1. #1

    Question (Disc) T90 Talents take time to heal, are they effected by buffs gained/dropped?

    Hi,

    When you Cascade, the heal happens when a player receives a bounce. When you Divine Star, the heal happens when the star touches a player on its route. When you Halo, the heal happens when the ring touches a player. None of these T90 talents provide all their healing in one burst at cast time.

    Instead, there's an interim period between cast and heal (when the spell is "in transit").

    In this time, do buffs gained/dropped effect T90 talents that are in-transit? Or are the spell "stats" decided at cast start time (or at cast end time)?

    I'm also curious if haste effects the transit speed of any of these talents. (All T90 talents have some magical thing that moves at a certain speed, maybe they move faster with haste?)

    Knowing the answers to these questions would be helpful in timing these spells.

    Thanks!

    P.S. I guess Prayer of Mending would also be under this umbrella of a spell that has a transit time of sorts. If you know anything about how buffs gained/dropped effect it, I'd be appreciative of hearing that too.
    Last edited by timdotcom; 2015-01-28 at 11:52 AM. Reason: PS

  2. #2
    This is ever so easy to test on your own. Queue for an LFR, wait for a proc to happen, use the spell, while it's still running its round, cancel the proc.

  3. #3
    I don't think it's very easy. During a fight, there's a lot of buffing and debuffing from many sources. Makes is hard to ascertain what's effecting what.

    Maybe I'm missing something though, and you could perform the test if it is as easy as you say?

    Thanks!

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by timdotcom View Post
    I don't think it's very easy. During a fight, there's a lot of buffing and debuffing from many sources. Makes is hard to ascertain what's effecting what.

    Maybe I'm missing something though, and you could perform the test if it is as easy as you say?

    Thanks!
    You don't even need to go to those lengths. Use an intellect potion, cast Divine Star and let both the forward and backwards ticks hit you while the pot is active.
    Then, when the potion is about to run off, cast Divine Star such that the first tick is with the potion applied and the second without. Click it off if needed. Look for a difference in the combat log. That should work. If initial cast buffs is what matters, there should be no difference (barring critical strikes and multistrikes).

    I would check this but I am not anywhere near a computer with a copy of WoW on it.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by timdotcom View Post
    I don't think it's very easy. During a fight, there's a lot of buffing and debuffing from many sources. Makes is hard to ascertain what's effecting what.

    Maybe I'm missing something though, and you could perform the test if it is as easy as you say?

    Thanks!
    How many external short-term buffs do you get that increases the healing per spell cast?

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Aparthia View Post
    How many external short-term buffs do you get that increases the healing per spell cast?
    Arch Angel?

    I'm actually curious about this myself. Most fights I try to cast cascade while I still have >10 seconds left on AA. Sometimes I can't do that and manage to squeeze it out in the last 3 seconds of AA.
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  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by djriff View Post
    Arch Angel?

    I'm actually curious about this myself. Most fights I try to cast cascade while I still have >10 seconds left on AA. Sometimes I can't do that and manage to squeeze it out in the last 3 seconds of AA.
    Archangel is not external, you cast it yourself.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Aparthia View Post
    Archangel is not external, you cast it yourself.
    Totally missed external. Then iirc there are a few increased healing received. Just to name a few off the top of my head:

    Divine Hymn (10% increased healing from the casting priest)
    Amplify Magic
    Vampiric Blood
    Guardian Spirit (up to 200% when glyphed)

    I'm sure there are a few more, I just can't remember them atm.
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  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by djriff View Post
    Totally missed external. Then iirc there are a few increased healing received. Just to name a few off the top of my head:

    Divine Hymn (10% increased healing from the casting priest)
    Amplify Magic
    Vampiric Blood
    Guardian Spirit (up to 200% when glyphed)

    I'm sure there are a few more, I just can't remember them atm.
    Amp and DH could probably be interfering, but the other two are single-targeted and would be easy to filter if you wanted to test this.

    You can also easily check this out of combat in your garrison. Plenty of the npcs receive healing your AE spells. Use an int portion(or AA) as Aimeez suggested, then cancel it before it reaches some targets, then do another where you don't cancel it. If you see a smaller output, you just confirmed whether or not it stick with the buff.
    Last edited by Aparthia; 2015-01-28 at 04:13 PM.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by djriff View Post
    Guardian Spirit (up to 200% when glyphed)
    260%, actually. But now I'm just nitpicking.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Thirteen View Post
    260%, actually. But now I'm just nitpicking.
    Eh it was off the top of my head.
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  12. #12
    From test dummy...testing, I saw that Cascade and Divine Star take the stats of your player at heal time, not at cast time. So make sure you're casting with sufficient time left on your Archangel/weapon enchant proc/int pot/etc. For example, if you cast Cascade with 1 second left on a buff, the buff won't help you.

    My test was to record some heal numbers without any buffs and then some heal numbers while I took an int pot when the spell was in transit.

    As for Halo, I wasn't able to get any consistent numbers. I'd heal for x, stand still in same spot, and then heal for y, even without any buffs of any kind. This is kind of interesting and I think it may have something to do with how Halo is programmed and positioning inaccuracies in the game. It varied in about the 15k to 20k range (dependent on the player's gear/buffs of course). However, the amount healed shot up to around the 25k range with an int pot, so yes, I'd reckon Halo is too effected by buffs at heal time, not at cast time.

    Thanks for the help!

  13. #13
    So if you want to use AA together with these never do it before starting to cast but just after finishing?

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Noradin View Post
    So if you want to use AA together with these never do it before starting to cast but just after finishing?
    For maximum output, YES! With the goal being to get as many casts off inside AA as possible, you can exploit Cascade/Halo/Divine Star's transit time (and use your AA more efficiently) by:

    1. Casting the T90 Spell.
    2. Immediately casting AA (or your int pot or other player-controlled heal buff). Remember, no GCD for it.

    If you cast AA before, you get (18 - cast_time_of_T90) seconds of AA. But if you cast after like above, you get the full (18) seconds to use on other things with no loss in performance.

    You need to be quick though. Divine Star and Halo could heal instantly if players are on top of you. This is a much safer strategy for Cascade as the first bounce always takes a second or two.

    Great insight. I will definitely be updating my rotation.
    Last edited by timdotcom; 2015-01-29 at 01:55 PM.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by timdotcom View Post
    For maximum output, YES! With the goal being to get as many casts off inside AA as possible, you can exploit Cascade/Halo/Divine Star's transit time (and use your AA more efficiently) by:

    1. Casting the T90 Spell.
    2. Immediately casting AA (or your int pot or other player-controlled heal buff). Remember, no GCD for it.

    If you cast AA before, you get (18 - cast_time_of_T90) seconds of AA. But if you cast after like above, you get the full (18) seconds to use on other things with no loss in performance.

    You need to be quick though. Divine Star and Halo could heal instantly if players are on top of you. This is a much safer strategy for Cascade as the first bounce always takes a second or two.

    Great insight. I will definitely be updating my rotation.
    Same. This is fantastic info.
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