Thread: Simcraft guide

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  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by CollisionTD View Post

    Storm Bolt:
    In Game: Rolls once to determine if MH attack hits, and if that is successful it rolls again for the off-hand attack. Possible for MH to hit and OH to miss, but not for MH to miss and OH to hit.
    Simcraft: Rolls separately for MH/OH.
    Fixed:
    https://code.google.com/p/simulation...378e76e4d98f21

    It'll be included in the next simcraft update, I'll probably push an update next week.

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Valech View Post
    This actually deserves a sticky and should be in a forum for every class..
    Or maybe just dungeons and raids forum?
    You cannot trust, nor take seriously, an adult male without facial hair.Boys have no facial hair and boys are not men.
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  3. #23
    Warchief Archimtiros's Avatar
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    A simply google search will pull up a couple similar and a few very well done/better; but this is more "direct from the horses mouth" kind of info for people who frequent these forums but don't know how/aren't interested in google searching around, and hopefully broken down and aimed more at Warriors in particular.
    Getting on google and searching something that I don't know is instant-second nature to me, but it still boggles me how many people never think of it, or simply refuse to do it.

  4. #24
    Moderator sjsctt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Warriorsarri View Post
    We have a skype chat in which we are doing the main bulk of our work, but in order to not clutter it more then is needed we only have the people doing the work on there.
    Much talk is had about dubious activity and pad-thalion.

  5. #25
    Herald of the Titans Darkfriend's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sjsctt View Post
    Much talk is had about dubious activity and pad-thalion.
    We also make fun of people. You probably could never guess who they are. (Jal *cough*) NVM.

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by sjsctt View Post
    Much talk is had about dubious activity and pad-thalion.
    i know you guys are tongue in cheek with the super secret club thing but it kinda highlights something i've been wondering about for a while.

    long ago in the days of yore, people discussed it out in the open on elitist jerks, nowadays, there's no easily digestable theorycrafting going on in daylight. why is that?

    as i mentioned earlier in the thread, i don't think i personally have anything to contribute, but you never know.


    If you want to talk to me about wow theorycrafting or anything really: Eranthe#1639

  7. #27
    Herald of the Titans Darkfriend's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eranthe View Post
    i know you guys are tongue in cheek with the super secret club thing but it kinda highlights something i've been wondering about for a while.

    long ago in the days of yore, people discussed it out in the open on elitist jerks, nowadays, there's no easily digestable theorycrafting going on in daylight. why is that?

    as i mentioned earlier in the thread, i don't think i personally have anything to contribute, but you never know.
    There hasn't been a good place for it really. In fact, up until mid T14 there wasn't anything at all until a few of us started to try and get something going. So a few people got really busy on forums, we started talking in skype, working on Sim-C, etc.

    But just for 5.4 I think these people need shout outs for what they've done here on these boards. Archi wrote a kick ass guide, as did reqi for Arms and Fury. Sarri put together a great BiS list. Sjc has been great at answering questions on "Fix DPS" thread. And collision has been doing his Collision Math (TM) all over the place.

    For the future, it's going to depend. I've been trying to get a website up and running, but I have literally no experience doing so so it's slow (that and work+ not much going on in WoW so little to put up. But keep an eye on www.deeperwounds.com someday :P)

    As WoD nears and as we get more information, expect more to come about. It should be a bit clearer now that we have a solid core of people to work with. The goal is to make MMO-C warrior forums *The* best class forums. Which I think they currently are. I'd like to get my site rolling for video guides/more blog type stuff as a compliment to what we have here.

    But there really isn't anywhere else for theorycrafting warriors. EJ died early cata or maybe even before. But honestly there are easily 10+ warriors who frequent these forums who can answer (almost) or maybe all questions, and not with some made up "I think this is best" but more "Data supports doing it this way" answers.

    There is also the issue that with warriors in their current iteration, there really isn't much "mathy" style theorycrafting to do. Our talents are fairly straight forward, and there really isn't much to change rotation wise to discuss. Being good at a warrior is all about knowing the class. And thatis really really had to teach via text, and really hard to explain. There are just so many variables. It's not like a DK where you can change around mastersimple/modified mastersimple/normal DW and get various results with various levels of gear, and where BT/macroed BT/RE/RC all interact with different specs in utility and play. It's more straightforward, but way harder. The "theorycrafting" tends to come at the start of tiers/expansions, and dry up later on.
    Last edited by Darkfriend; 2014-02-13 at 02:43 AM.

  8. #28
    Warchief Archimtiros's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eranthe View Post
    i know you guys are tongue in cheek with the super secret club thing but it kinda highlights something i've been wondering about for a while.

    long ago in the days of yore, people discussed it out in the open on elitist jerks, nowadays, there's no easily digestable theorycrafting going on in daylight. why is that?

    as i mentioned earlier in the thread, i don't think i personally have anything to contribute, but you never know.
    Yeah believe it or not, we actually got to together via MMO-C. Oliria started firing off PM's at some of the more well learned/active posters here and we started talking on Skype because its just a simpler format for ongoing/random discussions without the clutter of a message board that everyone can post on. Anyone who frequents MMO-C can understand how lost a conversation can get once 2, 3, 4, 10+ extra people get involved.
    Not that involvement is a bad thing by any stretch! It just makes it harder to filter.

    EJ was a good forum and I was pretty active there as well throughout BC and Wrath, but it was very much carried by a handful of individuals, once they lost interest it started to crumble, but the reason EJ worked so well is because of its powerful banhammer. Without that, we have to be a little more organized about the way we deliver information here, so that the information doesn't get lost in a sea of voices.

    Everything we discuss gets brought back here by one of us; whether its a lengthy math post by Collision (ex: his post on Haste scaling for WoD), a PvE Raid guide, this SimCraft guide, or just random answers and general advice. The whole point of our little group is to bring more, better information back here.

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Eranthe View Post
    i know you guys are tongue in cheek with the super secret club thing but it kinda highlights something i've been wondering about for a while.

    long ago in the days of yore, people discussed it out in the open on elitist jerks, nowadays, there's no easily digestable theorycrafting going on in daylight. why is that?

    as i mentioned earlier in the thread, i don't think i personally have anything to contribute, but you never know.
    It's out in the daylight, it's just spread out all over the place. All of Cata I had a stickied thread that I kept updated with SMF information, and it's kind of where I got my start as a reliable source of theorycrafting information.

    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/to...0890474?page=1

    As you can tell, I didn't swap to a DK... thankfully. Early beta MoP fury was ... uhhh.... confused?

    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/to...74?page=34#662

    Basic rotation:
    BT-_-_-_-BT

    Blanks will be filled in with:
    Colossus smash > Bloodsurge Wild Strike > Raging Blow > Battle Shout > Wild Strike

    Wild strike hits harder than a colossus smash heroic strike, so there's no reason to use heroic strike as our rage generation isn't high enough to support it.
    When will an enrage happen if you're waiting on it? I'm assuming the following, where you have just used BT and it didn't proc enrage, which means you are forced to use wild strike instead.
    BT-WS-WS-WS-BT-

    .88 = 88% chance of no enrage
    .88^2 = 77%
    .88^3 = 68%
    .88^3*.48 = 32%
    .88^4*.48 = 28%
    .88^5*.48 = 25%
    That was the dark days when enrage increased rage generation, and would have been based only on specials critting, along with a 6 second cd bloodthirst with +40% crit chance.

    I don't like:
    The chance for Bloodthirst to be a critical strike increases the longer it has been since you have been Enraged

    That's just awful design for an ability. How much does the chance increase per second? Does this mean that at the start of an encounter our bloodthirst is guaranteed to crit since technically we are not enraged out of combat?
    This was back when bloodthirst crits gave raging blow, and enrage procs came from auto attack swings. Bleh.

    I tended to stay away from the mmo-c forums early on, the community was really... toxic? I suppose.

    I mainly posted on the official wow forums, and still do post there pretty often. I suppose the main issue is that there has been no centralized source of information ever since EJ's community kind of fell apart, and there was a lot of individual theorycrafting that for whatever reason was never shared.

    The skype thing was put together not to restrict flow of information to the public, but to help put together better guides for everyone to use. It's hard to collaborate with people on a forum, and that opened up the floodgates. I don't think the arms guide on here would have been nearly as good as it is without some of the work that went on in that collaboration.

    Theorycrafting has gone from the older days of a few authoritative people gracing people with nuggets of information to something that is now far closer to a peer-reviewed journal. I believe this approach is the way to go as it no longer relies on a few people, and thus if someone quits the game there isn't a huge loss of information. An example this expansion is Landsoul's Spreadsheet, or the lack of. He's done a lot for the community, and nothing will take that away from him, but he's been MIA most of the expansion most likely due to his new job (?). If we were all relying on him, then there would have been a serious lack of information all expansion.

    We're looking at creating a centralized source for the next expansion, so that there's no longer any question of where to go for good information.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by CollisionTD View Post
    Raging Blow Meat Cleaver:
    In Game: If the main target RB fails to land, all will fail. Otherwise, everything will land.

    Example:
    3 targets, target 1 is selected for the actual raging blow attack, the game will run a hit test on all targets that will be getting hit by raging blow.
    Target 1: Hit
    Target 2/3: All parried

    Even though the game throws parrys at you in your combat log, the ability actually hits all 3 targets.


    However, if the hit test fails on the target you are actually using raging blow on, it will not meat cleave whatsoever.

    The purple "Badge" on the right shows that meat cleaver was active on myself when that event happened.

    Simcraft: Duplicates RB into 2-4 different raging blows, that can all separately fail/succeed.
    Nevermind, apparently I fixed this by accident a while ago. It already functions correctly like in game.

  10. #30
    I must say that I've recognized the lack of theorycrafting information since Cataclysm as well. I was always dependant on Landsoul's work (I have access to his paid area which has not been updated since all MOP).

    Coming back for ToT and SoO progression I must say that these forums here are in a pretty good shape when it comes to good information. Someone who is willing to put in effort will find everything he needs to in this place. And I just wanted to say thank you to everyone involved who keeps this place running and shares his deep knowledge and wisdom of the class (archi, sjctt, darkfriend, collision, sarri and many more). I hope you guys will continue to do so in the future and you guys keep playing and sharing information with the rest of us. It is greatly appreciated. I can just imagine how much work you guys put into this stuff for free and no words can express how greateful we as community should be to have people like you helping others. (end of e-peen stroke)

    Can someone enlighten me what's with the Jalopy jokes here? I was under the assumption that he is also a really good guy and I was so thankful for his awesome Tell Me When Setup which is just really great work.
    Craaw - Frostwolf EU - Jade Falcons 14/14hc

  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by cRawmode View Post
    Can someone enlighten me what's with the Jalopy jokes here? I was under the assumption that he is also a really good guy and I was so thankful for his awesome Tell Me When Setup which is just really great work.
    He's a good player/guy now, we just like to make fun of how bad he was not so long ago. I wish I could have saved the picture of how he managed to perfectly time recklessness to somehow not overlap colossus smash, bloodbath and like 4 other buffs on a single target fight.

  12. #32
    Can someone tell me how to set up Simcraft for tanks please? I followed the starter guide from Sacred Duty (http://www.sacredduty.net/2013/07/16...tting-started/) but I'm getting really weird values.

    Here are the scale factors for my character: http://i.imgur.com/n3Gi5Bl.jpg

    Here are the settings I'm using: http://i.imgur.com/8MUZcy9.jpg and http://i.imgur.com/R9myjl2.jpg

    Where am I going wrong? My character is http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...intie/advanced in case there's something there.

  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Bullshot View Post
    Can someone tell me how to set up Simcraft for tanks please? I followed the starter guide from Sacred Duty... but I'm getting really weird values...
    I'm hitting a similar problem here, says my scaling factors for everything other than stam is negative (and stam is 0.04) would love to know where I'm going wrong?

  14. #34
    The Patient
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    Quote Originally Posted by ronocko View Post
    I'm hitting a similar problem here, says my scaling factors for everything other than stam is negative (and stam is 0.04) would love to know where I'm going wrong?
    I was trying to figure out what Slootbag ( fagatha ) was doing on his warrior ( mastery>crit) and ended up tweeting Theck himself about this. I get similar negative/garbage results unless i set it to a T1610m Normal boss for testing. Theck suggested that this may be a problem with the way simc does vengeance, and the way self healing can actually mathematically make us self-sufficient. He said that paladins have similar problems with simc. Either that or I misunderstand what he was trying to say over 140characters .
    Some of the tweets:
    https://twitter.com/TheckPhD/status/429409045267509248

    I think Darkfriends guide is still good, as once simcraft can accurately do TMI then there would be only the one step to be added for Protection ( Changing to scale over TMI, and choosing a boss level ).
    Last edited by Cyclonus-WOW; 2014-02-13 at 11:59 PM. Reason: relating to original post

  15. #35
    Warchief Archimtiros's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kaerthon View Post
    I was trying to figure out what Slootbag ( fagatha ) was doing on his warrior ( mastery>crit) and ended up tweeting Theck himself about this. I get similar negative/garbage results unless i set it to a T1610m Normal boss for testing. Theck suggested that this may be a problem with the way simc does vengeance, and the way self healing can actually mathematically make us self-sufficient. He said that paladins have similar problems with simc. Either that or I misunderstand what he was trying to say over 140characters .
    Some of the tweets:
    https://twitter.com/TheckPhD/status/429409045267509248

    I think Darkfriends guide is still good, as once simcraft can accurately do TMI then there would be only the one step to be added for Protection ( Changing to scale over TMI, and choosing a boss level ).
    None of us main prot, so not the resident experts on it. But I bet Collision or Warriorsarri could figure it out. He has played Prot pretty extensively and is great at tweaking SimCraft; and Collision Math™ hasn't let us down yet. I remember him saying something about Vengeance a few weeks (months? lol) back. I'm sure one of them can figure it out.

  16. #36
    I try to avoid the protection warrior code, but I'll look into it and see if there is anything obvious. The one thing that jumps out me is that your error range is massive. Maybe TMI just requires way more iterations to get decent results?

    Also, I don't hold a candle to Theck Math, that's just a whole different level.
    Last edited by CollisionTD; 2014-02-14 at 01:50 AM.

  17. #37
    The Patient
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    Collision, don't sweat it too much. Since it sounds like it can affect Pally's too, you can rest assured Theck probably wants it fixed himself . I'm not in a big rush and Sloot is probably just trying to do epic dps, since i'm sure his healers can pull the slack.

    It would be nice to have somewhere prot wars could go to get this kind of theory stuff done, but that prob requires a few more patches where we're this good . We def don't have much to complain about this patch!

  18. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by CollisionTD View Post
    The one thing that jumps out me is that your error range is massive. Maybe TMI just requires way more iterations to get decent results?
    Well, that would kinda blow since I got those results with 50,000 iterations. :P

  19. #39


    The image above shows what the scale factors for Prot is in the BiS Sim-C profile. Unlike Fury or Arms, prot want's to minimize damage taken, so therefor instead of showing how much said stat would increase your damage, it instead says how much said stat will reduce damage taken.

    Something to keep in mind, as we are an avoidance tank now a days, our "damage range" can be quite big, which is reflected in the stat weights. For instance, in the Sim above I DTPS swing of 15.6%.
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  20. #40
    One thing I'm noticing about the stat weights for prot warrior is that in mine and apparently in your example aswell it puts dodge at a higher priority than parry, but given glyph of hold the line shouldn't parry always be more important? Obviously simcraft doesnt take glyphs into consideration (afaik) but then is there a point in prot warriors simcrafting for stat weights or am I misunderstanding something?

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