1. #1

    Delaying CS for trinket procs + Dragon's Roar question

    I got a cooldown tracker for Thok's trinket and Evil Eye, and I'm wondering at how many seconds left on the trinket, is it worth delaying my colossus smash. Sometimes the trinket procs immediately, sometimes it takes 5-10 seconds, and I could've possibly fit in another CS.

    For example, there is 20 seconds left on trinket proc, and CS comes off cooldown in 10 seconds. Is it worth holding on? If there was 15 seconds left on trinket proc instead, I think it'd be worth it, but the question still stands.

    Also, where is the best place in my 20 second CS phases to use Dragon's Roar? I guess I can also ask how long is it worth delaying DR if trinket proc is close to resetting.

    That's all! Hope you can help me out.

  2. #2
    Pandaren Monk Archimtiros's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    California
    Posts
    1,753
    Really hard to say, it depends on what is happening in the fight. Eg: On Garrosh its really hard to delay more than a couple seconds since you are very often going into a Bladestorm or something.

    Assuming you have time to delay, I wouldn't delay more than a few seconds. Usually ~5 seconds, unless its for something like Execute burn phase with CDs; then I'll wait more. At any rate, shouldn't really be waiting more than 10.
    Everyone makes up their own rules ofc.

    As for Dragon Roar, don't use it during CS. It ignores Armor (just like CS does) so its redundant. On the one fight this tier I even use Dragon Roar, I use it after CS ends. Trinkets fall under about the same guidelines as above.

  3. #3
    I have actually wondered this myself too, how much is it worth delaying CS (or CD's) for trinket procs.

    Collision pls.

  4. #4
    I generally delay CS for ICDs <5 seconds, and a little bit more for reck/banner (10 seconds)

    If the ICD is ready in 6 seconds, that means that if you use CS immediately, there will be 14 seconds until the next CS when the ICD is up. Now, it will generally take (1 / 0.15 ) 6.667~ 7 rolls for the trinket to proc on average. Inside of CS, our apm is higher than outside, as you're using 1 storm bolt (2 rolls, MH/OH), 2 raging blows (4 rolls), 1 bloodthirst, 5~ autoattack swings, and 4 heroic strikes.

    Inside a 6.5 second window, there are 16~ chances to proc that trinket, or 2.4 chances per second. So, after 3~ seconds that trinket is expected to proc. Basically what I'm saying here, is that if the ICD comes up at the very tail-end of CS, you have a relatively high chance of proccing the trinket, and then it'll be wasted.

    Outside that window, in a 6.5 second window we'll have 2 bloodthirsts, 1 raging blow and 5 autoattacks. 9 chances, 7 fewer than inside CS to get a trinket proc. The expected proc time for the trinket has been extended to 6~ seconds.

    So it ends up looking like this:
    Trinket has 6 seconds for ICD.
    Use CS (20 seconds till CS)
    ICD comes up (14 seconds till CS)
    Expected proc 6 seconds later, 8 seconds till CS.

    With a 10 second proc, and a 20 second storm bolt (H-WF 2/2 upgraded.) storm bolt could feasibly be used with that trinket proc. If the trinket proc is delayed any, then it'll overlap your entire CS. If it's a 15 second proc, then it'll most likely overlap the entire CS, no matter what happens.

  5. #5
    Pretty easy to calculate. How much (during a CS rage dump) more damage do you do with a trinket proc? Is it 20% more than usual? Well, it's probably worth delaying the CD up to 20% then.

    It's generally not worth delaying CDs more than 25% due to a single trinket proc though, regardless of class and CD, unless it lines up with other CDs as well, making the dump even more powerful than the usual 20-30% a trinket proc provides.

    I'd say a 5 sec delay is ok, especially if you're not completely ready for the dump, but any longer than that and you're probably wasting the CD. Unless you have other CDs lining up of course, but that's not what you're asking here.
    EU first PG wave 30, come at me bros.

  6. #6
    Herald of the Titans Darkfriend's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Wisconsin
    Posts
    2,836
    Quote Originally Posted by Megamisama View Post
    Pretty easy to calculate. How much (during a CS rage dump) more damage do you do with a trinket proc? Is it 20% more than usual? Well, it's probably worth delaying the CD up to 20% then.

    It's generally not worth delaying CDs more than 25% due to a single trinket proc though, regardless of class and CD, unless it lines up with other CDs as well, making the dump even more powerful than the usual 20-30% a trinket proc provides.

    I'd say a 5 sec delay is ok, especially if you're not completely ready for the dump, but any longer than that and you're probably wasting the CD. Unless you have other CDs lining up of course, but that's not what you're asking here.
    That's a pretty bad way to figure, actually. You're delaying CS which throws other things out of balance, and also leads to more lower DPE GCDs being filled, due to the delay. It just isn't that simple, due to opportunity cost.

  7. #7
    Pandaren Monk Archimtiros's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    California
    Posts
    1,753
    Quote Originally Posted by Archimtiros View Post
    Usually ~5 seconds, unless its for something like Execute burn phase with CDs; then I'll wait more. At any rate, shouldn't really be waiting more than 10.
    Quote Originally Posted by Yiris View Post
    I have actually wondered this myself too, how much is it worth delaying CS (or CD's) for trinket procs.

    Collision pls.
    Quote Originally Posted by CollisionTD View Post
    I generally delay CS for ICDs <5 seconds, and a little bit more for reck/banner (10 seconds)
    I feel so unloved.

  8. #8
    Herald of the Titans Darkfriend's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Wisconsin
    Posts
    2,836
    Guys better ask landsoul. He'll know the REAL answer.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Archimtiros View Post
    I feel so unloved.
    I seriously started writing my post before your post, lol. At least we agreed.

    (I have serious internet ADD, gotta look through cat pictures, news, play a game of civ 5, etc, while writing anything.)

  10. #10
    Field Marshal Kookies's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Cymru
    Posts
    78
    Quote Originally Posted by Archimtiros View Post
    I feel so unloved.
    /intervene
    /soothe
    "Plz inv for steelsnap"

  11. #11
    Herald of the Titans Darkfriend's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Wisconsin
    Posts
    2,836
    Quote Originally Posted by Kookies View Post
    /intervene
    /soothe
    Soothing a warrior is a bad idea. He'll do so much less damage if not enraged.

  12. #12
    Pandaren Monk Archimtiros's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    California
    Posts
    1,753
    Quote Originally Posted by Darkfriend View Post
    Soothing a warrior is a bad idea. He'll do so much less damage if not enraged.
    Intervening is a bad idea too. Especially if that Warrior happens to be your MT.

  13. #13
    Herald of the Titans Darkfriend's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Wisconsin
    Posts
    2,836
    Quote Originally Posted by Archimtiros View Post
    Intervening is a bad idea too. Especially if that Warrior happens to be your MT.
    Good excuse to get the debuff on Nazgrim so you can DPS through defensive stance.

  14. #14
    Thanks for the replies, learnt a lot. I remember watching a landsoul video once, explaining our 20 second cycles, it was so informative.

  15. #15
    Pandaren Monk Archimtiros's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    California
    Posts
    1,753
    Quote Originally Posted by Darkfriend View Post
    Good excuse to get the debuff on Nazgrim so you can DPS through defensive stance.
    Good way to get yourself on every other boss too! Did I ever tell you about the time I forgot to change my taunt to "on mouseover" for Malkorok? It's a very short story...

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •