllable with its procs, but Carnage requires the right timing and order to line up all your abilities. You have to basically manage 3 different major RNG Procs to maximize your damage output.

I'm sorry, but Carnage is far LESS dependent on RNG. And on top of that, the proc is dependent on passive damage from Ataru form with a much shorter ICD and not an active ability like Vengeance. The problem is that Vengeance relies almost solely on ravage and the proc for ravage being tied to two abilities with CD while carnage procs are on abilities with no CD's.

The hard part about Carnage is utilizing the proc correctly. Wasting a proc as Carnage is far more punishing compared to Vengeance.

That all being said, Gore burst as Carnage makes most healers cry.

[WarpedAcorn]

Wait, maybe I misread your post. I thought you were saying that Carnage was less RNG than Rage spec. Were you comparing Carnage to Vengeance with the comment about RNG?