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  1. #101
    I apologize for the probably stupid question, but what Horde Racials are "completely" overpowered?

  2. #102
    129-4, lol well easy honor farm then, you lose once every 26 bgs...oh no poor you.

  3. #103
    Hasn't blizzard said that PvE servers tend to be more Alliance heavy and PvP servers horde? Wouldn't this show that more players on horde enjoy pvping? Aren't the queue times very long for horde and very short for alliance? wouldnt this show that more horde are queuing?

    Personally I only do random BG's when I am really really bored, drunk, getting honor on an alt, helping someone get honor. If I want to actually pvp then i do RBG's or Arena.

    Personally I black list AV and IoC because of how little control individual players have. I can go into a losing BG on most others and turn the tide but those 2 you are 1/40. I dont care for the PvE nature of the 2 but that is not why I black list them.

    Racials you could debate balance and everything but from what I can tell the OP is saying there is strait boost to horde over alliance. Which is highly amuzing as you would see this in pve and pvp.

    I just think more horde prefer to pvp then alliance and practice makes you better.

  4. #104
    Again.

    When someone is creating such topics, please mention whether you're talking about US or EU realms.

    These things are completely different between the two sectors.

    The author was clearly talking about US, as it seems.

  5. #105
    Brewmaster Buxton McGraff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by biolink22 View Post
    Maybe you should check my link and try to refute the hard evidence instead of just spouting generalities. I specifically said characters over 2200 which is the ONLY pvp that matters. Also you are only looking at US rankings if you look at EU and US together you get an entirely different story.
    http://www.worldofwargraphs.com/stat...0-0-3-0-0.html
    EU rankings don't affect me in the slightest.

    When the people that I DO play with feel inclined to go horde to maximise their potential, then that's what's going to be negatively impacting my gameplay. Not what people on the other side of the world are doing, but what's happening right here on US.

  6. #106
    Quote Originally Posted by Buxton McGraff View Post
    This is 100% false. Look at the top 100 3s players. All horde from tichondrius. The Human racial became next to shit compared to horde racials, when they nerfed PVP power. (the extra PVP power trinket no longer outweighed the horde racials)

    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/pvp/leaderboards/3v3

    Check it out. The top 3s players, not a single Alliance on the first page (top 50 players) and only 5 on the second page.
    So 5% of the top 100 3v3 players in the world are Alliance. 95% of them are Horde, and not because horde are better.
    It's because anybody looking to become one of the top 100 PVPers in the world, is going to go horde to get the slight edge they need to be better. (racials)

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    Productive response.

    Not only did you manage to come off looking like an arrogant douche, but you failed to prove a point as well.

    I wasn't trolling at all. These are legitimate issues in the aforementioned BGs, that have yet to be addressed over the years.

    I.E. By the time Alliance arrive at BS and it's already capped, it's going to be next to impossible to secure a steal. Especially once the base is capped and Horde begin to res there.
    that is a BG issue, not a faction racial balance issue. Also, when you have a controlled test where the person could try to lose it doesn't show anything. I lose most the BGs I'm in. Does it mean Horde sucks? No, probably means I suck at BGs lol

  7. #107
    Scarab Lord Fahrenheit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Illana View Post
    Solo queueing will end up in more losses than wins

    queueing when undergeared will end up in more losses than wins

    being a bad player will end up in more losses than wins

    There is no faction better than the other, only variable is the quality of the player.
    I disagree Illana. Though obviously it's far easier to win if you go in with 4 others who are geared, motivated, and communicating. But just solo queueing doesn't preclude a sub .500 winning percentage. I'm proof of that. I've done probably .999 of my 3kish BGs solo queuing as a feral druid and I have a winning percentage higher than 50% in every BG with the exception of EotS (48%), SSM (49%, I win about 57% since the fix) and DwG (33% I have it black listed).

    Furthermore, I've solo queued my way to <Battlemaster>, <Justicar>, <of the Alliance> and I'm just a couple achievements from <Khan> and that after taking about a year off from the game mid MoP.

    You can still do just fine solo queuing, of that I'm certain.

    Everything else in your post I mostly concur with.
    Last edited by Fahrenheit; 2014-02-06 at 08:27 PM.
    Rudimentary creatures of blood and flesh. You touch my mind, fumbling in ignorance, incapable of understanding.
    You exist because we allow it, and you will end because we demand it.

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  8. #108
    High Overlord Embodier's Avatar
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    There is a reason I call them Failliance

  9. #109
    Quote Originally Posted by Mihalik View Post
    That hasn't been true for years. Horde significantly outnumber Alliance players both in PvP and PvE. Almost every single PvP realm is heavily Horde populated. Most "serious" PvE players also mass migrated Horde due to the racials (Just see the SoO HC race, the only Alliance guild half participating was Midwinter, otherwise the entire playing field was made up of Horde).

    Horde had outnumbered Alliance since the introduction of Blood Elves, whom are essentially the Horde's Humans, making up 50%+ of the player base.
    Realmpop called and said its 53/47 US and 52/48 EU Ally/Horde.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Buxton McGraff View Post
    Arathi Basin: Horde arrive at Blacksmith a few seconds faster and are usually able to secure a cap before Alliance can arrive.
    Lack of imagination on your part does not equal a speed advantage. Maybe there's more than one way to get there and maybe you don't even need water walking to make it work?

    See you at LM.

  10. #110
    Mechagnome Mr. Casual's Avatar
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    wait are people really taking this serious? lol what has it come to. An argument about op racials would make more sense and be less idiotic than horde as a race are just stronger and faster.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Buxton McGraff View Post
    This is 100% false. Look at the top 100 3s players. All horde from tichondrius. The Human racial became next to shit compared to horde racials, when they nerfed PVP power. (the extra PVP power trinket no longer outweighed the horde racials)

    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/pvp/leaderboards/3v3

    Check it out. The top 3s players, not a single Alliance on the first page (top 50 players) and only 5 on the second page.
    So 5% of the top 100 3v3 players in the world are Alliance. 95% of them are Horde, and not because horde are better.
    It's because anybody looking to become one of the top 100 PVPers in the world, is going to go horde to get the slight edge they need to be better. (racials)

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    Productive response.

    Not only did you manage to come off looking like an arrogant douche, but you failed to prove a point as well.

    I wasn't trolling at all. These are legitimate issues in the aforementioned BGs, that have yet to be addressed over the years.

    I.E. By the time Alliance arrive at BS and it's already capped, it's going to be next to impossible to secure a steal. Especially once the base is capped and Horde begin to res there.
    Not sure if you follow pvp but pretty much all of the best US players play on horde tich because a couple of years ago they switch from alliance for funzies. I dont understand if horde hold some distinct advantage why do most alliance players roll alliance for pvp? Is that because on US horde are stronger or because there isnt a big differnce. Ill let you decide which makes more sense.
    Last edited by Mr. Casual; 2014-02-07 at 05:04 AM.

  11. #111
    Pandaren Monk
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cobaltius View Post
    If that were true then the Horde que times should be instant and Alliance very long but it is the reverse which would suggest Horde PVP player base vastly outnumber Alliance.
    Assuming that your queue time anecdote is true, it simply means that alliance queue less frequently than horde which still supports my assertion that, on average, alliance players participate in less BGs than horde.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cobaltius View Post
    Why would that be? Perhaps because they indeed win a lot more and people don't like losing so it is human nature to migrate toward the winning side.
    It is quite likely that over time alliance have become conditioned to believe they are going to lose because it has been that way for some time. This creates a negative feedback loop with a lot of alliance avoiding PvP and/or switching to horde which then exacerbates the situation.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mihalik View Post
    That hasn't been true for years. Horde significantly outnumber Alliance players both in PvP and PvE.
    Where did you pull that statistic from? Sites like Warcraftrealms.com support my assertion. Even the Blizzard infographic they released recently shows that there are 10% more alliance than horde.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mihalik View Post
    Almost every single PvP realm is heavily Horde populated. Most "serious" PvE players also mass migrated Horde due to the racials (Just see the SoO HC race, the only Alliance guild half participating was Midwinter, otherwise the entire playing field was made up of Horde).
    I don't dispute this, but the question is how did this happen? Clearly horde had some advantage earlier on, which caused serious players to migrate to horde, thus skewing the system even more.

    I am asserting that this started in PvP because of too many people playing alliance which essentially made the horde players better.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mihalik View Post
    Horde had outnumbered Alliance since the introduction of Blood Elves, whom are essentially the Horde's Humans, making up 50%+ of the player base.
    Again, made up numbers. Blood Elves are the largest race of the horde, but they are 30%. Humans make up 33% of the alliance. Horde have never overall outnumbered alliance.

  12. #112
    Alliance and horde has about equal winrate, but alliances wins come mostly from AV and IoC while horde gets their wins from larger number of battlegrounds.

  13. #113
    Everytime Blizzard releases a graphic showing random BGs win/lose faction ratio shows horde dominating everything except Av and IoC, and yet some people will tell you thats not how it goes...

    And I think horde just don't dominate Av and IoC too because they set their mind that they gonna lose, that they dont like that one. Most of them blacklist them, and most of the ones that plays them just seems like they don't care.

    If they wanted to, I bet they could dominate all the BGs. Thats just how it is right now... maybe it was different sometimes in the past.

  14. #114
    So I just wanted to throw this into the mix as well...

    I have both Isle and AV blacklisted on all of my characters. I have the achievements from them, and while losing fast AV may be more honor/hour because og the mix of faster queue times and the amount of honor you get for losing in comparison to other BGs I actually like to have fun while I am grinding honor on alts so I don't play them.

    Anyway, my numbers personally for those two BGs as a horde are AV - 268 played, 148 won. 55%. Isle - 230 played, 152 won. 66%. I have what you would call and above average winrate for those two BGs on my DK main. When Isle first came out Horde won all the time and was dominant. As a DK I could solo both glaives even if they were guarded before I was taken down. I would guess that most people have already gotten their achievements out of those BGs and are like me and don't see the point in playing a PvP game where people actually run past each other to get to the NPCs. When I queue for a BG, I want to fight other players, not the vehicles they are riding in on their way to kill a door.

  15. #115
    Quote Originally Posted by Dumaw View Post
    Everytime Blizzard releases a graphic showing random BGs win/lose faction ratio shows horde dominating everything except Av and IoC, and yet some people will tell you thats not how it goes...

    And I think horde just don't dominate Av and IoC too because they set their mind that they gonna lose, that they dont like that one. Most of them blacklist them, and most of the ones that plays them just seems like they don't care.

    If they wanted to, I bet they could dominate all the BGs. Thats just how it is right now... maybe it was different sometimes in the past.
    Exactly. The majority of Horde in AV likely enter with "I'm going to lose this because we'll not beat the Alliance in a zerg rush" mentality. I'm doing AV's on my DK while leveling and winning 70%+ because I'm getting to the SPAS before Alliance get to the FWAS, I can also generally take a tower before the Alliance takes both towers, meaning I can facecheck Vann with 1 Marshal up at least and still kill him first.

    Thing is, on a non-tank class I can't do that so I have to change my own tactics. Horde can beat the Alliance in a zerg, so long as the Horde send enough upto DB (I'm usually alone) and send a minimalist force to Balinda, while avoiding capping SHGY until SPAS, at least, has been taken. Otherwise you delay taking the GY which is more important for the Horde than the Alliance because Vanndar hits like a truck compared.
    "Reason is not automatic. Those who deny it cannot be conquered by it." - Ayn Rand

  16. #116
    All my chars are alliance. And well, its not that I have to win all the time to have fun, but when I started winning one every 3 or 4 matches, sometimes more, the fun just kinda went away... so lately I've completely quit doing random BGs...

    All I do when I need honor is AV, being call to arms or not, and IoC, but this one just when is call to arms.

    So when Horde start to dominate those two too, I'm gonna have to spend money, lots of transfer money lol

  17. #117
    Not sure if its true but the only reason I'm still ally is because most my friends are ally

  18. #118
    The horde do win more in the smaller battlegrounds, it is simply because older players tend to choose Horde.
    They are more experienced and have better gear. They tend to be hardcore.

    Too often in bg's you'll see a couple of alliance toons kitted out in poor pve gear, who are essentially passengers.
    This does happen with Horde but less frequently.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cle View Post
    I am still waiting for the IoC imbalances that actually favor alliance so heavily which would explain the statistics. Travel time to docks is virtually identical for both teams.
    If you look at the data you'll find that Horde win a disproportionate amount of the time if they don't go for the workshop.

    I think you'll also find that Horde send even a couple of half-decent players to gank the glaives they'll win more than
    half the time.

    For some reason, they just always go WS and make no serious attempt to kill the glaives. I just started IOC on a horde
    toon and many players seem to acknowledge the stupidity of this strategy, but the mass of horde follow each other like
    sheep to loss after loss.

    Weirdly, EVERY IOC I've ever played where the horde defended the boss en masse, they won easily. This happens very
    rarely, but horde have a huge edge in that scenario.

  19. #119
    LOl You guys are redic

  20. #120
    Kinda pathetic to see people actually care THIS much about something so trivial.

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