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  1. #321
    HA HA HA HA HA!!!

    Infracted - please post constructively
    Last edited by Kasierith; 2014-02-08 at 05:13 PM.

  2. #322
    Quote Originally Posted by Flura View Post
    Hey America keep your opinions to yourself, if i look at you the only thing i see right now is massive debt and money with no value...

    Everyone should put his own house in order first.
    Case in point ^

    Austria. I'm sure Flura has known hard times in one of the richest countries in Europe and one of the highest HDIs in the world.

    Massive debt? American public debt is 72.5% of GDP.
    http://www.indexmundi.com/united_sta...blic_debt.html

    Austria? 73.4% of GDP
    http://www.indexmundi.com/austria/public_debt.html


    So in fact, as a function of GDP (which is what matters) Austria has more public debt than the US.

    Chances Flura knew this before their pointless and factually incorrect snipe? Zero.

    People say things like this, with such bile, from places like Vienna. It's hysterical to me.

  3. #323
    Quote Originally Posted by Skroesec View Post
    I really appreciate the compliment

    I've been writing like this for a long time. It's a hobby really. Foreign policy is my big hobby (along with WoW obviously). There have been times in my life I read about it more than I do works in my profession (computer science). Forums like this have long been wonderful for me, because they give me a chance to talk about what I read, sometimes to educate, sometimes to just present a more reasoned perspective than the frothing at the mouth so common on the internet.

    I know exactly what those folks above are. The first time I really encountered them was not long after 9/11, when I was 18 years old and first came across obnoxious teenagers from Switzerland or some other rich country on the Guardian's CiF board saying they hoped that US Soldiers in Afghanistan found a suicide bomber in every house. Being a teenager with ass for life experience, that pissed me off naturally.

    In the years since, board to board, I've grown to understand exactly where they are coming from. I know what they represent. I know how groundless their positions ultimately are. For all their frothing, the irony is that nothing new or original against US foreign policy has been uttered by anyone since 2004.

    Some, like Hatlatitla, clearly blame the US for their personal or national troubles.

    Others, like Cybran, subscribe to such a widespread set of counterfactual, mostly baseless or extremist beliefs, that their reflexive anti-Americanism is actually the least interesting thing about them.

    Some, are hopeless utopians and view the US as an obstacle. They think that everyone minding their own business would lead to world peace, because they honestly think countries can honestly agree to non-interference as a principle and stick to it. This also includes folks who want the United Federation of Planets to be a real thing.

    The biggest source of these folks comes from the reach of US policy - in many ways between economics and foreign policy, it effects them as much as their national governments policies, but they have no vote over it, thus bringing about resentment.

    Some, none, or all of this applies to different folks, here and on other boards. People have their own motivations. But you've correctly identified the difference between them and me: I identify with one of the two main American schools of International relations theory, (neo)realism (in contrast to (neo)liberalism), so my positions have a philosophical basis. Those people above, they mostly just have a list of things they dislike and a list of things they like. That's really not good enough, especially when formulating policy.

    The point isn't ever to "win" with them. I'm a good 10 years past that mattering in my excitation of this hobby. I honestly don't ever expect someone as thoroughly and comprehensively intellectually dishonest as Djalil, or the dozens people exactly like him I've engaged with over the years to ever say "you're right Skroesec". If one person reads it, and it makes them think, that's good enough for me. Hell, in writing them, often times I learn things too, so it's immensely satisfying (indeed, if it wasn't, why do it at all?). This thread in particular has been my favorite thread in months. It's like Christmas to me. It's all my favorite topics rolled into one.

    But I know exactly how this goes and I havent met a single person in ages that has phased me with this stuff. Obnoxiousness is always annoying, but i mostly pretend it isn't there and provide an answer, so when Americans and more open and fair minded non-Americans read what I have provided, they have a more full perspective. I'm very hard on America too, as other threads show. European single-payer style health care is the only way to go. The ESA's $5 billion budget is making an utter mockery out of NASA's $17 billion. The French limits on campaign finance (and political campaigns in general) is some of my favorite policies in the entire world and would single handedly fix most of what is wrong with the US political system.

    But when it comes to foreign policy, I know exactly what the United States is and where it lies in the world: the world's only superpower with a unequalled reach, resources, and professionalism, but extraordinarily clumsy, impatient and utterly without much in the way of Grand Strategy, in a world where every two-bit President and Prime minister is all to eager to describe their nations as a <Insert Blank> superpower (i.e. "Hockey Superpower", "Coal Superpower", "Fishing Superpower"). The world is utterly anarchic, and hopelessly corrupt. Internationalism is utterly ineffective and its rare success is the exception, rather than the rule. The 193 states of the world, the only true power that there is, are inherently aggressive, and the best defense against that is offense. By us. By any country that wants to protect itself from everyone else's predatory nature. Putting that perspective out there to educate is entirely worth the effort.
    Ahahah.
    "How to talk my way out of the bullshit I've said"
    By skroesec.
    So much rant, and still you have been called out on all your bullshit but hey. You're right, we're all rich Swiss kids. Well spotted skro. You're certainly a man of the world.

    Infracted - please post constructively
    Last edited by Kasierith; 2014-02-08 at 05:14 PM.

  4. #324
    Quote Originally Posted by Skroesec View Post
    Case in point ^

    Austria. I'm sure Flura has known hard times in one of the richest countries in Europe and one of the highest HDIs in the world.

    Massive debt? American public debt is 94.4% of GDP.
    http://www.indexmundi.com/united_sta...blic_debt.html

    Austria? 73.4% of GDP
    http://www.indexmundi.com/austria/public_debt.html


    So in fact, as a function of GDP (which is what matters) Austria has more public debt than the US.

    Chances Flura knew this before their pointless and factually incorrect snipe? Zero.

    People say things like this, with such bile, from places like Vienna. It's hysterical to me.
    fixed it for you. also http://countryeconomy.com/countries/...DP&sc=XE02#tbl the chart on that site shows how Austria debt seems stable while the US isnt.

  5. #325
    Skroesec I enjoy reading your posts. Mix of facts and realism, I think people get pissed off at you because your posts come across as morally absent (perhaps a reflection of the policy you highlight). I think people need to accept that America is the leader of the ship. They promote democracy and human rights globally (then act Authoritarian whenever the mood pleases them). The point is would you rather have Russia or China leading the ship?

    I'll go with chomsky on the defenition of stability (stable to the US) and thats what they are exporting. I like the fact Russia are creating the rage here, they have been playing power games behind the scenes there for years. Brilliant.

  6. #326
    Quote Originally Posted by Djalil View Post
    Ahahah.
    "How to talk my way out of the bullshit I've said"
    By skroesec.
    So much rant, and still you have been called out on all your bullshit but hey. You're right, we're all rich Swiss kids. Well spotted skro. You're certainly a man of the world.

  7. #327
    Stood in the Fire
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    7th Layer of Hell
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    437
    Quote Originally Posted by Korgoth View Post
    US diplomats discussing and giving an opinion over the phone to opposition party members is now dictating to them? Where was the talk about forcing them if they dont comply? I didnt hear it.
    American politicians and most Americans believe they run the entire world, so of course it's dictating.

  8. #328
    Quote Originally Posted by Skroesec View Post
    I really appreciate the compliment

    I've been writing like this for a long time. It's a hobby really. Foreign policy is my big hobby (along with WoW obviously). There have been times in my life I read about it more than I do works in my profession (computer science). Forums like this have long been wonderful for me, because they give me a chance to talk about what I read, sometimes to educate, sometimes to just present a more reasoned perspective than the frothing at the mouth so common on the internet.

    I know exactly what those folks above are. The first time I really encountered them was not long after 9/11, when I was 18 years old and first came across obnoxious teenagers from Switzerland or some other rich country on the Guardian's CiF board saying they hoped that US Soldiers in Afghanistan found a suicide bomber in every house. Being a teenager with ass for life experience, that pissed me off naturally.

    In the years since, board to board, I've grown to understand exactly where they are coming from. I know what they represent. I know how groundless their positions ultimately are. For all their frothing, the irony is that nothing new or original against US foreign policy has been uttered by anyone since 2004.

    Some, like Hatlatitla, clearly blame the US for their personal or national troubles.

    Others, like Cybran, subscribe to such a widespread set of counterfactual, mostly baseless or extremist beliefs, that their reflexive anti-Americanism is actually the least interesting thing about them.

    Some, are hopeless utopians and view the US as an obstacle. They think that everyone minding their own business would lead to world peace, because they honestly think countries can honestly agree to non-interference as a principle and stick to it. This also includes folks who want the United Federation of Planets to be a real thing.

    The biggest source of these folks comes from the reach of US policy - in many ways between economics and foreign policy, it effects them as much as their national governments policies, but they have no vote over it, thus bringing about resentment.

    Some, none, or all of this applies to different folks, here and on other boards. People have their own motivations. But you've correctly identified the difference between them and me: I identify with one of the two main American schools of International relations theory, (neo)realism (in contrast to (neo)liberalism), so my positions have a philosophical basis. Those people above, they mostly just have a list of things they dislike and a list of things they like. That's really not good enough, especially when formulating policy.

    The point isn't ever to "win" with them. I'm a good 10 years past that mattering in my excitation of this hobby. I honestly don't ever expect someone as thoroughly and comprehensively intellectually dishonest as Djalil, or the dozens people exactly like him I've engaged with over the years to ever say "you're right Skroesec". If one person reads it, and it makes them think, that's good enough for me. Hell, in writing them, often times I learn things too, so it's immensely satisfying (indeed, if it wasn't, why do it at all?). This thread in particular has been my favorite thread in months. It's like Christmas to me. It's all my favorite topics rolled into one.

    But I know exactly how this goes and I havent met a single person in ages that has phased me with this stuff. Obnoxiousness is always annoying, but i mostly pretend it isn't there and provide an answer, so when Americans and more open and fair minded non-Americans read what I have provided, they have a more full perspective. I'm very hard on America too, as other threads show. European single-payer style health care is the only way to go. The ESA's $5 billion budget is making an utter mockery out of NASA's $17 billion. The French limits on campaign finance (and political campaigns in general) is some of my favorite policies in the entire world and would single handedly fix most of what is wrong with the US political system.

    But when it comes to foreign policy, I know exactly what the United States is and where it lies in the world: the world's only superpower with a unequalled reach, resources, and professionalism, but extraordinarily clumsy, impatient and utterly without much in the way of Grand Strategy, in a world where every two-bit President and Prime minister is all to eager to describe their nations as a <Insert Blank> superpower (i.e. "Hockey Superpower", "Coal Superpower", "Fishing Superpower"). The world is utterly anarchic, and hopelessly corrupt. Internationalism is utterly ineffective and its rare success is the exception, rather than the rule. The 193 states of the world, the only true power that there is, are inherently aggressive, and the best defense against that is offense. By us. By any country that wants to protect itself from everyone else's predatory nature. Putting that perspective out there to educate is entirely worth the effort.
    You think too much.

    We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal. USA is just another country in the international community. You don't need to have this unnecessary feeling of responsibility nor do you have the ability to be world police, global defender or whatever.

    We need people who is able to put himself in others' shoes and think comprehensively, instead of blind extremist. Without realizing this, you will just get more and more disappointed by USA foreign policy results.

    I don't agree with what you say, but I will defend to death your right to say it.

  9. #329
    Quote Originally Posted by ctd123 View Post
    Skroesec I enjoy reading your posts. Mix of facts and realism, I think people get pissed off at you because your posts come across as morally absent (perhaps a reflection of the policy you highlight). I think people need to accept that America is the leader of the ship. They promote democracy and human rights globally (then act Authoritarian whenever the mood pleases them). The point is would you rather have Russia or China leading the ship?

    I'll go with chomsky on the defenition of stability (stable to the US) and thats what they are exporting. I like the fact Russia are creating the rage here, they have been playing power games behind the scenes there for years. Brilliant.
    Would you min exactly pointing out the fact expressed by skroesec so far?

  10. #330
    Quote Originally Posted by ctd123 View Post
    Skroesec I enjoy reading your posts. Mix of facts and realism
    Especially when he talks about the power grid powered ironman suit soldiers or the orbital nuclear weapon stations, right?

    The guy is just a second gen immigrant from Mexico who is trying way too hard to fit in his new home.
    Last edited by Cybran; 2014-02-08 at 02:15 PM.

  11. #331
    Quote Originally Posted by Cybran View Post
    Especially when he talks about the power grid powered ironman suit soldiers or the orbital nuclear weapon stations, right?

    The guy is just a second gen immigrant from Mexico who is trying way too hard to fit in his new home.
    First, I even said in the posts, about that book (A Forecast of the 21st century), that those particular ideas were rather ridiculous. I even said why: the author with his Iron Men suits decided he wanted Iron Men suits and worked backwards by making power grids for them to hook into as the a key strategic resource in any country being fought in, thus sidestepping the fact that something like a Tony Stark-made Arc Reactor (Alarm clock sized Fusion) is... well... rather improbable, to say the least.

    I even said it was ridiculous (he called the oribtal platforms "BaseStars" for crying out loud... yes, like the Cylon ships in Battlestar Galactica), but the point was about the book was how he highlighted the paths country's political and policy situations could evolve upon, not his fantastical extrapolations of technology. Clearly, it's unlikely Japan will attack our "BaseStars" with missiles disguised as asteroids fired from their moon base in 2050.

    Secondly, that second line is pretty damn racist, and I'm reporting you for it (and for the record, my family is from Colombia, not Mexico), because that is one thing I don't have tolerance for.
    Last edited by Skroesec; 2014-02-08 at 02:40 PM.

  12. #332
    Quote Originally Posted by Skroesec View Post
    my family is from Colombia, not Mexico
    It was a hunch based on the "Mexican Coke is best" statement. I will enjoy my ban don't worry.

  13. #333
    Quote Originally Posted by Cybran View Post
    The guy is just a second gen immigrant from Mexico who is trying way too hard to fit in his new home.
    Always nice to wake up to a daily dose of xenophobia. It's an impressive sentence that takes a shot at two countries and immigration generally.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Cybran View Post
    It was a hunch based on the "Mexican Coke is best" statement.
    Most people here agree that Mexican Coke is just plain better than the corn syrup based formulation that's manufactured in the US.

  14. #334
    Quote Originally Posted by ashblond View Post
    You think too much.

    We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal. USA is just another country in the international community. You don't need to have this unnecessary feeling of responsibility nor do you have the ability to be world police, global defender or whatever.

    We need people who is able to put himself in others' shoes and think comprehensively, instead of blind extremist. Without realizing this, you will just get more and more disappointed by USA foreign policy results.

    I don't agree with what you say, but I will defend to death your right to say it.
    I'm actually extremely pleased with US Foreign Policy for the most part.

    You want to know one time I wasn't pleased? When Poland helped us out in the Iraq War, and George W Bush, in his infinite wisdom (sarcasm), didn't deliver the one thing Poland asked for in return for support: making it easier for Poles to get work visas and immigration visas to the United States, and simplify the process of sending remittances back to Poland.

    That was ten years ago and I still think it's ridiculous. I was thoroughly embarrassed for my country that day. In everyday parlance, the Poles did us a solid, and blew them off. I generally do hold our policy up to the standard that if a country does do something positive for us, we should at least return the favor.

    So I believe you were saying something about me not "putting myself in others shoes"? Because it's not consistent with my feelings about this relatively small, rather unknown, but in my eyes significant foreign policy blunder on our part.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Cybran View Post
    It was a hunch based on the "Mexican Coke is best" statement. I will enjoy my ban don't worry.
    It's okay. They don't even have to. You've effectively made my point for me, about you. You really have nothing.

  15. #335
    Quote Originally Posted by Skroesec View Post
    You really have nothing.
    The sad part is that you think you do.

  16. #336
    Quote Originally Posted by puzzle View Post
    fixed it for you. also http://countryeconomy.com/countries/...DP&sc=XE02#tbl the chart on that site shows how Austria debt seems stable while the US isnt.
    You should actually click my links and read what written under the numbers. Your graph compares apples and oranges.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Cybran View Post
    The sad part is that you think you do.
    All I have to do now, forever, is pretty much just link the time you made a racist swipe at me. "You're gonna listen to a guy who tries to debate like this."

    You're really my favorite type of internet person Cybran.

    The kind the falls on their own sword.

  17. #337
    Gotta love skro.

    -skroesec writes one of his lengthy posts full of faulty points
    -points get countered with facts
    -skroesec resorts to bullying and switches to "personal insult mode".

    Classy man. Clearly a man of the world

  18. #338
    fuck the EU? no, fuck the US who think it is their job to police the world.

  19. #339
    Quote Originally Posted by Skroesec View Post
    you made a racist swipe at me.
    You are going to link to where I made fun of your over zealous blind american nationalism paired with the fact that most of your neo-con buddies would reject you based on your hispanic origin?




    Explaining the joke ruins it.

  20. #340
    High Overlord
    Join Date
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    Austria
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    112
    fuck the EU in its current state and fuck the US who think it is their job to police the world.
    corrected that for you

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