Thread: Simcraft guide

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  1. #81
    Quote Originally Posted by Eranthe View Post
    i was going to post a video but then i saw myself leaving bloodthirst off cooldown for seconds at a time and completely panicking at the end of the fight so you'll just have to take my word for it that my tanks have a habit of not worrying about melee trying to dps and just move the boss wherever it needs to go in straight lines as fast as possible.
    What I meant was; is your tank moving more often than the three-four times needed? If so, big problem. If not, even if he is moving fast, it shouldn't hurt you that much as you can (mostly) make up the distances with charge-HL and Rocket Boots.

    At any rate, go ahead and post the video, no judgement here. If you'd only seen some of the dumbass shit I've done in raids!

  2. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by Archimtiros View Post
    What I meant was; is your tank moving more often than the three-four times needed? If so, big problem. If not, even if he is moving fast, it shouldn't hurt you that much as you can (mostly) make up the distances with charge-HL and Rocket Boots.

    At any rate, go ahead and post the video, no judgement here. If you'd only seen some of the dumbass shit I've done in raids!
    it honestly wasn't bad on the kill attempt. it has been bad throughout progress. usually our tanks sprint off with the boss just after i csmash. anyway i'll post the video below in all its glory. i'm gonna go ahead and blame taking just as many attempts to get a 2nd kill than a first. make sure you don't miss those non-enraged colossus smashes during execute and completely leaving stormbolt off cooldown for a couple.

    WARNING ELITE WARRIOR GAMEPLAY BELOW

    http://www.twitch.tv/ehtnare/c/3850773

    *edit* feel free to critique anything you want. i already know most of the mistakes i made but maybe you guys can point out some more stuff.
    Last edited by Eranthe; 2014-03-09 at 04:44 AM.


    If you want to talk to me about wow theorycrafting or anything really: Eranthe#1639

  3. #83
    Quote Originally Posted by Darkfriend View Post
    We also make fun of people. You probably could never guess who they are. (Jal *cough*) NVM.
    I see what you did there LOL -Demonz-

  4. #84
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    Maybe a stupid question but how is the right way to use simc considering new items?

    My thought was:
    1. switch in the new stuff (no optimization only the gear (upgraded))
    2. simulate with simc to get the new statweights
    3. AMR-> change->unequip tailtip -> optimize -> change gems etc.-> done

    BUT after I optimized the gear and re-run simc I obviously get new statweights (which makes sense because stats changed) and often AMR would recommend to change some gems etc yet again if I use those "new" stats.
    So I don't know which statweights are the right ones to use as this could turn in an endless circle...because maybe I optimize it again, rerun it, new weights, new gems/reforge-setup etc...

  5. #85
    Quote Originally Posted by B10c0r3 View Post
    Maybe a stupid question but how is the right way to use simc considering new items?

    My thought was:
    1. switch in the new stuff (no optimization only the gear (upgraded))
    2. simulate with simc to get the new statweights
    3. AMR-> change->unequip tailtip -> optimize -> change gems etc.-> done

    BUT after I optimized the gear and re-run simc I obviously get new statweights (which makes sense because stats changed) and often AMR would recommend to change some gems etc yet again if I use those "new" stats.
    So I don't know which statweights are the right ones to use as this could turn in an endless circle...because maybe I optimize it again, rerun it, new weights, new gems/reforge-setup etc...
    Simming without optimization could potentially lead to bad stat weights. Also I'm not sure about the issue with Thoks as I have never had a problem with it.
    The best way to use SimC and AMR is as follows:

    1) Run SimCraft;
    Under the Options - Globals tab, make sure you are running 10,000-50,000 iterations. I suggest 10k or 25k. Any more is starting to become overkill.

    Under the Options - Scaling tab, make sure you analyze Str, Expertise, Hit, positive Hit, Crit, Haste and Mastery. Weapon DPS and Attack Power won't help us and will only slow you down.

    Get Stat Weights


    2) In AMR select Custom Stat Weights and select Edit Weights.


    And manually plug in the information from the SimCraft results. You can use Scale Factors but AMR does not accept anything over 9.99. As you can see my Exp and Hit scale factors are double that so I suggest you use Normalized instead. Make sure you do not check Enable "At Least" Mode.


    Now click Optimized to let AMR auto optimize your gear based on the stat weights you input.


    The green highlights will be changes that AMR recommends to optimize your gear. I like to have two windows open, one with old set of gear and one with new set of gear to swap back and forth and eyeball the changes.

    3) Make any corrections needed based on AMR optimization.

    4) Re-run SimC; this time under Options - Scaling, uncheck everything. We aren't worried about the stat weights, only finding out if the DPS number increases or not. If everything was done correctly, it should. If it goes down, you may want to double check that something wasn't input wrong, like a stat weight, or that AMR for some reason put you far below Hit/Exp caps.

    If you want to experiment, finding the DPS increase or decrease when changing gear is relatively easy.

    1) In this example I will change my boots from H Greaves, to HWF Malkorok's Stompers and re-optimize. This is where two separate windows come in handy.


    Do not worry about putting in a gem, enchant or reforge. Simply click the item you want to change, select the item to change it to, and save. Selecting Optimize will auto fill in the rest with green highlighted changes based on our custom stat weights.


    2) On the left hand side, click the Export To: SimC button. Do what it says and press ctrl+C to copy (or right click).


    Go back to SimCraft and under the Simulate tab, click the + sign to create a new tab. Paste the copied information there using ctrl+V (or right click).


    Remember to make sure you are not analyzing stat weights under the Options - Scaling tab buy unchecking those options. Right now we are only worried about looking at the effective damage changes, not how stats are effected. Changing a few pieces of gear will very rarely change your stat weights noticeably unless they are trinkets.

    Click Simulate again and get your results.


    Compare that to your earlier number and see what the changes were.
    Rarely, AMR has something incorrect. For example, Heroic Warforged Xal'atoh (upgraded 2/2) does 28,146 minimum damage. AMR thinks it does 28,147. This doesn't sound like much but can schew your results. If you are concerned, go ahead and repeat step 2 using that second AMR tab without any gear changes and compare.

    If you compare my first Sim, you will see I lost about 700dps. This is because using the HWF Malkorok boots, even though the ilvl is higher, forces me to sit at 7.45% expertise instead of 7.50 with H Greaves.

    X) Final, optional step for any Simulations. When you are all done with whatever changes you've made though not necessary, you can run a final simulation while Analyzing Stat Weights again and see if the changes had any noticeable effect on your stat weights. Then you can re-optimize inside AMR and see if there were any changes. Most likely there never will be, you would have to make a significant jump in ilvl or add a trinket such as Thok's to see major changes, but it never hurts to be sure.
    Last edited by Archimtiros; 2014-03-28 at 06:10 AM. Reason: Fixed

  6. #86
    Thoroughly explained by Archi and if i may add, using deterministic rng at options should be better.

  7. #87
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    Thx for the detailled explanation. So basically I should change new items in AMR, optimize them using the "old" statweights I got for the gear without the new item. Then check for dps increase/decrease in simc with the " ctrl +c/v" out of AMR. If dps increase get new statweights, optimize the gear using those new weights?
    So to give you an idea:
    385k before -> 390692 with the new gear (optimized with old statweights) -> rerun to get new weights, switched in AMR, optimize -> pasted into simc again -> 392526 (yipiie optimized?)

  8. #88
    Quote Originally Posted by Kostattoo View Post
    Thoroughly explained by Archi and if i may add, using deterministic rng at options should be better.
    Ya know, we were debating that back and forth last night (for about the third or fourth time) and nobody could come up with a definitive answer of whether or not it was realistically better. Very much a split issue, haha. Most people agree that if you want the "most correct" weights, all you can do is simply increase the iterations, but you start getting to a point (300k iterations!) that it simply isn't worth the slight dps difference.
    I've tried both and gotten extremely similar results, so in my experience it doesn't make enough of a difference for me to care. Experiment on your own and feel free to give feedback however if you know something I don't!

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by B10c0r3 View Post
    Thx for the detailled explanation. So basically I should change new items in AMR, optimize them using the "old" statweights I got for the gear without the new item. Then check for dps increase/decrease in simc with the " ctrl +c/v" out of AMR. If dps increase get new statweights, optimize the gear using those new weights?
    So to give you an idea:
    385k before -> 390692 with the new gear (optimized with old statweights) -> rerun to get new weights, switched in AMR, optimize -> pasted into simc again -> 392526 (yipiie optimized?)
    You really should only have to get stat weights once. Unless your changing a major piece of gear (Thok trinket), or taking a significant ilvl boost, because for example, you go from having 20% crit or mastery to 50% and those stats definitely increase exponentially.

    If you are just changing out a simple piece of gear or two, like my example, you should not have to get new stat weights in between. Stat weights will always have some slight variance every time you run a sim, even at higher iterations. But the chance of getting new optimal reforges due to Crit moving from 1.20 to 1.19 is very slim.

    That is why I recommend you get stat weights with original gear and optimize first. Make sure you have a solid "baseline". Then change your gear and re optimize, checking DPS results. When you are all done and happy with a piece of gear then you could get new stat weights if you really want to, but it is completely optional and 9/10 times you won't get any different optimization.

  9. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by Archimtiros View Post

    You really should only have to get stat weights once. Unless your changing a major piece of gear (Thok trinket), or taking a significant ilvl boost, because for example, you go from having 20% crit or mastery to 50% and those stats definitely increase exponentially.

    If you are just changing out a simple piece of gear or two, like my example, you should not have to get new stat weights in between. Stat weights will always have some slight variance every time you run a sim, even at higher iterations. But the chance of getting new optimal reforges due to Crit moving from 1.20 to 1.19 is very slim.
    That is why I recommend you get stat weights with original gear and optimize first. Make sure you have a solid "baseline". Then change your gear and re optimize, checking DPS results. When you are all done and happy with a piece of gear then you could get new stat weights if you really want to, but it is completely optional and 9/10 times you won't get any different optimization.
    I totally agree but as I mentioned I seemed to have 1/10 times...or maybe some optimization steps before went wrong I don't know but I was extremely confused although I use simc alot to keep my character optimized.Nevertheless thx a lot for your help I will keep your advices in mind.

  10. #90
    Quote Originally Posted by Archimtiros View Post
    Ya know, we were debating that back and forth last night (for about the third or fourth time) and nobody could come up with a definitive answer of whether or not it was realistically better. Very much a split issue, haha. Most people agree that if you want the "most correct" weights, all you can do is simply increase the iterations, but you start getting to a point (300k iterations!) that it simply isn't worth the slight dps difference.
    Agree, i always thought that deterministic rng was giving you a median/average value this being more accurate.

  11. #91
    For statweights and other simular things that requires the RNG to be a 100% "RNG", un-check Deterministic RNG.
    For small changes that will change your DPS by a very low amount, such as comparing 1 pair of boots to another use Deterministic RNG to make sure that the numbers you get are true, and not just "bad / good RNG" over all the iterations you simmed.
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    Quote Originally Posted by CollisionTD View Post
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  12. #92
    Quote Originally Posted by Warriorsarri View Post
    For statweights and other simular things that requires the RNG to be a 100% "RNG", un-check Deterministic RNG.
    For small changes that will change your DPS by a very low amount, such as comparing 1 pair of boots to another use Deterministic RNG to make sure that the numbers you get are true, and not just "bad / good RNG" over all the iterations you simmed.
    See what I mean by split issue? Collision suggested running 300,000 iterations and taking a nap.

  13. #93
    I know exactly what you mean, and after doing the 100k+ iteration strat for a few thousand sims, I just switched to Det-RNG, as it was just as reliable, but took a fraction of the time. :P
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  14. #94
    I asked a few of the other simc devs about deterministic, and deterministic is best used as a debugger to see if something is wrong with the model. If you're trying to compare gearsets/rotations, the only thing you can do is increase the amount of iterations. 50k is more than enough for 99.9999% of scenarios.
    Last edited by CollisionTD; 2014-03-29 at 04:11 AM.

  15. #95
    Quote Originally Posted by CollisionTD View Post
    I asked a few of the other simc devs about deterministic, and deterministic is best used as a debugger to see if something is wrong with the model. If you're trying to compare gearsets/rotations, the only thing you can do is increase the amount of iterations.
    AND TAKE A NAP!

    For three hours.

    While it iterates.


  16. #96
    How do you add Mad Hozen's Elixir and Elixir of Mirrors in Simcraft? I want to compare those two elixirs vs Flask of the Earth for my prot spec and if I change the flasks line to elixir and write the parameters as "mad_hozen_elixir,elixir_of_mirrors", it throws up an error, as does "mad_hozen,mirrors". Any ideas?

  17. #97
    Why not try it the easiest way? Disable flasks and add the stats the elixiers would have given you

  18. #98
    Yeah, I don't know if those elixirs were ever added into simcraft, just pick one of your items and add an extra gem to it with those stats.

    aka:


    trinket1=trinketofawesome,id=909999,upgrade=2,gems=500mastery_500crit

  19. #99
    Well that's pretty embarrassing that I didn't think of that myself.

  20. #100

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