BrM Vengeance Benefits

[BuddyLeeX]

So I was thinking how much I was thinking about how much I'm going to miss vengeance and started considering how much vengenace affects only the tank from different class to class. The deeper I got the more I found out how other tank's gain much more personal benefit from vengeance than monks do. When I say personal benefit I am strictly talking about defensive benefit/damage mitigation/personal healing(absorbs).

Paladins Seal of Insight, Eternal Flame & Word of Glory will heal for more. Sacred Shield absorbs will proc bigger absorb shields if EF is not taken.

DKs Death Strike, Blood worms and Blood Shield.

Warriors Shield Barrier(best to use @ 60 rage) with no cooldown.

Druids get Tooth and Claw. Harder the Maul(30 rage - 3 sec cd) hits the more Tooth and Claw effect is set to.

Monks get guard. It costs 2 Chi and is on a 30 second cooldown. It's a super great cooldown but I feel it would be best if the numbers were adjusted and cooldown shortened to 15 seconds.



Does anyone agree or disagree or have anything to correct in my statements or add? My opinion is monks gain less personal damage mitigation/healing/absorbs than the other tanking classes).

[Hummbinger]

Death Strike isn't affected by vengeance (hence neither is Blood Shield), it is only based on only raw damage taken. Monks also get benefit from Expel Harm and Gift of the Ox.

[Alvito]

There are times I wish I could use it faster then the cd allows, however you have enough going on as it is. I don't want to use guard twice as much and over all get less of a shield since it wouldn't be able to soak the same large hits it can now.

[Totaltotemic]

Expel Harm, Gift of the Ox. and Chi Wave/ZS/CB all benefit from Vengeance.

It does not affect Death Strike, Shield of the Righteous, Savage Defense, Elusive Brew, or Shield Block. The oddity here is that it affects Shield Barrier, the only form of constant mitigation that is not gated by some kind of cooldown that also benefits from Vengeance (which is ALSO disturbingly not restricted to only physical damage). BrMs are almost exactly the same as Paladins and Druids when it comes to Vengeance scaling mitigation, it's DKs that are absurdly lacking and Warriors that are mind-bogglingly OP.

[Rockets]

And of course the raid guards are boosted too, but you said personal benefit only.

Also note that they've said that vengeance itself isn't going away, just that it won't grant AP anymore. Defensive abilities will continue to scale with vengeance.

[Raugnaut]

So I was thinking how much I was thinking about how much I'm going to miss vengeance and started considering how much vengenace affects only the tank from different class to class. The deeper I got the more I found out how other tank's gain much more personal benefit from vengeance than monks do. When I say personal benefit I am strictly talking about defensive benefit/damage mitigation/personal healing(absorbs).

Paladins Seal of Insight, Eternal Flame & Word of Glory will heal for more. Sacred Shield absorbs will proc bigger absorb shields if EF is not taken.

DKs Death Strike, Blood worms and Blood Shield.

Warriors Shield Barrier(best to use @ 60 rage) with no cooldown.

Druids get Tooth and Claw. Harder the Maul(30 rage - 3 sec cd) hits the more Tooth and Claw effect is set to.

Monks get guard. It costs 2 Chi and is on a 30 second cooldown. It's a super great cooldown but I feel it would be best if the numbers were adjusted and cooldown shortened to 15 seconds.



Does anyone agree or disagree or have anything to correct in my statements or add? My opinion is monks gain less personal damage mitigation/healing/absorbs than the other tanking classes).

As stated, Death Knights recieve pratically 0 defensive benefit from vengeance. It takes in the area of 500k vengeance before Death Siphon does more raw healing then Death Strike.

Druids also get Frenzied Regen, a self-heal that scales nicely with vengeance.

And, also as stated, monks get Expel Harm, GotO orbs, Healing Spheres, and lvl30 talents scaling with vengeance.

[Siri]

You're missing things (such as frenzied regen for druids) and assuming some things scale with vengeance when they don't (all the DK things). It doesn't really matter though because it's not an important thing to look at, you're much better off looking at what abilities scale with incoming damage rather than which ones scale with vengeance

[BuddyLeeX]

wow I had no clue that DK's death strike and/or blood shields weren't affected by vengeance/AP. That's really poor.

I guess I'm still getting used to the playstyle of a monk - I've tanked all expansion using my paladin until we started getting closer to heroic garrosh and we were in need of a monk tank to kite. I'm still not used to strafing left or right to get a quick burst of healing when I need it from GotO orbs. Expel Harm feels a lot to me like WoG and even EF with 4pce prot paladin set when I'm below 35% health. And I really only get 1 quick small guaranteed heal from Chi Wave. I feel in 25man it never bounces back to me however it does have a short cd.

Also I feel like GotO is really poor on high movement fights such as spoils and paragons. On a fight like Siegecrafter or Thok its really powerful however. I don't feel like that with any of the vengeance affected abilities on my paladin. I feel invincible @ 700-900k vengeance on my paladin but not so much on my monk (although I haven't reached that amount of vengeance tanking a boss yet). I don't want to turn this into a monk vs. paladin thread but I definately I feel that Monks have no sustained absorbs/healing where that is pretty much all Paladins do. I play my warrior a lot too and although I exclusively Shield Block - Shield Barrier is always at my avail and is very OP when I've got decent vengeance. I mainly use it on magic damage abilities and/or when I get to below 35% health and I feel that I am endanger of dying with healthstone on cooldown.

[Totaltotemic]

The difference is that you are nearly invincible on a Monk with high vengeance, you just have to get below 35% to be able to Expel Harm back to 100% instantly. The problem arises when you either have poor planning and don't have the energy to Expel or if you just get hit so hard you go from >35% to dead instantly, but if you don't do something horribly wrong that should never happen. Really tank deaths are just not a thing that happens anymore unless you screw up or are too greedy with damage on your gear.

[Deleted]

Klaxxi can still take a tank from 100%>50%>dead if your not careful with CDs at the end of the fight