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  1. #841
    Subs are still down 35% from where they were when wow was in its prime, so I don't see how this is anything to be proud of or brag about. Neither is playing the same game for almost 10 straight years while life passes you by. Wow, the game is almost 10 years old already. I had fun with it when I played, but that was many years and expansions ago. Never understood people that could do the same thing over and over for years on end. In any case, I'd be curious to know what the average WoW'ers age is. At 10 years old, this game might half as old as many of its players!

    (And before any of you geniuses chime in with the 'oh yeah well why are you on MMO-Champion if you don't care about WoW etc etc. I came here for info on the Elder Scrolls game, smarties.)

  2. #842
    Elemental Lord MerinPally's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shudder View Post
    These numbers are from last year. Therefore it is relevant...
    But now consider that it's a video game you're looking at the product life cycle of? Many other franchises have to release a new game every year and don't retain the same following that a 10 year old game does.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by holymolyrolypoly View Post
    Subs are still down 35% from where they were when wow was in its prime, so I don't see how this is anything to be proud of or brag about. Neither is playing the same game for almost 10 straight years while life passes you by. Wow, the game is almost 10 years old already. I had fun with it when I played, but that was many years and expansions ago. Never understood people that could do the same thing over and over for years on end. In any case, I'd be curious to know what the average WoW'ers age is. At 10 years old, this game might half as old as many of its players!

    (And before any of you geniuses chime in with the 'oh yeah well why are you on MMO-Champion if you don't care about WoW etc etc. I came here for info on the Elder Scrolls game, smarties.)
    35% of it's prime after 10 years? That sounds pretty good considering it was up at what, 12-13million subs at one point? 35% retention of any game even if you only have 100k is pretty damn good, let alone 35% of 12million. And probably on the age part, yes - I turned 20 in December and whilst I was forced to quit at MOP launch due to life commitments I have come back a couple of times and will do so again.

  3. #843
    Quote Originally Posted by holymolyrolypoly View Post
    Subs are still down 35% from where they were when wow was in its prime, so I don't see how this is anything to be proud of or brag about. Neither is playing the same game for almost 10 straight years while life passes you by. Wow, the game is almost 10 years old already. I had fun with it when I played, but that was many years and expansions ago. Never understood people that could do the same thing over and over for years on end. In any case, I'd be curious to know what the average WoW'ers age is. At 10 years old, this game might half as old as many of its players!

    (And before any of you geniuses chime in with the 'oh yeah well why are you on MMO-Champion if you don't care about WoW etc etc. I came here for info on the Elder Scrolls game, smarties.)
    In it's prime? Keep in mind that "in it's prime" isn't the true playerbase, it's lots of "fluff" subs packed onto it.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Blizzard lose subs - The game is dying
    Blizzard gain subs - Multiboxers, It's a fluke, zero credit given.

    Man this player-base is so friggin cancerous. I feel like all these SOBs just want WoW to die, yet they continue to play the game and give blizzard money themselves. I think it's rather funny how now that a good thing happens, people just pull baseless claims and accusations out of their ass in a feeble attempt to "prove" the death of WoW.

    Q: Blizzard is lying
    A: No they're not. Blizzard cannot legally lie about their sub numbers.

    Q: It's all multiboxing! fake accounts!
    A: So there's 2 accounts for every single player in the game? This is counting the amount of players in the game, not the amount of multiboxers, and i bet if blizzard made stats on that too it'd de-rail your silly theory. Multiboxers have been in the game since vanilla. They've never made a difference then, they wont make one now.

    Q: Everybody happy for blizzard is a fanboy
    A: Bad thing happens: "WOW IS DYING OMG!" Good thing happens: "IF YOU SUPPORT YOUR GAME COMPANY UR BAD". Logic. Learn it.

    Q: It doesn't matter! WoW is still dying!
    A: Dont lie to yourself. the game has been "dying" for 10 years now and it still towers over every other MMO. Even this sub gain is alot more than many MMOs could even ask for. The subs always fluctuate between expansions and this sub gain outside of that usual cycle is a good thing, proving against your claims that WoW can't/wont gain anymore subs. I'm anticipating the next sub count showing another rise in subs, but it seems like you people just want the game to die so you can be the first to call it. But that's okay, you're still playing and feeding blizzard money. Thanks for all your help.

    My theory with whats happening (as whats always been happening with subs) is that the game is leveling out to it's actual playerbase. Wotlk gave WoW tons of extra subs and it's been deflating over each expansion and leveling out to WoW's true playerbase. The small sub gains prove that in the sense that subs wont just drop to 0, but rather plateau somewhere in the millions as usual. WoW's not dying folks, get over it and be happy for Blizzard or leave and become a doomsayer elsewhere.
    Last edited by Mellrod; 2014-02-08 at 02:19 PM.

  4. #844
    The Patient Aureth's Avatar
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    Blizzard lose subs - The game is dying
    Blizzard gain subs - Multiboxers, It's a fluke, zero credit given.
    Well to be fair, there is an argument that gets used the other way, as well; though it's less an argument and more on how it's reported on their end.

    Blizz Loses Subs="Mostly from Asia"
    Blizz Gains Subs=No Specification on where subs were gained

    I'd be curious to hear where the 200k came from mostly-was it 50/50? More West? More East? At the end of the day, numbers are numbers for them, but I do find it a bit odd they're quick to admit that most of the losses are from the East, but not where the gains were from.

    At the end of the day, WoW has always gained and lost subs; even back in the older days. It's just as of late it's lost more than it's gained. This time around it's gained a few more, and it actually makes some sense. It's in the tail end of an expac, though not the *end end* of the expac(when subs usually take a dive.) I think they're in the area where people who may have quit before-and for awhile even-where there is enough content now for people to try out at their leisure, without any sorta expectations and such, for them to want to 'give the game a try again.' It's before the end-of-expac dropoff(I'd say that would probably happen more around April-May depending, also I'd say around then due to things like exams and the like), so servers feel fairly busy, and so on. It's actually a pretty good time right now for lapsed players to give the game a go for a month or so; too much later than this and a lot of folks are sicker of the content, may not be running pugs as much, guilds might start going on their end of expac hiatuses, they may be busier due to time of year, and so on. So the small gain, again, doesn't look too far off, but I don't think it's due to some miracle of game design or anything, more just that it's a good time to try the game again.

    Hell, I even tried a month not that long ago(otherwise have been out for awhile, since end of 2012.) Was cool, and I'm curious about WoD and plan on trying it, but there wasn't enough to get me to stick for the rest of this expac. (Folks like me would have counted toward that 200k, though, for that example.)

    And it's true that WoW isn't dying. But it's also true that nothing lasts forever, and eventually, it's *going* to fizzle out. It'll take years most likely and quite a few of them, but eventually, like anything, it's going to become small. There's a difference between doomcrying and stating the simple fact that eventually, WoW is likely going to get very small, just due to time.
    Last edited by Aureth; 2014-02-08 at 02:35 PM.

  5. #845
    Quote Originally Posted by Aureth View Post
    Well to be fair, there is an argument that gets used the other way, as well; though it's less an argument and more on how it's reported on their end.

    Blizz Loses Subs="Mostly from Asia"
    Blizz Gains Subs=No Specification on where subs were gained
    Actually, I believe in the questions they said subs were gained in the west and lost in the east this time. Which is a win, of course.
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  6. #846
    The Patient Aureth's Avatar
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    Hmm, trying to find that part of it but I'm not finding anything, but combing through all of the logs is a little trying. Then again, it would still be a win even if they gained in Asia anyway. I remember reading an article that stated something along the lines of 'we have more actual subscribers in the East, but less revenue per subscriber.' So a West gain might be more of a win in terms of profit, but an Eastern gain still at least matters. (I admit, one reason why I tend to make sure they both get recognized is because a lot of WoW's players are in the East, and I sometimes get the impression that they don't get noticed as much. Even with less revenue per subscriber, if 1m subs dropped in the East suddenly, the worldwide subs would go down 1m, and it would still look bad.)

    So perhaps losses in the East don't hurt as bad revenue-wise, nor score as much gain-wise if they gain them, but they would still show up the same on the subscriber numbers. (Now, as for how the West's subs are broken up between the US, EU, Oceanic and South America, I'm not sure. I've heard some accounts, though, of some US servers seemingly picking up, while some of my EU friends have said a lot of servers feel dead these days. so I'm wondering what EU numbers are like these days-I can say that when I stopped back on, I had poked around the old server I was on and WOW it felt really dead-and even the populated server I was on saw a drop, so I wonder if the US is who are getting most of these subs? It would perhaps make some sense-the EU's Connected Realms have been moving along a lot slower and I wonder if it caused some to get fed up with it, where the US has been working the connected realms pretty efficiently these days, thus making the game feel more alive and drawing people back.)

    EDIT: Hmm, thinking more about Connected Realms...if these gains were mostly in the US, if I were Blizz I'd seriously consider speeding up the EU connections. It might help out quite a bit.
    Last edited by Aureth; 2014-02-08 at 04:27 PM.

  7. #847
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    I am not surprised it went up my server has seen an influx of new people since the RAF came out. I have seen tons of people leveling and even the lower MoP LFR's are pretty full and the queue times have been pretty good for even a dps. I actually thought more than 200k, but I am sure it will be short lived depending how long people are will to wait for WoD. Patience is not something many have in this game. it will be interesting to see if we get to May or June without beta out just how many are going to be sticking around.

  8. #848
    The Patient Aureth's Avatar
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    IMO, an idea they might want to try is to offer guaranteed Beta for pre-ordering WoD. Hell, I'd do it. I mean if the expansion comes with a free month, that'll potentially boost subs nicely(and maybe make some stick, though I'm sure as time goes on others will trickle off.) I don't think another yearly subscription would work too well this time-it's a bit too much, the game is even older, and I think last time, judging by the subs lost in MoP, people may have felt a little burned-but a beta for a WoD pre-order may work.

    As for how long these will stick-I reckon that if they can get the beta running and the full game out by the end of June(possible if they've hammered out a lot of internal testing beforehand), they'll not see too much of a negative change-and indeed, gain like they always do with a new expac...but if they end up taking too long with the expansion that will not be good for the subs at all, since summer alone is usually enough to drop them, summer + no new content + another year of the dungeon will *really* bite them in the ass this time, and hard. Much worse than last time. They're doing well for now; they need to keep up the pace, though, and get the expansion out at a decent time or a lot of that goodwill is going to be burned up, and they'll likely gain a lot less than they would have with the new expansion if that happens. While Blizz has made questionable business decisions in the past, I'll say that they're not so daft and they know this time is pretty tight for them and they'll try to get it all to come off smoothly rather than sit on their laurels.

  9. #849
    The Patient Berkhtar's Avatar
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    I resigned after Blizzcon... now after having realized that WoD is still 6 months away... I cancelled my sub again.

    The game will bleed out during the sommer months... SoO has 10 killable HC bosses and 3 ones you need 200+ tries for... for me as a three times per week semipro raider not achievable.

    So the game has nothing to offer for me at the moment unfortunately.

  10. #850
    Bloodsail Admiral Shudder's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MerinPally View Post
    But now consider that it's a video game you're looking at the product life cycle of? Many other franchises have to release a new game every year and don't retain the same following that a 10 year old game does.
    Well maybe they should make a new game. Before you say Titan, what info they did release about it made it sound like a pretty awful game. Facebook integration, extremely casual, hiring people do to in game ads. Then they reset it and took most of the staff off it. Seems they're not looking at the future. Seems their plan is to just stick with an old dying game and pull free to play out of their pocket when it gets bad. I agree, it's an old game. I'd like it to die already and get something new. Either a new MMO or WoW2.

  11. #851
    As a former player looking in from the outside, it seems pretty ridiculous to me that players consider a paltry 200k subscriber growth (due most likely to RAF) to be something about getting overly excited over.

    PvP in WoW is trash and heading in the wrong direction, and if you don't play a hybrid you forfeit your raid spot. Not the game it was? Absolutely. Not the game people wish it was? Absolutely.

  12. #852
    Quote Originally Posted by Mellrod View Post
    My theory with whats happening (as whats always been happening with subs) is that the game is leveling out to it's actual playerbase. Wotlk gave WoW tons of extra subs and it's been deflating over each expansion and leveling out to WoW's true playerbase.
    That's what I think. It's about the same number that it was at the end of vanilla which is probably the right amount.

  13. #853
    Cataclysm sub loss on US and EU might have been worse than it seems on the graph.

    Even with the new localizations (here in Brazil we got a bit of subs) the overall sub count decreased fastly.

  14. #854
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    Some anecdotal musings from me: it seems they are still getting an influx of new players, judging from the people I have been grouping with in dungeons. Usually when someone makes a mistake or does something I would consider "dumb" in a dungeon I've made it a habit to ask them if they are a new player, and so far it's been about 50/50 new/old players. It hasn't made my leveling experience very pleasant on my new druid, but I found it interesting nonetheless.

  15. #855
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    this is most likely the last patch and there are OP BoA weapons to be dropped before the next expansion starts, how strange people are resubbing
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  16. #856
    Herald of the Titans Kickbuttmario's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by S7orm View Post
    this is most likely the last patch and there are OP BoA weapons to be dropped before the next expansion starts, how strange people are resubbing
    Well WoD is actually very interesting. Honestly, get anything with Draenor and Draenei in it and we're good.
    I am KickButtMario. I kick butt because I am Mario. The coolest, longest, living, protagonist out there in the video game industry.

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  17. #857
    Quote Originally Posted by Nastified View Post
    As a former player looking in from the outside, it seems pretty ridiculous to me that players consider a paltry 200k subscriber growth (due most likely to RAF) to be something about getting overly excited over.

    PvP in WoW is trash and heading in the wrong direction, and if you don't play a hybrid you forfeit your raid spot. Not the game it was? Absolutely. Not the game people wish it was? Absolutely.
    the game is 10 fucking years old. and it gained subs? thats impressive take your hate somewhere else

  18. #858
    i just started playing again cuz i got into hearthstone beta and saw my friends online all the time on wow >_>

  19. #859
    Quote Originally Posted by Automaton512 View Post
    i just started playing again cuz i got into hearthstone beta and saw my friends online all the time on wow >_>
    I found this to be very interesting (not being sarcastic).
    "There is a pervasive myth that making content hard will induce players to rise to the occasion. We find the opposite. " -- Ghostcrawler
    "Almost every time I have gotten to know a critic personally, they keep up with the criticism but lose the venom." -- Ghostcrawler

  20. #860
    Quote Originally Posted by Nastified View Post
    As a former player looking in from the outside, it seems pretty ridiculous to me that players consider a paltry 200k subscriber growth (due most likely to RAF) to be something about getting overly excited over.

    PvP in WoW is trash and heading in the wrong direction, and if you don't play a hybrid you forfeit your raid spot. Not the game it was? Absolutely. Not the game people wish it was? Absolutely.
    Lol okay, because Warlocks and mages aren't the most highly sought after classes for both 10 and 25 man raiding guilds (And Rogues for Melee).

    Either you're behind on the times or you need to improve your knowledge on pure DPS classes.

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