Loot Issues/Loot Discussion

[Nivrax]

Ordos is not counted against them and all raider must have 3 coins at the start of the raid. Ordos is personal, you do that alone. A coin is useless without the guild providing you with the chance to use the coin. Therefore the coin isn't personal, its just another way to gear your raiders which wouldn't of been possible without the raid/guild.

What if some people are burning 2 coins on world bosses? They will have only 1/3 of coined items counted compared to others while having same ilvl.

[Deleted]

It seems this post is full of contradiction. First of all you said getting bonus loot shouldnt count towards loot council loot. Then you go on to say we should have given the item to the Warlock because they are the better dps and the same ilvl upgrade would scale better on him therefore being better for the guild. yet allowing people who coin items to still have equal priority on gear as people who didn't coin is directly reducing your raids strength as your increasing the chance of a lucky person getting fully geared whilst the unlucky roller lags behind. There would have to be some specific rules to avoid coining a really bad item, such as a cloak when you have legendary then baring you from loot. Something like it has to be BiS to be considered a loot council item. Either way, your post was one giant contradiction. I'd also like to point out its not all about DPS. A warlock basically offer nothing to a raid group except damage. Gear on a shadow priest for example increase raid CD such as Vampiric embrace aswell as shield, PoM's and lvl 90 talents which do upwards of 100k HPS on fights such as Thok. Your very narrow minded.

Warlocks provide healthstones.portals and can summon ppl(lots of time saved in a 25man raid).

I would never consider bonus rolls as part of the loot decision. Overall performance and ilvl yes. But you cannot punish people for being lucky. In your cause the loot council did the right decision BUT your wl seems to be a dick. On my raid if this would happen the wl would have passed the item to the one wit 12ilvl below :>

[Deleted]

Loot council based on the biggest upgrade factor if there's more than 1 person needing it. In case of equal upgrade (for example heroic tier drops, both players have normal already in this slot), we just plain /roll, fair and square.

We also have sitout excel table where people rate their upgrades from 0 (no upgrades at all) to 3 (serious uprgades / BIS). Then we're determining optimal setup, comp and loot-preference wise.

Most of the time it's just offspec, transmog or disenchant though. The bane of 10 man loot system.

[Marxman]

It seems this post is full of contradiction. First of all you said getting bonus loot shouldnt count towards loot council loot. Then you go on to say we should have given the item to the Warlock because they are the better dps and the same ilvl upgrade would scale better on him therefore being better for the guild. yet allowing people who coin items to still have equal priority on gear as people who didn't coin is directly reducing your raids strength as your increasing the chance of a lucky person getting fully geared whilst the unlucky roller lags behind.

How is that contradictory? The warlock gains more from gear upgrades than you do. Even if you're at 530 and he's at 575, the item is still better on him if you're upgrading from the same item, as you were in this case. Relative item level means squat. The overall gains of the upgrade are what matter, as well as fair loot distribution. Coins are not loot distribution, they're just a bonus.

I won't get into an argument of raid contribution between Warlocks and Priests. If your Warlock isn't top DPS by a mile then he probably isn't very good. Your healing cooldowns are pretty trivial in comparison to the extra 75-150k DPS he's doing. That's all I'll say.

[clevin]

The other issue with counting coined loot is that someone might very fairly ask "wait, is a coined ring the same as a coined weapon or chest or helm?" And then you're on the slope toward DKP where items have prices, etc.

Oh and coined loot is implicitly counted if the LC is looking at biggest upgrade since people who've been lucky and coined several pieces will probably benefit less from a drop than people who've been unlucky with coins.

[Deleted]

If your end game here is to kill garrosh, then you should do whatever it takes to maximize your loot potential by giving it to the ones with the biggest upgrade, slot wise. The average ilvl should not be a factor here at all.

In this specific case there is no doubt that the warlock deserved the head since he has just a much of an upgrade from it, probably more so, than you.

As for the bonus roll, wether or not your gear comes from bonus roll or not should play no part in looting priority, because if it did it'd disincentivize bonus rolling as a whole and thus slowing down your raid's gear progression.

However, I have the feeling that OP isn't looking for a discussion here judging from his replies, he's just looking for people to confirm his view on the matter so he can feel justified for being butthurt over some loots.

[Alvito]

Ordos is not counted against them and all raider must have 3 coins at the start of the raid. Ordos is personal, you do that alone. A coin is useless without the guild providing you with the chance to use the coin. Therefore the coin isn't personal, its just another way to gear your raiders which wouldn't of been possible without the raid/guild.

You can't know for sure how many coins a person does or doesn't have. This deep in the raid ppl should be at or near the 3k valor cap weekly also, so not having gear fully upgraded looks odd. Now sure you could have just gotten lucky as hell and maxed out multiple pieces but if you just beat the loot pinata that often then you shouldn't be getting a new helmet.

- - - Updated - - -

What if some people are burning 2 coins on world bosses? They will have only 1/3 of coined items counted compared to others while having same ilvl.

Man I hope heroic raiders aren't burning any coins on Ordos/Celestials much less one on each of them. Crazy shit happens though so maybe there is one random person doing that.

[Nivrax]

Man I hope heroic raiders aren't burning any coins on Ordos/Celestials much less one on each of them. Crazy shit happens though so maybe there is one random person doing that.

Well, I hope OP want to make coin changes for next expansion rather than screwing rules in middle of tier. And early on, using bonus rolls on those is of great value.

[Christan]

I'd probably give it to the Lock too. Keep in mind that would be the sole item he would need from the whole instance, whereas everyone else would get everything else that drops.

this, only if the Loot council knew he would stay in game helping out in raids(some ppl - full BiS just quit till next content/expansion)

as far as him coining stuff? that takes nothing away from anyone else.
for you getting fed items / not coining (granted rng, but do you actually work on getting your 3 a week??)

so no, the warlock has received less than you, and you have taken more from the rest of the raid.
it should go to the lock.(if true, have you been keeping track of what he coins vs winning yourself?)

if he is the GM's / loot councils BFF, and they say he's been coining all his drops when in reality he hasn't, then there's corruption in that loot council.

[adynn]

I think there are many issues at play here however I too would probably have given the helm to the lock as long as I knew they were going to stick around.

I will say that while I don't think every coined item should count against someone in loot council, you do want to spread upgrades around where possible (assuming they are equal upgrades for all). This really depends on the group and how much they agree/trust the loot council as there isn't a hard and fast rule for this as counting every coined item can unfairly punish people. Hell, if you're really pushing for progression then you'll give each item to the person it'll do the most good on regardless of their previous luck with loot.

As you have rerolled because your guild needed you to, I certainly wouldn't hold that against you and would prioritize you for loot where possible to get you caught back up to the others.

As other people have said, you do have much more potential for loot on later runs and while I know that can be a bitch of an answer, how would you feel if the positions were reversed? Where someone who needs lots of loot won the only item you needed in the place and also got ~5 bits of loot the week after that while you keep waiting for your last upgrade to drop. I think this also requires trust on your part for your LC that this won't occur for other pieces of loot (so you know you will get upgrades soon), from reading your posts I don't think that trust is there which is a big issue imo.

Now from a performance aspect; in your progression onto the last few bosses, giving gear to the warlock will trump giving it to the spriest for a few reasons. Firstly warlocks are simply higher dps than spriests now, by quite a substantial amount. Secondly because scaling factors are multiplicative in nature, giving gear to the person with higher stats already will lead to a slightly higher dps increase that giving that same bit of gear to someone with lower stats. Also I have to question your guild's damage if you are second on the meters as an spriest 10 ilvls below the rest, that differences in skill just shouldn't be that large in a group that is into the later SoO heroics. Now on multi-target fights I might see it happening depending on comp/gear but you should get left in the dust on any single target focused fight so I think your own portrayal of your skill is unacceptably biased.

Note that the only reason a lot of these factors come up is due to you and the lock having the same helm, I do not view valor upgrades (or lackthereof) as an acceptable consideration for loot councils outside of some very specific scenarios.

TL;DR I think the decision was the correct one, however if I was one of the other members of the LC I would makes sure you knew why this decision happened and that you are definitely going to receive the upgrades you need.

[Illiterate]

Spriests are garbage, of course the loot should go to the lock.

[Marxman]

I do not view valor upgrades (or lackthereof) as an acceptable consideration for loot councils outside of some very specific scenarios.

Basically. In fact it's often quite the opposite: VP upgrades are a given at this stage in the game. Not having VP upgrades indicates lack of effort. I've voted against people in my own guild because they were lacking VP upgrades or hadn't bothered running Flex for upgrades. A lot of LCs wouldn't vote that way, but I think it's important for everyone to know that a lot is expected of our members. Not doing little things like that can mean the difference in 0.5% wipes.

[Splerks]

Will the guild finish the tier easier/faster if the warlock gets the item or the shadowpriest get the item? Whoever is the answer is who should get it. Should really be the only question until you guys kill Garrosh.