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  1. #61
    Quote Originally Posted by Wildberry View Post
    Basically, the one thing I'm unsure of (Considering we haven't had any official response) is whether or the g2 and g3 Death Knights would really classify as seperate groups (at least in the way g1 and g2 death knights do.) considering they both really have the same purpose , they just arrive at point X in different ways (Arthas wasn't the only Death Knight who never actually died, so g2 is more than just Arthas.) It could be a point of future debate, I suppose.
    i dont consider arthas a G3 because he was never killed and raise so he is a G2 there might have been other but we never saw any. his soul was sucked out and he became a death knight. the only different between G2 and G3 is how the became to be.
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  2. #62
    Scarab Lord Wildberry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darkvoltinx View Post
    i dont consider arthas a G3 because he was never killed and raise so he is a G2 there might have been other but we never saw any. his soul was sucked out and he became a death knight. the only different between G2 and G3 is how the became to be.
    Nonono, you misunderstand, sorry for the lack of clarity in my previous post. Let me attempt to clarify what I meant.

    Death Knights:

    1st Generation: Souls from Orc Warlocks placed into the corpses of Stormwind Knights. (Old Horde, Stormreaver/Twilight's Hammer Clan, Horde of Draenor.)
    -Teron Gorefiend
    -Ragnok
    -Gaz Soulripper
    2nd Generation: Jaded and bitter Paladins that Traveled North to confront the Source of the Plague/Men that were convinced to join the Cult of the Damned (The Scourge)
    -Arthas Menethil
    -Baron Rivendare

    *The Warcraft III manual refers to Arthas as the first however, when referring to these they use plural versions of words like 'Paladin' implying there is more than Arthas. We also know that the next two Death Knights, Falric and Marwyn were 3rd Generation. Perhaps there were others that came shortly after Arthas, perhaps the Warcraft III manual was retconned.

    3rd Generation: Paladins and Warriors slain fighting against the Scourge, that were reanimated and handed runeblades. (The Scourge)
    -Falric
    -Marwyn
    -Thane Kor'thazz
    -Lady Blameux
    -Sir Zeliek
    -Alexandros Mograine
    -Dranosh Saurfang
    -Instructor Razuvious
    ~Ebon Blade Split~ (Still 3rd Generation)
    -Darion Mograine
    -Koltira Deathweaver
    -Thassarian

    Basically what I had meant was, whether or not 2nd and 3rd generation Death Knights would really be considered different from one another. They arrive at the point of Death Knight by different means, however, the "Death Knight" that both generations become, is the exact same thing. Basically much different than say, either generation of Scourge Death Knights, compared to Gul'dan's Death Knights.

    As I said though, even that is up in the air. Especially considering the limited information we have on the 2nd generation of Death Knights.
    Quote Originally Posted by ImportantLoreInformation View Post
    Seriously. Can this guy please be banned from the forums?
    Quote Originally Posted by JimPaladin View Post
    Could we just get this fucking clown a ban or something? Pretty please?

  3. #63
    "im upset demon hunters wont be a class, here are some irrelevent reasons why death knights shouldnt be a class and blizz is so ironic lolswag"

  4. #64
    Scarab Lord Wildberry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Part View Post
    "im upset demon hunters wont be a class, here are some irrelevent reasons why death knights shouldnt be a class and blizz is so ironic lolswag"
    Do you work at Blizzard and/or have a confirmation that Demon Hunters will never be a class?

    No?

    Then please, if you're going to post, post something worthwhile.
    Quote Originally Posted by ImportantLoreInformation View Post
    Seriously. Can this guy please be banned from the forums?
    Quote Originally Posted by JimPaladin View Post
    Could we just get this fucking clown a ban or something? Pretty please?

  5. #65
    the people who want demon hunter as a spec for warlocks want it to be a tank spec.
    so basically anyone who wants to have a dps demon hunter gets told to shut up and suck it up.

    i can see it as its own class.
    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte.../Zanjin/simple horde main
    http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...2#post25856782
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  6. #66
    Elemental Lord Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wildberry View Post
    Do you work at Blizzard and/or have a confirmation that Demon Hunters will never be a class?

    No?

    Then please, if you're going to post, post something worthwhile.
    You can look at Blizzard's design decisions for the last 7 years and recognize that it won't be a class.

    The writing's on the wall.

  7. #67
    Quote Originally Posted by Superman-BladesEdge View Post
    Agreed, plus, the premise of the DK was a fallen hero (some other class) who has been risen again to work for the LK. Technically, a Frost DK was a Frost Mage before he was killed. An Unholy DK was a warlock in his last life, and a Blood DK likely a straight up warrior or paladin. Possibly even a Druid (all them self heals). DKs make sense. A race that worked for the Burning Legion, really not much sense.

    Then again, I am not a stickler to Lore, so if you can convince Blizz... more power to you.
    You're right actually, never thought of it this way even though it totally makes sense. I always thought of DK as someone raised from the dead, not necessarily a fallen hero. Thinking of them as fallen heroes though - much more appealing.

  8. #68
    Scarab Lord Wildberry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    You can look at Blizzard's design decisions for the last 7 years and recognize that it won't be a class.

    The writing's on the wall.
    Blizzard's design decisions over the past 7 years hardly points any one direction.

    You are just delusional.
    Quote Originally Posted by ImportantLoreInformation View Post
    Seriously. Can this guy please be banned from the forums?
    Quote Originally Posted by JimPaladin View Post
    Could we just get this fucking clown a ban or something? Pretty please?

  9. #69
    Quote Originally Posted by Ciddy View Post
    Yes. Actually, the first Death Knights were Warlocks. When Doomhammer became Warchief, one of the first things he did was wipe out the Shadow Council (Gul'dan's group of warlocks). Gul'dan brought them back to life, but he put their spirits in the bodies of dead Stormwind soldiers. Basically, they were the spirits of slain Orc Warlocks, brought back to life in the bodies of human men. Teron Gorefiend was the first Death Knight.

    Also, those Death Knights were very different from Arthas / Lich King and his Death Knights.
    to more accurate it was human knights, not any type of human soldiers...

  10. #70
    Elemental Lord Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wildberry View Post
    Blizzard's design decisions over the past 7 years hardly points any one direction.

    You are just delusional.
    Well let's take a trip down memory lane shall we?

    Vanilla: Demon Hunter's WC3 abilities get divided among Rogues, Priests and Warlocks.

    TBC: Demon Hunter's aren't introduced as a class. Instead are introduced as antagonists with mainly Warlock and Rogue abilities. Players eradicate them by the truckload. We also Kill Illidan in the process. Illidan's blindfold and Warglaives are legendary drops that certain classes can equip.

    WotLK: Warlocks receive metamorphosis, the final unclaimed DH spell from WC3. Blizzard used Illidan as the model for the metamorphosis demon graphic. From that point thereafter, Illidan is referred to as a demon throughout Blizzard and Warcraft lore.

    Cataclysm: Warlocks receive more NPC-based DH abilities. Metamorphosis is expanded. Well of Eternity instance showcases Illidan using DH abilities that will wind up in the Warlock class in the next expansion.

    MoP: Mana Burn is removed from the game. Warlocks are redesigned. Demonology spec receives an expanded version of Metamorphosis, a new demon form called Dark Apotheosis which allows them to fight in melee range. Warlocks receive a armor set that is based on Demon Hunters. Warlocks receive a DH-based talent called Grimore of Sacrifice. Warlocks receive almost all of Illidan's abilities from Well of Eternity. GhostCrawler mentions that Demon Hunter's design space is occupied by several existing classes.

    WoD: Warlocks are receiving a level 100 talent that allows them to stay in Metamorphosis on a semi-permanent basis. A Blizzard dev mentions that there are no plans to introduce a Demon Hunter class into the game.

    If you can't look at that and see a definitive pattern in Blizzard's design path in terms of Warlocks and DHs, you are the one that is delusional.
    Last edited by Teriz; 2014-02-08 at 12:19 AM.

  11. #71
    Brewmaster Caninese's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Well let's take a trip down memory lane shall we?

    Vanilla: Demon Hunter's WC3 abilities get divided among Rogues, Priests and Warlocks.

    TBC: Demon Hunter's aren't introduced as a class. Instead are introduced as antagonists with mainly Warlock and Rogue abilities. Players eradicate them by the truckload. We also Kill Illidan in the process. Illidan's blindfold and Warglaives are legendary drops that certain classes can equip.

    WotLK: Warlocks receive metamorphosis, the final unclaimed DH spell from WC3. Blizzard used Illidan as the model for the metamorphosis demon graphic. From that point thereafter, Illidan is referred to as a demon throughout Blizzard and Warcraft lore.

    Cataclysm: Warlocks receive more NPC-based DH abilities. Metamorphosis is expanded. Well of Eternity instance showcases Illidan using DH abilities that will wind up in the Warlock class in the next expansion.

    MoP: Mana Burn is removed from the game. Warlocks are redesigned. Demonology spec receives an expanded version of Metamorphosis, a new demon form called Dark Apotheosis which allows them to fight in melee range. Warlocks receive a armor set that is based on Demon Hunters. Warlocks receive a DH-based talent called Grimore of Sacrifice. Warlocks receive almost all of Illidan's abilities from Well of Eternity. GhostCrawler mentions that Demon Hunter's design space is occupied by several existing classes.

    WoD: Warlocks are receiving a level 100 talent that allows them to stay in Metamorphosis on a semi-permanent basis. A Blizzard dev mentions that there are no plans to introduce a Demon Hunter class into the game.

    If you can't look at that and see a definitive pattern in Blizzard's design path in terms of Warlocks and DHs, you are the one that is delusional.
    This argument always leaves the fact out that classes have more than 4 abilities, not to mention all of the duplication abilities present in classes already. Howl of Terror=Psychic Scream, Flash of Light=Flash Heal, Fireball=almost every other miscellaneous projectile spell. All classes are similar and different in their own ways.

    Another point, Demon Hunters don't use Metamorphosis as a permanent ability, it's more of an "oh shit, a lot of enemies, HULK SMASH" sort of ability. It would be a CD just like in WC3, not switch every 5 seconds ability. I do see the problem with it mirroring the Demo Warlock's ability, but that's one of the many abilities a Demon Hunter would have.

    Also, where did a blue say that Demon Hunters weren't going to be a class, or did you just make that up?

  12. #72
    Elemental Lord Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Caninese View Post
    This argument always leaves the fact out that classes have more than 4 abilities,
    WC3 abilities form the core base of every WoW class. Death Knights didn't have their WC3 abilities farmed out to other classes before their implementation, and neither did Monks. It stands to reason that Demon Hunters would follow suit if they were a viable class for implementation.

    not to mention all of the duplication abilities present in classes already. Howl of Terror=Psychic Scream, Flash of Light=Flash Heal, Fireball=almost every other miscellaneous projectile spell. All classes are similar and different in their own ways.
    Duplicated for balance purposes. If only one class had a fear mechanic, it would be OP. The same goes for shields, projectiles, and other mechanics.

    Another point, Demon Hunters don't use Metamorphosis as a permanent ability, it's more of an "oh shit, a lot of enemies, HULK SMASH" sort of ability. It would be a CD just like in WC3, not switch every 5 seconds ability. I do see the problem with it mirroring the Demo Warlock's ability, but that's one of the many abilities a Demon Hunter would have.
    When Metamorphosis first entered the Warlock class, it was a CD on a 3 minute cooldown. It was expanded upon in MoP to become a resource.

    BTW, the notion that Warlocks somehow have a different ability than the DH version is a laughable argument. The fundamental purpose behind Meta is to transform the character into a demon and empower themselves. That's exactly what the DH version did in WC3, and that's exactly what the Warlock version does now in WoW.

    Also, where did a blue say that Demon Hunters weren't going to be a class, or did you just make that up?
    TheJp ‏@Jp3970 Jan 7
    @CM_Zarhym Can you help put this to rest cos its driving me nuts on mmo champ. Will Demon Hunter EVER be a thing in the future as a class?

    @CM_Zarhym
    @Jp3970 There are no plans to share at this time about the possibility of a Demon Hunter class in WoW.

    1:24 PM - 7 Jan 2014
    TheJp ‏@Jp3970 Jan 7
    @CM_Zarhym man was hoping for a resounding 'no', to many abilities cross with locks.Theres the potential for it in the future by your ans?

    Zarhym ‏@CM_Zarhym Jan 7
    @Jp3970 I mean, there's potential for any class when you put it that way. But we have no plans for Demon Hunter.
    https://twitter.com/CM_Zarhym/status/420667313461792768

  13. #73
    Main argument I have against Demon Hunters is that we already have 2 leather wearing dual wielding melee classes, we dont really need a 3rd. They fit in perfectly lore wise, but gameplay wise not so much.

  14. #74
    Quote Originally Posted by Sandrox View Post
    Main argument I have against Demon Hunters is that we already have 2 leather wearing dual wielding melee classes, we dont really need a 3rd. They fit in perfectly lore wise, but gameplay wise not so much.
    Demon Hunters can wear mail.

    http://www.wowhead.com/item=3536/demon-hunter-blindfold

    If Hunters and Shamans, characters in Warcraft 3 that were bare-chested wearing animal skin loin cloths, could be considered Mail-wearers in WoW, the Demon Hunter would fit right in.

  15. #75
    Pit Lord Adoxe's Avatar
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    You guys do realize any class can exist as long as Blizzard wants it to exist, right? There's no spells or lore that can stop them from adding it because they'll find a way around it like always. Demon Hunter, Tinker, Dragonsworn or a Timewalker, it doesn't matter because all of them are a possibility depending on what Blizzard wants.
    Formerly known as NonameXADX

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  16. #76
    Elemental Lord Haven's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arberian View Post
    1-They use Frost Magic( That the Mages use , and that can be easily incorporated into the Frost Mage spec allowing Frost Mages to carry heavy armor) , Dark Magic( Which Warlocks could use and that means that Warlocks can also raise the Dead) , Blood Magic ( Which Warlocks also use: Blood Horror) .
    2- Death knights imbue the Weapons with Frost/Unholy Powers. Rogues can also imbue the weapons with Magic , the Shamans too.
    3- Death Knights use Death Coil which is Similar to Mortal Coil.
    4- the Frost Plague and Blood Plague can be easily incorporated into the Frost Mage spec and into the Affliction Spec.
    5- Death pact is similar to Warlocks Sacrifical Pact.
    6- They can dual wield---> Which Shamans , Rogues and Fury Warriors also do.
    7- Runic Power is taken from the Imbued Blade and Shamans can imbue the Weapons too.
    8- All their spells can be used by Warlocks and Mages.
    9- All their Shadow Magic they use can also be used by Warlocks including Raise Dead.

    Ironic Thread about the differences between Demon Hunters and Warlocks. The similarities i wrote above are the proof that Blizzard didnt care about the similarities between classes and that Blizzard created the Death Knight . The similarities didnt stop Blizzard from creating both Paladins and Priests. So guys any other ideas why Paladins and Death Knights must no exist ?!
    Blizzard created new spells for the DKs and that can also be done also for the Demon Hunters.
    Whoa, you pulled that so hard it ripped, and a bit of this post is still dangling from the metaphoric ass Now, which other class is necromancy-themed? Try to beat this!
    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Jensen View Post
    Metzenphrenia. As defined in the DSM: "To be so badly written, that it drives the character into insanity." It's symptoms are similar to schizophrenia but even crazier.
    "There are no answers, only choices" - Solaris.

  17. #77
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    You can look at Blizzard's design decisions for the last 7 years and recognize that it won't be a class.

    The writing's on the wall.
    *there will be no character transfers
    *there won't be name changes
    *there won't be faction changes
    *there won't be character changes
    *there won't be a shop


    Oh look, blizz changed their mind in the last 10 years

  18. #78
    Herald of the Titans Lovestar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rarhyx View Post
    *there will be no character transfers
    *there won't be name changes
    *there won't be faction changes
    *there won't be character changes
    *there won't be a shop


    Oh look, blizz changed their mind in the last 10 years
    Well yeah, but those were just stubbornness / conservatism, there was no conceptual obstacle there and the time invested vs. reward was reliably high. They just resisted taking that reward because of conceptual reservations.

    With DH it's more that their design space has been sliced up and parceled out heavily among other classes. Blizzard can pull a DK and invent brand-new design spaces for DH, but then it won't feel like the DH everyone is expecting. If they stick to a more traditional feel, there will be a lot of "lol melee warlock" responses and/or indignance from Locks that their kit is being diverted from them.

    Possible? Yes. Likely? I'm sceptical, not because of the class itself, but because of the reward:investment factor of making a class that's had its guts integrated so much into others.

    To clarify, I would personally love a DH class (or Lock subspec). I'm just not holding my breath.

  19. #79
    I get the point you're trying to make, but honestly, it's pretty poor.

    Those comparisons are very loose, not to mention that you're pulling stuff from several different classes. A demon hunter would essentially be a Warlock crossed with a Rogue, whereas a Death Knight (according to you) incorporates ideas from several different classes.

    Not that I'm specifically against Demon Hunters as a class, I'd just rather they done something more unique than just "melee warlock". Because of that, I don't see why people are so hyped about them, aside from just "Illidan looks cool."

    Not sure if I'd want this, but a Tinker for example, would be thematically very different from the other classes.
    Last edited by Erto; 2014-02-08 at 03:52 PM.

  20. #80
    Elemental Lord Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NonameXADX View Post
    You guys do realize any class can exist as long as Blizzard wants it to exist, right? There's no spells or lore that can stop them from adding it because they'll find a way around it like always. Demon Hunter, Tinker, Dragonsworn or a Timewalker, it doesn't matter because all of them are a possibility depending on what Blizzard wants.
    You do realize that it is Blizzard themselves making Demon Hunters difficult to implement into the game right? It is Blizzard that doesn't want Demon Hunters in the game, not some invisible hand out of their control.

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