Mistweaver is the weakest healer in HM 25?

[Totaltotemic]

Obviously a lot of this depends on the strats you use too. On Thok for instance, we're all stacked in the kiting phase, so RJW works like a charm, same goes for Garrosh HC, there is nothing better at group healing on the move than RJW.

Don't get me wrong, I played my druid and shaman enough to know you have to work 5x to be competitive on a monk.

But I feel I'm preaching in the desert here, so I'll get my coat lol.

Sure it "works" but it's still not much of the spec's total throughput. WG/Efflor and Healing Rain do the same amount of healing RJW does, the difference is that Rejuv/Swiftmend, Mushroom explosions, and Chain Heal are much more effective than ReM/Uplift is when people are randomly getting hit.

[Deleted]

Monks are strong healers, but they need an ideal comp and encounter to shine on.

The problem is more that absorb healers atm are just ninjaing all heals, druids and shamans are resilient against it but monks aren't.

[Deleted]

Monks are strong healers, but they need an ideal comp and encounter to shine on.

The problem is more that absorb healers atm are just ninjaing all heals, druids and shamans are resilient against it but monks aren't.

Monks aren't strong healers if you're going by relative terms.

- - - Updated - - -

Sure it "works" but it's still not much of the spec's total throughput. WG/Efflor and Healing Rain do the same amount of healing RJW does, the difference is that Rejuv/Swiftmend, Mushroom explosions, and Chain Heal are much more effective than ReM/Uplift is when people are randomly getting hit.

How are you making your RJW as strong as a Healing Rain? Last I checked it required a shit tonne more mana, a tonne of globals, and does less healing.

[st33l]

How are you making your RJW as strong as a Healing Rain? Last I checked it required a shit tonne more mana, a tonne of globals, and does less healing.

Magic!
Wishful thinking?
Bad math.

[Totaltotemic]

Magic!
Wishful thinking?
Bad math.

Or you could not be a complete prick for once and think. RJW DOES do around the same HPS Healing Rain does, the problem is that it, just like any other Shaman spell, gets boosted by an actually useful mastery whereas MW was balanced around having a terrible mastery with naturally more potent spells but with blanket nerfs to the ground. Healing Rain does not inherently do more tons more healing than RJW, Shamans inherently do more healing than Monks. Don't know why Reg would mention globals or mana because that's entirely irrelevant to what I said.

[iDrunkenheal]

http://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/...ealing&fight=2

Like I said Healing Tide Totem does a ton of healing.

[st33l]

Or you could not be a complete prick for once and think. RJW DOES do around the same HPS Healing Rain does, the problem is that it, just like any other Shaman spell, gets boosted by an actually useful mastery whereas MW was balanced around having a terrible mastery with naturally more potent spells but with blanket nerfs to the ground. Healing Rain does not inherently do more tons more healing than RJW, Shamans inherently do more healing than Monks. Don't know why Reg would mention globals or mana because that's entirely irrelevant to what I said.

Well.
a.) Maybe I like being a prick?
b.) Maybe you should actually look at prevalent logs before deciding what works better?
c.) Reg's explanation makes sense. Yours doesn't.
d.) Have you healed with a resto shaman? Look at logs - very simple thing to do here; see how much of his healing was done by healing rain, see how much of your healing was done be RJW. Do a simple mathematical operation called 'comparison'. ?? Profit?

[Totaltotemic]

That it totally irrelevant to a comparison of spells because Healing Rain is incredibly easy to keep 100% uptime whereas RJW is not. RJW is reliant on the position of the player whereas Healing Rain is not. RJW does more HPS than Healing Rain on a healing per second basis at 100% health, but Healing Rain does more at 1% health because of Shaman mastery. Making a blanket statement that Healing Rain does more healing than RJW is either confusing healing per cast with HPS or is just ignoring facts. A simple look at the Healing Rain coefficient or even the logs provided at the top of this page you can see that Healing Rain massively trumps RJW when Thok is screeching and people are constantly at 40-50% health, but RJW does basically the same healing in the transition which is what I was talking about.

This isn't complicated, it just requires actual thought and not basic level thinking of "hurr Shaman easy and OP so every comparable spell must be inherently stronger." Maybe you might try providing any kind of math or reasoning behind your absurdist views. Or perhaps you thought I was referring to an overall sense and simply didn't take a second to read this very short thread to understand what I was referring to. Oh well, I've come to expect this level of discussion from you.

[iDrunkenheal]

That it totally irrelevant to a comparison of spells because Healing Rain is incredibly easy to keep 100% uptime whereas RJW is not. RJW is reliant on the position of the player whereas Healing Rain is not. RJW does more HPS than Healing Rain on a healing per second basis at 100% health, but Healing Rain does more at 1% health because of Shaman mastery. Making a blanket statement that Healing Rain does more healing than RJW is either confusing healing per cast with HPS or is just ignoring facts. A simple look at the Healing Rain coefficient or even the logs provided at the top of this page you can see that Healing Rain massively trumps RJW when Thok is screeching and people are constantly at 40-50% health, but RJW does basically the same healing in the transition which is what I was talking about.

This isn't complicated, it just requires actual thought and not basic level thinking of "hurr Shaman easy and OP so every comparable spell must be inherently stronger." Maybe you might try providing any kind of math or reasoning behind your absurdist views. Or perhaps you thought I was referring to an overall sense and simply didn't take a second to read this very short thread to understand what I was referring to. Oh well, I've come to expect this level of discussion from you.

I just did some quick napkin math not sure if I did it correctly but I see the two being very similar hps wise. with eating up half the globals.

[Spotnick]

http://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/...ealing&fight=2

Like I said Healing Tide Totem does a ton of healing.

Your milage may vary lol.

http://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/...D#type=healing

Granted the shaman is a reroll from a disc priest. BTW check your private mail.

[iDrunkenheal]

Your milage may vary lol.

http://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/...D#type=healing

Granted the shaman is a reroll from a disc priest. BTW check your private mail.

your RJW did 25 mil healing his HTT did 23 mil. Like I said it does almost as much sometimes more.

[Spotnick]

your RJW did 25 mil healing his HTT did 23 mil. Like I said it does almost as much sometimes more.

The big issue is that it's only one button pushed twice in a fight. Yes it's very strong.

That is the problem with shamans, too much of the healing is passive, which makes it a very boring class to play. Beside doing Unleashed Elements + Healing Rain and drop Chain Heal on your riptide target and dropping healing stream total, not much spot healing..

[iDrunkenheal]

The big issue is that it's only one button pushed twice in a fight. Yes it's very strong.

That is the problem with shamans, too much of the healing is passive, which makes it a very boring class to play. Beside doing Unleashed Elements + Healing Rain and drop Chain Heal on your riptide target and dropping healing stream total, not much spot healing..

It's a cd based healing class. Hit your abilities off cd and add some filler spells and win. Also check your messages.

[dreadsorrow]

Mistweavers are by far the worse heals in 25 man, i'd prefer bringing a druid or shaman any day over a monk currently

Resto shaman>Resto Druid>Disc priest>Holy paladin>Mistweaver

its the same reason why affinity went druid, monk healers couldn't provide enough throughput this tier

[iDrunkenheal]

Mistweavers are by far the worse heals in 25 man, i'd prefer bringing a druid or shaman any day over a monk currently

Resto shaman>Resto Druid>Disc priest>Holy paladin>Mistweaver

uhhhhh what?

healing wise
Disc priest > resto shaman > everything else is complete fucking garbage > MW

Utility
disc priest >= resto shaman > everything else is complete fucking garbage > spriest > mw

Damage

MW >= Disc priest > lol what why do you need more damage in 25

[dreadsorrow]

uhhhhh what?

healing wise
Disc priest > resto shaman > everything else is complete fucking garbage > MW

Utility
disc priest >= resto shaman > everything else is complete fucking garbage > spriest > mw

Damage

MW >= Disc priest > lol what why do you need more damage in 25

if you say a druid is garbage, you need to quit the game

[iDrunkenheal]

if you say a druid is garbage, you need to quit the game

compared to a resto shaman and a disc priest? yes

[Deleted]

i'm a raid leader of a group of 25 hm

That's maybe part of the problem. We had a Monk Healer doing our Raid Leading for a bit and his healing was a little lower than to be expected.

I'd invest in a Ranged DPS or Tank if no Ranged available to take over leading and your numbers should satisfy you more I'm sure.

[gorkos]

That's maybe part of the problem. We had a Monk Healer doing our Raid Leading for a bit and his healing was a little lower than to be expected.

I'd invest in a Ranged DPS or Tank if no Ranged available to take over leading and your numbers should satisfy you more I'm sure.

op is a shaman healer not a monk.

[st33l]

That it totally irrelevant to a comparison of spells because Healing Rain is incredibly easy to keep 100% uptime whereas RJW is not. RJW is reliant on the position of the player whereas Healing Rain is not. RJW does more HPS than Healing Rain on a healing per second basis at 100% health, but Healing Rain does more at 1% health because of Shaman mastery. Making a blanket statement that Healing Rain does more healing than RJW is either confusing healing per cast with HPS or is just ignoring facts. A simple look at the Healing Rain coefficient or even the logs provided at the top of this page you can see that Healing Rain massively trumps RJW when Thok is screeching and people are constantly at 40-50% health, but RJW does basically the same healing in the transition which is what I was talking about.

This isn't complicated, it just requires actual thought and not basic level thinking of "hurr Shaman easy and OP so every comparable spell must be inherently stronger." Maybe you might try providing any kind of math or reasoning behind your absurdist views. Or perhaps you thought I was referring to an overall sense and simply didn't take a second to read this very short thread to understand what I was referring to. Oh well, I've come to expect this level of discussion from you.

With shaman mastery taken out of the picture, it doesn't quite leave shamans in the same place, now does it?
It's a pretty silly thing to say,

Hey, that class/spec's X healing spell is worse than mine, because if he didn't have the 10k haste, it would be the same healing! Just like haste and crit effect RJW, shaman mastery and unleash elements effects their healing rain. If comparing the two spells, one does need to see the 'final effect' of the spell, not just the fact that since the coefficients/cast-time/CDs are the same, they of course must be the same HPS.

Assuming a typical progression fight, with an adequate number of healers healing, when a Shaman invests the globals and mana for a healing rain, the total 'healing' on the raid will be higher than a monk using RJW, using the same mana/globals.

Now take a healing intensive fight, and the number shifts drastically towards healing rain; so if I were to evaluate healers (assuming that I am doing so because a fight is healing intensive?), would the fact that with everyone at full HP and each spell hitting its maximum number of targets, the raw healing of RJW will be the same as healing rain mean anything to me at all for the purposes of a real fight? HPS and HPCT cannot be calculated in a situation that is ideal to your class and then used to prove that somehow monks are anywhere as close to resto shamans.

I agree, it isn't very complicated, which is why I am surprised that even you were making such a silly statement and are now sticking to it using even sillier logic to justify it. If this is your level of discussion, I am glad I am not at it.