Hail to the Mad King Ryan
1st Generation: Souls from Orc Warlocks placed into the corpses of Stormwind Knights. (Old Horde, Stormreaver/Twilight's Hammer Clan, Horde of Draenor.)
2nd Generation: Jaded and bitter Paladins that Traveled North to confront the Source of the Plague/Men that were convinced to join the Cult of the Damned (The Scourge)
*The Warcraft III manual refers to Arthas as the first however, when referring to these they use plural versions of words like 'Paladin' implying there is more than Arthas. We also know that the next two Death Knights, Falric and Marwyn were 3rd Generation. Perhaps there were others that came shortly after Arthas, perhaps the Warcraft III manual was retconned.
3rd Generation: Paladins and Warriors slain fighting against the Scourge, that were reanimated and handed runeblades. (The Scourge)
~Ebon Blade Split~ (Still 3rd Generation)
Basically what I had meant was, whether or not 2nd and 3rd generation Death Knights would really be considered different from one another. They arrive at the point of Death Knight by different means, however, the "Death Knight" that both generations become, is the exact same thing. Basically much different than say, either generation of Scourge Death Knights, compared to Gul'dan's Death Knights.
As I said though, even that is up in the air. Especially considering the limited information we have on the 2nd generation of Death Knights.
"im upset demon hunters wont be a class, here are some irrelevent reasons why death knights shouldnt be a class and blizz is so ironic lolswag"
the people who want demon hunter as a spec for warlocks want it to be a tank spec.
so basically anyone who wants to have a dps demon hunter gets told to shut up and suck it up.
i can see it as its own class.
Hail to the Mad King Ryan
Vanilla: Demon Hunter's WC3 abilities get divided among Rogues, Priests and Warlocks.
TBC: Demon Hunter's aren't introduced as a class. Instead are introduced as antagonists with mainly Warlock and Rogue abilities. Players eradicate them by the truckload. We also Kill Illidan in the process. Illidan's blindfold and Warglaives are legendary drops that certain classes can equip.
WotLK: Warlocks receive metamorphosis, the final unclaimed DH spell from WC3. Blizzard used Illidan as the model for the metamorphosis demon graphic. From that point thereafter, Illidan is referred to as a demon throughout Blizzard and Warcraft lore.
Cataclysm: Warlocks receive more NPC-based DH abilities. Metamorphosis is expanded. Well of Eternity instance showcases Illidan using DH abilities that will wind up in the Warlock class in the next expansion.
MoP: Mana Burn is removed from the game. Warlocks are redesigned. Demonology spec receives an expanded version of Metamorphosis, a new demon form called Dark Apotheosis which allows them to fight in melee range. Warlocks receive a armor set that is based on Demon Hunters. Warlocks receive a DH-based talent called Grimore of Sacrifice. Warlocks receive almost all of Illidan's abilities from Well of Eternity. GhostCrawler mentions that Demon Hunter's design space is occupied by several existing classes.
WoD: Warlocks are receiving a level 100 talent that allows them to stay in Metamorphosis on a semi-permanent basis. A Blizzard dev mentions that there are no plans to introduce a Demon Hunter class into the game.
If you can't look at that and see a definitive pattern in Blizzard's design path in terms of Warlocks and DHs, you are the one that is delusional.
Last edited by Teriz; 2014-02-08 at 12:19 AM.
Another point, Demon Hunters don't use Metamorphosis as a permanent ability, it's more of an "oh shit, a lot of enemies, HULK SMASH" sort of ability. It would be a CD just like in WC3, not switch every 5 seconds ability. I do see the problem with it mirroring the Demo Warlock's ability, but that's one of the many abilities a Demon Hunter would have.
Also, where did a blue say that Demon Hunters weren't going to be a class, or did you just make that up?
Duplicated for balance purposes. If only one class had a fear mechanic, it would be OP. The same goes for shields, projectiles, and other mechanics.not to mention all of the duplication abilities present in classes already. Howl of Terror=Psychic Scream, Flash of Light=Flash Heal, Fireball=almost every other miscellaneous projectile spell. All classes are similar and different in their own ways.
When Metamorphosis first entered the Warlock class, it was a CD on a 3 minute cooldown. It was expanded upon in MoP to become a resource.Another point, Demon Hunters don't use Metamorphosis as a permanent ability, it's more of an "oh shit, a lot of enemies, HULK SMASH" sort of ability. It would be a CD just like in WC3, not switch every 5 seconds ability. I do see the problem with it mirroring the Demo Warlock's ability, but that's one of the many abilities a Demon Hunter would have.
BTW, the notion that Warlocks somehow have a different ability than the DH version is a laughable argument. The fundamental purpose behind Meta is to transform the character into a demon and empower themselves. That's exactly what the DH version did in WC3, and that's exactly what the Warlock version does now in WoW.
Also, where did a blue say that Demon Hunters weren't going to be a class, or did you just make that up?https://twitter.com/CM_Zarhym/status/420667313461792768TheJp [email protected] Jan 7
@CM_Zarhym Can you help put this to rest cos its driving me nuts on mmo champ. Will Demon Hunter EVER be a thing in the future as a class?
@Jp3970 There are no plans to share at this time about the possibility of a Demon Hunter class in WoW.
1:24 PM - 7 Jan 2014
TheJp [email protected] Jan 7
@CM_Zarhym man was hoping for a resounding 'no', to many abilities cross with locks.Theres the potential for it in the future by your ans?
Zarhym [email protected]_Zarhym Jan 7
@Jp3970 I mean, there's potential for any class when you put it that way. But we have no plans for Demon Hunter.
Main argument I have against Demon Hunters is that we already have 2 leather wearing dual wielding melee classes, we dont really need a 3rd. They fit in perfectly lore wise, but gameplay wise not so much.
If Hunters and Shamans, characters in Warcraft 3 that were bare-chested wearing animal skin loin cloths, could be considered Mail-wearers in WoW, the Demon Hunter would fit right in.
You guys do realize any class can exist as long as Blizzard wants it to exist, right? There's no spells or lore that can stop them from adding it because they'll find a way around it like always. Demon Hunter, Tinker, Dragonsworn or a Timewalker, it doesn't matter because all of them are a possibility depending on what Blizzard wants.
"A NAME IS A CLOAK OF LETTERS THROWN UPON A MAN. IT MEANS NOTHING." - Transcendent One, Planescape: Torment.
With DH it's more that their design space has been sliced up and parceled out heavily among other classes. Blizzard can pull a DK and invent brand-new design spaces for DH, but then it won't feel like the DH everyone is expecting. If they stick to a more traditional feel, there will be a lot of "lol melee warlock" responses and/or indignance from Locks that their kit is being diverted from them.
Possible? Yes. Likely? I'm sceptical, not because of the class itself, but because of the reward:investment factor of making a class that's had its guts integrated so much into others.
To clarify, I would personally love a DH class (or Lock subspec). I'm just not holding my breath.
I get the point you're trying to make, but honestly, it's pretty poor.
Those comparisons are very loose, not to mention that you're pulling stuff from several different classes. A demon hunter would essentially be a Warlock crossed with a Rogue, whereas a Death Knight (according to you) incorporates ideas from several different classes.
Not that I'm specifically against Demon Hunters as a class, I'd just rather they done something more unique than just "melee warlock". Because of that, I don't see why people are so hyped about them, aside from just "Illidan looks cool."
Not sure if I'd want this, but a Tinker for example, would be thematically very different from the other classes.
Last edited by Erto; 2014-02-08 at 03:52 PM.