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  1. #41

  2. #42
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    I personally feel like DPS is at a very balanced point right now. The issues arise when you transition from a fight like Galakras (multi target) to Iron Jugg (pure single target) and you begin to see the massive DPS gaps which just highlights each spec's utility. I feel like you can lump Spriests and Boomkins together when it comes to single target and yes, they may have to work a little harder than a Warlock, Hunter, or Mage, but every spec has the potential right now. I personally play a mage and in heroic progression, I find myself having to put a little more work in than usual unlike cata which was essentially (1,2,1,2,1,2,1,3,1,2 *tops meters by a sh!t load*).

    With that said, I've been seriously considering switching back to Spriest for WoD (played shadow through Wrath which was....interesting) and I have a feeling they're going to see some nice buffs.

  3. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by Surarn View Post
    Ofc im gonna cheese Malkorok to do better dps, everyone does it.
    And the fact that im ranking higher than Drye means nothing?

    I am going after ranks, means i play to get them. I ranked 3 on Malkorok on that rank and you can check all my ranks. I am always in the top.
    Sure im padding on some bosses but most of them arent padding. Sure i Mind Sear the adds on Sha of Pride and Immerseus but thats needed if you want a high rank on Proraiders.

    The worst padding i do is doing dmg to the yeti on Thok.

    On bosses like Iron Jugg there is a limit to the dps you can do if you dont get lucky with your trinket proccs.
    You completely missed my point. Drye's group is a lot better than yours, and that's why even when he does rank high he still usually gets stomped by the rest of his group.

    The issue with Shadow isn't that it's hard, it's that everything else is pretty much better.

    Quote Originally Posted by Classiccs View Post
    With that said, I've been seriously considering switching back to Spriest for WoD (played shadow through Wrath which was....interesting) and I have a feeling they're going to see some nice buffs.
    I'm actually on the opposite end. I feel like WoD will be more of the same for Shadow and I've been spending a ton of time gearing up both my Warlock and Mage. I haven't enjoyed Shadow at all in MoP.
    Last edited by Cerbz; 2014-02-11 at 06:59 PM.

  4. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by Cerbz View Post
    You completely missed my point. Drye's group is a lot better than yours, and that's why even when he does rank high he still usually gets stomped by the rest of his group.

    The issue with Shadow isn't that it's hard, it's that everything else is pretty much better.


    I'm actually on the opposite end. I feel like WoD will be more of the same for Shadow and I've been spending a ton of gearing up both my Warlock and Mage. I haven't enjoyed Shadow at all in MoP.
    If you check Iron Juggernaut dps my guild have higher dps than they have. Sure they rank high but its mostly on encounters where you can help the raid do more dps. Norushen, Galakras, Shamans and Spoils for example.

    There are so many things that makes you a good Spriest compared to the averages that is out there. Sure i feel that mages and warlocks are better but i feel that most of the problem is that many of the ones complaining isnt good enough.

  5. #45
    When blizzard tries to buff a class which has been the "unfavored" class during the previous expansion it usually ends up being a disaster. So SP's will either be extremely OP (im almost sure that this will be the case) or remain shitty but with different crappy mechanics this time.
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  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by Cerbz View Post
    You ranked on one fight in those logs you linked and that fight was Mal w/ ToF cheese, how is that impressive?
    Surarn already has a lot of ranks, so it's quite unlikely to get new ranks every week. Just because he can't top his personal best doesn't mean that his logs aren't good.

  7. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by Odyseas View Post
    When blizzard tries to buff a class which has been the "unfavored" class during the previous expansion it usually ends up being a disaster. So SP's will either be extremely OP (im almost sure that this will be the case) or remain shitty but with different crappy mechanics this time.
    Except in the case of shadow, where we tend to get massive buffs... but then they already have like 4-5 hotfixes loaded in the chamber which they unload just as they start to see us cheer.
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  8. #48
    Priests don't get buffs, we get bad designs. And if these designs happened to make us op, they are nerfed the following week.

  9. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by Venaliter View Post
    I'm sure they will buff MB by 10%..then revert it a week after the patch is live down to 2%.
    Too soon

    I think WoD is going to fix many of our problems. If they do infact tone down Raid CD's, then they will need to buff us to do competitive dmg, or make a bunch of Divine Star(Ra-den)'esque fights to where we still prove useful in raids. A mana hymn and subpar DPS isn't really worth it.

    As stated previously, our biggest problem is singletarget high movement fights which are really horrid to play for us. A little funny log(no clicky as I haven't posted enough).
    worldoflogs(dot)com/reports/05keclctul0b6gpo/sum/damageDone/?s=3817&e=4044
    Both me and the hunter ranked 14th on this Juggernaut pull. And the difference in Damage Done is very obvious. This might seem correct as this is a fight where hunters should shine, but all other DPS in the raid ranked much lower than me, yet still out damaged me. And this was one of the best performances of a shadow priest on the fight. Sad face.

    That being said, I really don't care too much about immediate changes. I am worried a bit about our future though.

    The DoTless spec has potential to be very scary. I love the idea, even if it takes away from what I loved about shadow, it gives me a different way to play a fight which is exactly what we need. If Shadow sucks on a fight, we can't do anything about it. This gives us the option that pures have, which should help us significantly if it's implemented right. I think it will be great on single target high movement dps fights for example. A 1.7s~ cast is a heck of a lot better than mind flay ticks for stutter stepping, and it will synergise well with Mind Blast Glyph(It Returns in all its glory \o/)

    However, the mastery tweak for the DoTless spec has potential to be very broken. We have a history of being nerfed due to PvP and thus affecting our PvE, and being unable to recieve compensation because it become overpowered in PvP. This is how the DoTless spec arena is going to work.

    1)Whittle someone down to 40%, bank 5 orbs
    2)Silence healer
    3)DP target, Mind Blast, Spam Insanity
    4)SW: D once, DP, SW: D.

    If either of the SW: D's or the Mind Blast proc the mastery, there is no hope for them. We are an elemental shaman with a 5 second blanket silence.
    They could be smart about it, perhaps give direct dmg spells an ICD or reduced dmg against players, but they haven't been smart in the past!

    I am also very sad to hear them say a few times that Affliction Warlocks are going to be THE multidotters(I don't really have source for this, maybe it's a false claim). I miss the days when spriests could compete with them on multidot fights, sadly, they seem to have earned that trophy and their multidot capabilities have far exceeded ours now. We have the potential to receive new tools, making a more interesting secondary resource system. That sadly doesn't look like its happening yet.

    Still, I am looking very forward to WoD. The playing field resets and we have a clean slate to be balanced in. Now giev beta.
    Last edited by Kiitoksia; 2014-02-12 at 02:21 AM.

  10. #50
    @Jomu.
    You know what most guilds do when they finish progression? Modifiy their fight strats to allow people to rank to keep them interested during farm. So just because your guild doesn't do it is not an indicator that other don't, which they do because they said it themselves. You might not count that as "cheesing", but being the only person allowed to i.e aoe the adds for a prolonged period of time will ultimately give you an advantage in ranking over similar class in other guild where they are just bursting them down in a matter of seconds.
    It's pretty common actually.

  11. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by kardacz View Post
    @Jomu.
    You know what most guilds do when they finish progression? Modifiy their fight strats to allow people to rank to keep them interested during farm.
    Not really. When progression is over most raid groups start gearing their alts or actually stop raiding until the next tier. Ranking is hardly an incentive except for people with the need to compensate for their little... dps. Serious raiders are in it for progression and for the lootz, not for ranking, because they know better than anyone that ranking involves a fair amount of RNG and douchebaggery and is actually meaningless.

  12. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by Dierdre View Post
    Not really. When progression is over most raid groups start gearing their alts or actually stop raiding until the next tier. Ranking is hardly an incentive except for people with the need to compensate for their little... dps. Serious raiders are in it for progression and for the lootz, not for ranking, because they know better than anyone that ranking involves a fair amount of RNG and douchebaggery and is actually meaningless.
    You cant just quit raiding until the next tier if you want to compete for the high ranks in WoD. We are just gearing new trials and trying to rank aswell as doing alt raids and alt alt raids

  13. #53
    The biggest buff to spriest is: BASE DAMAGE IS REMOVED IN 6.0.
    Base damage was always the biggest bane of shadows. Since we have TOO much base damage and very very VERY bad scaling we have the problems that others don't have.

    So a very small list how to fix spriest (together with the buffs that are already known):

    1.) Mind Blast cooldown is reduced by haste.
    2.) Better scaling of all our abilities (since base-damage is FINALLY removed)
    3.) Give us an ability that give us 3 orbs before the beginning of the fight or remove them from other classes.

    Fixed.

  14. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by Surarn View Post
    If you check Iron Juggernaut dps my guild have higher dps than they have. Sure they rank high but its mostly on encounters where you can help the raid do more dps. Norushen, Galakras, Shamans and Spoils for example.

    There are so many things that makes you a good Spriest compared to the averages that is out there. Sure i feel that mages and warlocks are better but i feel that most of the problem is that many of the ones complaining isnt good enough.
    This is precisely the kind of attitude and player that needs to disappear from WoW. Everything about your remark is elitist snobbery. Having to bust your butt at 300% the effort (not to be confused with skill) to do damage that still gets you put below 5th place is OBSCENE. At the level of effort that the top % of Spriests are playing they should be in the top 3, if not number 1, almost all the time.

    Outliers are irrelevant, regardless of how big it makes your epeen seem - the overwhelming majority of spriest parses across the game show that their damage across all but the most janky of fights is suboptimal to unviable on certain encounters.

    Gostcrawler is gone, AT LAST. Now we might see Spriests become something competative and enjoyable again for hardcore and casual alike. He played a Holy Priest - is it any wonder Spriests got crapped on for so long? (I've never met a full time Holy Priest who wasn't of the attitude that Priests r 4 healz, L2play Warlock n00b, also plz nerf disc and give me back 2 button spam heals hurrhurrhurr... sorry, the repetativeness of those sentiments is driving me insane).

  15. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by ShadowyFanatic View Post
    (I've never met a full time Holy Priest who wasn't of the attitude that Priests r 4 healz, L2play Warlock n00b, also plz nerf disc and give me back 2 button spam heals hurrhurrhurr... sorry, the repetativeness of those sentiments is driving me insane)
    Please, please don't stereotype people like this. It makes you no better than the guy you're criticizing for his elitism.

    I play a Holy Priest. Was my main in BC, played on and off through Wrath/Cata, and am back playing in MoP. Going to play Holy into WoD. I play Holy, because I like how Holy plays. Do I get frustrated that Disc can embarrass me on meters? Yes, but they only do so in their niche. When the fight caters to Holy, I embarrass them.

    My only real complaint about Disc is the amount of DPS they can put out "for free", whereas with Holy, I have to change my Chakra to Chastise and use offensive spells that don't heal.

    Now, having said all of that, I honestly truly want Shadow to be viable. I love healing, but sometimes I DPS in a raid, maybe I just want to be able to do dailies quickly, or solo old content. A better Shadow spec only makes my life easier and better.

    Instead of infighting with your own class, how about you help convince/get all Priests fighting for a better Shadow spec, instead of only Shadow mains?

    PS- Ghostcrawler leaving is *fingers crossed* going to be great for a lot of specs/classes/the entire game

  16. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by ShadowyFanatic View Post
    This is precisely the kind of attitude and player that needs to disappear from WoW. Everything about your remark is elitist snobbery. Having to bust your butt at 300% the effort (not to be confused with skill) to do damage that still gets you put below 5th place is OBSCENE. At the level of effort that the top % of Spriests are playing they should be in the top 3, if not number 1, almost all the time.

    Outliers are irrelevant, regardless of how big it makes your epeen seem - the overwhelming majority of spriest parses across the game show that their damage across all but the most janky of fights is suboptimal to unviable on certain encounters.

    Gostcrawler is gone, AT LAST. Now we might see Spriests become something competative and enjoyable again for hardcore and casual alike. He played a Holy Priest - is it any wonder Spriests got crapped on for so long? (I've never met a full time Holy Priest who wasn't of the attitude that Priests r 4 healz, L2play Warlock n00b, also plz nerf disc and give me back 2 button spam heals hurrhurrhurr... sorry, the repetativeness of those sentiments is driving me insane).
    Thats why you cant have a conversation with people that think they are good. It isnt easy to take rank 1 or even top 3 on most fights since there are people our there with guilds that let them take the ranks and help them do it. Right now its extremly hard to take high ranks on AoE bosses because of guilds like Pure for example. They bring adds into Nazgrim, they let people solo adds on Immerseus, they have people going down multiple times on Norushen JUST to help people take ranks.

    There is no chance for some people to take the top 3~ ranks when stuff like this is done. My rank 3 on Malkorok is beaten by a guy that have 44% uptime on BBoY. If i had that i would be flying miles above him but no, i have 11.6% uptime on my Toxic Power.

    The rank 1 on Iron Jugg have 40%~ uptime on BBoY and 25%~ uptime on Tox Power. Its not doable to take better ranks than some people when you dont get the trinkets or help to do so.

    Please dont start insulting others when you yourself dont have any idea how to play the game.

  17. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Cokecan View Post
    Wait Do Spriest need buffing ? i am kicking ass on my priest top 5 in the heroic raiding dps charts and I find myself viable in pvp to the point where i'm having fun. Bro do even spriest ?
    Meters please.
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  18. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by Surarn View Post
    Thats why you cant have a conversation with people that think they are good. It isnt easy to take rank 1 or even top 3 on most fights since there are people our there with guilds that let them take the ranks and help them do it. Right now its extremly hard to take high ranks on AoE bosses because of guilds like Pure for example. They bring adds into Nazgrim, they let people solo adds on Immerseus, they have people going down multiple times on Norushen JUST to help people take ranks.

    There is no chance for some people to take the top 3~ ranks when stuff like this is done. My rank 3 on Malkorok is beaten by a guy that have 44% uptime on BBoY. If i had that i would be flying miles above him but no, i have 11.6% uptime on my Toxic Power.

    The rank 1 on Iron Jugg have 40%~ uptime on BBoY and 25%~ uptime on Tox Power. Its not doable to take better ranks than some people when you dont get the trinkets or help to do so.

    Please dont start insulting others when you yourself dont have any idea how to play the game.
    You can do that with a ton of logs. Hell, there's people you've out DPS'd just because you've had better uptime on a trinket or something. It works both ways. It's just part of the game, sadly. And there's 9479349343 reasons why people do/can/can't/don't rank in their respective groups, which is another reason why ranks, IMO for the most part, mean very little especially this expansion.

  19. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by Cerbz View Post
    there's 9479349343 reasons why people do/can/can't/don't rank in their respective groups, which is another reason why ranks, IMO for the most part, mean very little especially this expansion.
    This.

    /tenchar

  20. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by Classiccs View Post
    I feel like you can lump Spriests and Boomkins together when it comes to single target and yes, they may have to work a little harder than a Warlock, Hunter, or Mage, but every spec has the potential right now.
    Boomkin singletarget is amazing. Shadow singletarget feels like a magicarps splash attack

    Also i dont get what is supposed to be hard about playing Boomkin. I have one ilvl 570 and that fat chicken is easily wrecking shit

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Dierdre View Post
    Not really. When progression is over most raid groups start gearing their alts or actually stop raiding until the next tier. Ranking is hardly an incentive except for people with the need to compensate for their little... dps. Serious raiders are in it for progression and for the lootz, not for ranking, because they know better than anyone that ranking involves a fair amount of RNG and douchebaggery and is actually meaningless.
    And you are who to know exactly what top raid grps do ? As far as i'm concerned there are a bunch of people in high end guilds that don't care about alts , and if they do they gear them in order to rank themselves , just like they do with their mains.

    There really is no other reason to keep playing after every boss is on farm. The only people i have come across that say that ranking involves "rng and douchebaggery" are those who have never even closely performed a 100% parse. You know that you can see who cheesed their parses right ? You can see dmged mobs , fight duration etc etc in logs and simply ignore those who obviously manipulated something. Even when i just get a rank 7 or smth and see that 4 people in the top 10 have a fight duration of 2 Minutes or less i ignore them and see myself as rank 4 :P Easy as that.

    You are one of the most frequent posters on this forum, but also one of the people with the least experience this tier ( out of the "veteran" posters ).
    Please don't get upset when i , and i'm sure others think so too, just can't take some of your posts about what top players do and how top plays look like seriously.
    You have killed 10 Bosses so far, your logs aren't public anymore so you have 0 Ranks. As i recall you didn't have any before switching to private
    Last edited by Lazu; 2014-02-13 at 08:23 AM.

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