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  1. #81
    Quote Originally Posted by Ronduwil View Post
    For example, it doesn't come right out and say that everyone should stack for the Sha of Pride to benefit from the Gift of the Titans buff.
    It says 8 yards for those with the buff:


    It also doesn't mention that you need to look for the add to spawn right after the prisons. It mentions the add spawning, but doesn't really explain the timing.
    Of course it doesn't. It is not meant to be a guide, but an explanation of mechanics.

    It doesn't say that everyone should stack and then spread after the reflections. It mentions the reflections giving you pride, but you kind of have to infer the rest after realizing that you would have to stack for the buff.
    It doesn't say that you need to stack - because you don't NEED to stack, it just makes it easier. You can spread around the room if you wanted to and let those with the buff run to one place and spread again after.

    For that matter, it doesn't come right out and explain how pride works and all the effects it has. Instead it gives you hints piecemeal and you're expected to put it all together.
    Pride is only relevant for one ability: Swelling Pride and so the effects of Pride are explained under Swelling Pride:


    If it's your first time in the raid without having seen a video or read a guide it's information overload and you're not going to put it all together right away.
    Yes compared to the other bosses, the Journal is quite lengthy for Sha, but it can be broken down to a few of things if your read through them more than once. However I doubt that most players have even done it once.

    Also, you still haven't explained how you're supposed to infer the Paragon kill order from the dungeon journal.
    You can't because there is no mandatory kill order. From the information in the Journal, you are able to combine which effects will make it harder for your raid and therefore focus on killing a certain Klaxxi first, but it doesn't say that you are not allowed to leave Skeer and Rik'kal up if you wanted to or leave Korven and the Amber mechanic as the last Paragon.

    Quote Originally Posted by Classiccs View Post
    Can't tell if troll orrrrr...
    Did no one else bring this up?
    No, you just haven't checked the EU: http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...ughja/advanced

  2. #82
    Quote Originally Posted by banur View Post
    It says 8 yards for those with the buff:
    And how many abilities did you have to expand to get at that?

    Quote Originally Posted by banur View Post
    Of course it doesn't. It is not meant to be a guide, but an explanation of mechanics.
    Which is exactly what I was getting at. My post was a response to people who insisted that players new to LFR could easily learn each fight by spending a minute glancing through the dungeon journal.

    Quote Originally Posted by banur View Post
    It doesn't say that you need to stack - because you don't NEED to stack, it just makes it easier. You can spread around the room if you wanted to and let those with the buff run to one place and spread again after.
    If by "easier" you mean "possible to beat the enrage timer because average LFR DPS is about 75K" then I agree. You can't even get a couple of healers to dispell debuffs with "Gift of the Titans." How are you going to get 23 players to run to stack in a different place, and why would you want to force unnecessary movement on them. This argument amounts to, "doing it the easy way isn't mandatory because you could meet the requirements with an even harder approach." If you can't get everyone to stack then you're not going to get a handful of players to stack somewhere else either.

    Quote Originally Posted by banur View Post
    Pride is only relevant for one ability: Swelling Pride and so the effects of Pride are explained under Swelling Pride:
    And I speak from experience when I say it is the leading cause of wipes in SOO LFR Wing 1. Saying that it's only relevant for one ability is kind of understating it, not to mention inaccurate. Tanks can also gain it by failing to properly swap, and healers can gain it by dispelling debuffs without having the Gift of the Titans on them. Neither of those means of getting pride have anything to do with swelling pride. Also, once players have aura of pride and/or are overcome they are a hindrance until they die regardless of how often swelling pride is being cast.

    Quote Originally Posted by banur View Post
    Yes compared to the other bosses, the Journal is quite lengthy for Sha, but it can be broken down to a few of things if your read through them more than once. However I doubt that most players have even done it once.
    I bet Paragons is longer, and I agree that most players have probably not even read it once because it's too much information to digest in the couple of minutes before the fight. It's much faster to make three concise statements explaining what everyone should do than it is to ask everyone to read the journal.

    Quote Originally Posted by banur View Post
    You can't because there is no mandatory kill order. From the information in the Journal, you are able to combine which effects will make it harder for your raid and therefore focus on killing a certain Klaxxi first, but it doesn't say that you are not allowed to leave Skeer and Rik'kal up if you wanted to or leave Korven and the Amber mechanic as the last Paragon.
    Again, that was the point I was making in response to:
    Quote Originally Posted by Giscoicus View Post
    Not researching the fights and just expecting somebody else to know them is disgusting behavior. How would LFR function if nobody knew the kill order for Paragons?
    The point I was trying to make was two-fold:
    1. LFR functions perfectly fine without a kill order
    2. LFR was designed for players without the time to study up on fights through third party sites so this is as intended

    My pet peeve in LFR is players who respond to requests for information with "Read your journal" and then complain that everyone is "bad" because they fail on mechanics. The helpful thing to do is just rattle off the Cliffs Notes version for them.
    Last edited by Ronduwil; 2014-02-11 at 05:14 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by CandyCotton Marshmallows View Post
    People need to get over the gear color (and themselves). It doesn't matter, and it shouldn't matter what other players have either. Worry about your damn self. Live your life by that. If you want to concern yourself with someone else, then worry about HELPING them, not putting them down or making sure you stand out as better than them.
    Maybe the game would be better with more low DPS nice guys and fewer high DPS jerks? -- Ghostcrawler, Twitter, 6/29/13

  3. #83
    Quote Originally Posted by Ronduwil View Post
    And I speak from experience when I say it is the leading cause of wipes in SOO LFR Wing 1. Saying that it's only relevant for one ability is kind of understating it, not to mention inaccurate. Tanks can also gain it by failing to properly swap, and healers can gain it by dispelling debuffs without having the Gift of the Titans on them. Neither of those means of getting pride have anything to do with swelling pride. Also, once players have aura of pride and/or are overcome they are a hindrance until they die regardless of how often swelling pride is being cast.
    But you do realize that they do not get aura or overcome untill a swelling pride hits right? Swelling pride is the mechanic that makes pride matter. If it didn't happen, it wouldn't matter one bit if you got pride because there would be no effect.

  4. #84
    Quote Originally Posted by cabyio View Post
    But you do realize that they do not get aura or overcome untill a swelling pride hits right? Swelling pride is the mechanic that makes pride matter. If it didn't happen, it wouldn't matter one bit if you got pride because there would be no effect.
    So what? Swelling Pride is going to hit periodically like clockwork and there's no way to stop it. Yes, it triggers the ill effects, but players cannot control that. What they can do is to avoid getting pride by not dispelling debuffs without the gift, by not standing in the reflections, by not standing in bursting pride, and by killing the add in the back and interrupting his mocking blast. However, the dungeon journal buries all that under a bunch of levels. This information should all be front and center, but instead it's buried under all this garbage that players have no control over, Swelling Pride being a prime example of that. That's why the dungeon journal sucks as a guide. It's a good reference manual for experienced players, but it's virtually worthless for someone new to the fight.
    Quote Originally Posted by CandyCotton Marshmallows View Post
    People need to get over the gear color (and themselves). It doesn't matter, and it shouldn't matter what other players have either. Worry about your damn self. Live your life by that. If you want to concern yourself with someone else, then worry about HELPING them, not putting them down or making sure you stand out as better than them.
    Maybe the game would be better with more low DPS nice guys and fewer high DPS jerks? -- Ghostcrawler, Twitter, 6/29/13

  5. #85
    Quote Originally Posted by Ronduwil View Post
    So what? Swelling Pride is going to hit periodically like clockwork and there's no way to stop it. Yes, it triggers the ill effects, but players cannot control that. What they can do is to avoid getting pride by not dispelling debuffs without the gift, by not standing in the reflections, by not standing in bursting pride, and by killing the add in the back and interrupting his mocking blast. However, the dungeon journal buries all that under a bunch of levels. This information should all be front and center, but instead it's buried under all this garbage that players have no control over, Swelling Pride being a prime example of that. That's why the dungeon journal sucks as a guide. It's a good reference manual for experienced players, but it's virtually worthless for someone new to the fight.
    God forbid someone would have to actually absorb information and fully understand it, instead you want it to bash you upside the head and say "FIRE BAD".

  6. #86
    Quote Originally Posted by Ronduwil View Post
    So what? Swelling Pride is going to hit periodically like clockwork and there's no way to stop it. Yes, it triggers the ill effects, but players cannot control that. What they can do is to avoid getting pride by not dispelling debuffs without the gift, by not standing in the reflections, by not standing in bursting pride, and by killing the add in the back and interrupting his mocking blast. However, the dungeon journal buries all that under a bunch of levels. This information should all be front and center, but instead it's buried under all this garbage that players have no control over, Swelling Pride being a prime example of that. That's why the dungeon journal sucks as a guide. It's a good reference manual for experienced players, but it's virtually worthless for someone new to the fight.
    3 short sentences is burying it right?

    Reading and being able to make connections between a couple things isn't some sort of challenge and not a flaw. X gives pride. Pride does Y, therefore doing X leads to Y. I know the LFR player base is dumb but come on, this is pretty basic.

  7. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by banur View Post
    No, you just haven't checked the EU: http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...ughja/advanced
    Ah there we go. He said "Chamber of Secrets" rather than "Aspects" which led me to believe it was potential troll.

  8. #88
    Quote Originally Posted by Giscoicus View Post
    3 short sentences is burying it right?
    No, but having to click through three abilities over which you have no control, each with its own detailed explanation before finally getting to the relevant ability is burying it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Giscoicus View Post
    Reading and being able to make connections between a couple things isn't some sort of challenge and not a flaw.
    And you clearly failed to do that when you misconstrued my sentence about burying explanations, so you've made my point for me.

    Quote Originally Posted by Giscoicus View Post
    X gives pride. Pride does Y, therefore doing X leads to Y. I know the LFR player base is dumb but come on, this is pretty basic.
    Except that's not how it's presented. It's more like:
    A does B, C, D, and E.
    F does G, H, I, and J.
    C does M.
    D does X.
    K gets rid of J.
    N will kill everyone.
    Y does A when G, H, and I are in play.
    When E and J are up N will happen.

    Yes, after the logic puzzle is complete and you've studied the chart backwards and forwards you can come back and say all this stuff obviously tells you what to do. When you're first looking at it, however, it takes some time to digest, often longer than the minute or so that people are willing to tolerate in LFR.
    Quote Originally Posted by CandyCotton Marshmallows View Post
    People need to get over the gear color (and themselves). It doesn't matter, and it shouldn't matter what other players have either. Worry about your damn self. Live your life by that. If you want to concern yourself with someone else, then worry about HELPING them, not putting them down or making sure you stand out as better than them.
    Maybe the game would be better with more low DPS nice guys and fewer high DPS jerks? -- Ghostcrawler, Twitter, 6/29/13

  9. #89
    Select the combat log tab instead of chat. That's what I do if I encounter an avalanche of stupid. Combat log only nags you if you die.
    Forget junk, my panda's got FUNK!
    Quote Originally Posted by anaxie View Post
    You know what happened when i started playing in TBC in 2.1 and rolled ret as my first char? Lol ret , Lol ret , Lol ret , Lol ret You know what i was saying in a few months? Lol hows kara? Then I cleared BT/SW while they followed behind me sniffing my gloriously rosey turds.

  10. #90
    Spend a few minutes learning the fights online, if a tank fucks up the entire raid will suffer in LFR, doesn't apply to healers or dps in any way near the same level. Get DBM, dear god please get DBM.

  11. #91
    Leading LFR groups to wipeless runs is piss easy for anyone who runs normal+

    If your LFR fails and you raid normal+ you either suck or didn't bother to help your group Never has the question "Anyone wnt a bit of advice or tactics for next fight feel free to whisper me " gone unanswered.

    As people are keen to point out, you only need about 8-9 people executing the fight correctly to win.

    EDIT: In EU.
    >SIX A-BONG SIX A-BONG OLLY JOLLY IT'S SIX-A-BONG

  12. #92
    Quote Originally Posted by Ronduwil View Post
    players new to LFR could easily learn each fight by spending a minute glancing through the dungeon journal.
    You seem to lump two things together that will never fit together: one is the Journal, which is NOT a guide, but a way to read up on mechanics ingame rather than a third party site; the other is the LFR playerbase.
    Understanding fights through the Journal is possible, but that doesn't mean you get a strategy on how to beat the boss. The intention is not to spell out when you need to stack and when to spread, but to explain how an ability works. The connection between players exploding and spreading, is left for you to figure out.

    If by "easier" you mean "possible to beat the enrage timer because average LFR DPS is about 75K" then I agree. You can't even get a couple of healers to dispell debuffs with "Gift of the Titans." How are you going to get 23 players to run to stack in a different place, and why would you want to force unnecessary movement on them. This argument amounts to, "doing it the easy way isn't mandatory because you could meet the requirements with an even harder approach." If you can't get everyone to stack then you're not going to get a handful of players to stack somewhere else either.
    The lack of DPS, dispels and movement is prevalent in LFR and the nature of the Journal has no impact on that.

    And I speak from experience when I say it is the leading cause of wipes in SOO LFR Wing 1. Saying that it's only relevant for one ability is kind of understating it, not to mention inaccurate. Tanks can also gain it by failing to properly swap, and healers can gain it by dispelling debuffs without having the Gift of the Titans on them. Neither of those means of getting pride have anything to do with swelling pride. Also, once players have aura of pride and/or are overcome they are a hindrance until they die regardless of how often swelling pride is being cast.
    The first tab is dedicated to Pride and marked as important, with two lines that say all you need for basic understanding of pride:
    "Whenever hit by an ability from the Sha of Pride or one of its minions, players gain 5 Pride. As a player's Pride increases to 25, 50, 75 and 100, Swelling Pride will inflict additional effects on that player."
    If players took the minute to think about those two lines, they could forgo the other tabs: getting hit by ANYTHING is likely to give you Pride and Swelling Pride will cause different effects at certain levels.

    I bet Paragons is longer, and I agree that most players have probably not even read it once because it's too much information to digest in the couple of minutes before the fight. It's much faster to make three concise statements explaining what everyone should do than it is to ask everyone to read the journal.
    It is certainly faster, but that is not the scope of the Journal. The Journal is meant to explain mechanics across all difficult levels and not a hand-holding guide for LFR.

    1. LFR functions perfectly fine without a kill order
    It functions as perfectly as not stacking on Sha functions. I have seen groups fail because Skeer and Korven were up, bloods would heal Korven and Amber wasn't popped.

    2. LFR was designed for players without the time to study up on fights through third party sites so this is as intended
    The problem is that "without time" comes "cba to put in time".

    My pet peeve in LFR is players who respond to requests for information with "Read your journal" and then complain that everyone is "bad" because they fail on mechanics. The helpful thing to do is just rattle off the Cliffs Notes version for them.
    Funny, mine is players who sit in 30 minute queues, just to join and ask what they need to do. They are not bad because the fail on mechanics and "no body told them", they are bad because they wouldn't put in the time to get familiar with the boss. I always find it amusing when players backpedal out of the group with Inferno Strike. I like to watch the timer run out and them dropping dead.

    Quote Originally Posted by Classiccs View Post
    Ah there we go. He said "Chamber of Secrets" rather than "Aspects" which led me to believe it was potential troll.
    Ah true, I just pasted the name into the search and when the US one came up with low levels, I tried the EU one.

  13. #93
    Quote Originally Posted by AeneasBK View Post
    Leading LFR groups to wipeless runs is piss easy for anyone who runs normal+

    If your LFR fails and you raid normal+ you either suck or didn't bother to help your group Never has the question "Anyone wnt a bit of advice or tactics for next fight feel free to whisper me " gone unanswered.

    As people are keen to point out, you only need about 8-9 people executing the fight correctly to win.

    EDIT: In EU.
    You can try to help all you want, but if people are ignoring you, which happens alot, then your advice will do fuckall. No point in trying to help people that will ignore you.

  14. #94
    Quote Originally Posted by banur View Post
    You seem to lump two things together that will never fit together: one is the Journal, which is NOT a guide, but a way to read up on mechanics ingame rather than a third party site; the other is the LFR playerbase.
    I didn't lump them together. Let me remind you how this started:
    Quote Originally Posted by Ronduwil View Post
    The whole purpose of LFR was for players to be able to show up without having done any research or homework.
    and the response was:
    Quote Originally Posted by Giscoicus View Post
    This simply isnt true, because the dungeon journal has mechanic notes for LFR.
    But as you point out:
    Quote Originally Posted by banur View Post
    Understanding fights through the Journal is possible, but that doesn't mean you get a strategy on how to beat the boss. The intention is not to spell out when you need to stack and when to spread, but to explain how an ability works. The connection between players exploding and spreading, is left for you to figure out.
    And that's exactly what I've been saying all along.
    Quote Originally Posted by banur View Post
    Funny, mine is players who sit in 30 minute queues, just to join and ask what they need to do.
    How do you know they've been sitting in 30 minute queues? Tanks and healers often get insta-queues so that statement doesn't even apply to the people who matter most. Even if they had to wait 30 minutes how do you know they spent all that time just sitting in a city in the queue. As a player with limited time much of my LFR queue time is spent in dungeons, in scenarios, and/or running dailies for supplemental valor. Just because you choose to park your character in a city and troll trade chat or check auctions does not mean everyone else just "sits" in queue.

    Quote Originally Posted by banur View Post
    They are not bad because the fail on mechanics and "no body told them", they are bad because they wouldn't put in the time to get familiar with the boss.
    And that's why you will never bring them into raids. Since Blizzard chose to exclusively focus on raids for MoP they had to give these people something to do, and that's where LFR comes in. The whole point is that in LFR they don't have to put in the time to get familiar with the boss. Blizzard stated as much in their Raid Finder Q&A:
    Q.Who is Raid Finder for?
    A. Raid Finder is primarily intended for players who don’t already raid consistently. These are players who may not have had the opportunity to take part in raid content due to scheduling conflicts, playtime constraints, limited access to other raid-capable players, or a lack of experience with higher-end content. These players may want to experience World of Warcraft’s raid content and storyline without being able to commit to the additional time investment of a raiding guild. The Raid Finder is also a great way to quickly and easily gear up alternate characters without having to worry about raid lockouts.
    Those who persist in believing that LFR was supposed to be starter content for raiders will continue to be disappointed.

    Quote Originally Posted by banur View Post
    I always find it amusing when players backpedal out of the group with Inferno Strike. I like to watch the timer run out and them dropping dead.
    This happens with Static Shock in the Lei Shen fight too. I find it frustrating and will always whisper, "and that's why you stack for Static Shock/Inferno Strike."
    Quote Originally Posted by CandyCotton Marshmallows View Post
    People need to get over the gear color (and themselves). It doesn't matter, and it shouldn't matter what other players have either. Worry about your damn self. Live your life by that. If you want to concern yourself with someone else, then worry about HELPING them, not putting them down or making sure you stand out as better than them.
    Maybe the game would be better with more low DPS nice guys and fewer high DPS jerks? -- Ghostcrawler, Twitter, 6/29/13

  15. #95
    Quote Originally Posted by Ronduwil View Post
    I didn't lump them together. Let me remind you how this started:

    and the response was:

    But as you point out:

    And that's exactly what I've been saying all along.

    How do you know they've been sitting in 30 minute queues? Tanks and healers often get insta-queues so that statement doesn't even apply to the people who matter most. Even if they had to wait 30 minutes how do you know they spent all that time just sitting in a city in the queue. As a player with limited time much of my LFR queue time is spent in dungeons, in scenarios, and/or running dailies for supplemental valor. Just because you choose to park your character in a city and troll trade chat or check auctions does not mean everyone else just "sits" in queue.


    And that's why you will never bring them into raids. Since Blizzard chose to exclusively focus on raids for MoP they had to give these people something to do, and that's where LFR comes in. The whole point is that in LFR they don't have to put in the time to get familiar with the boss. Blizzard stated as much in their Raid Finder Q&A:

    Those who persist in believing that LFR was supposed to be starter content for raiders will continue to be disappointed.


    This happens with Static Shock in the Lei Shen fight too. I find it frustrating and will always whisper, "and that's why you stack for Static Shock/Inferno Strike."
    As mentioned, the crux is between what Blizzard considers LFR to be and what the vast majority of players consider LFR to be. Blizzard acknowledges that LFR requires some form of preparation and effort given that it's possible to wipe and tanks need to research fights to pull their raid group through.

    On the other hand, it's reiterated constantly that LFR isn't real raiding, which in turn creates players who don't think they don't need to do any of the above. I've been in flex runs with players in ungemmed and unenchanted gear thinking it would be just fine. It's a problem created by the playerbase as a whole.

  16. #96
    Quote Originally Posted by Hughja View Post
    Hello all,

    Am looking at Tanking in LFR Throne of Thunder and Siege of Orgrimmar but am a bit dubious of it as I have seen the potential abuse that Tanks get and/or the just plain lack of Knowledge of fights and mechanics.

    I have been doing runs in LFR (as DPS) while specced for Prot loot, also been doing runs with my guild in normal MSV (just to get my confidence up)

    Would anyone have any suggestions and or what addons I would need to do the following

    1. Be able to tank effectively
    2. Help the other members of the raid
    3. Not screw up fights

    Unfortunately I am unable to post a link to my character - Hughja on Chamber of Secrets as I have not posted enough yet

    The best advice I can give you is to jump straight in and do your best.

    You can simply turn off raid chat if the plebs start running their mouth.


    Quote Originally Posted by Templis View Post
    As mentioned, the crux is between what Blizzard considers LFR to be and what the vast majority of players consider LFR to be. Blizzard acknowledges that LFR requires some form of preparation and effort given that it's possible to wipe and tanks need to research fights to pull their raid group through.

    On the other hand, it's reiterated constantly that LFR isn't real raiding, which in turn creates players who don't think they don't need to do any of the above. I've been in flex runs with players in ungemmed and unenchanted gear thinking it would be just fine. It's a problem created by the playerbase as a whole.
    LFR isn't real raiding, Every raider who's doing normals or heroics knows this.

    I do agree that LFR does require some sort of knowledge especially from tanks but DPS can still wipe you on some fights if they dont handle things correctly.

    Iron Star on Garrosh or Imploding Energy on Malkorok are 2 good examples of where a DPS can cause a wipe.
    Last edited by Antenora; 2014-02-12 at 02:53 PM.

  17. #97
    Quote Originally Posted by Antenora View Post
    LFR isn't real raiding, Every raider who's doing normals or heroics knows this.

    I do agree that LFR does require some sort of knowledge especially from tanks but DPS can still wipe you on some fights if they dont handle things correctly.

    Iron Star on Garrosh or Imploding Energy on Malkorok are 2 good examples of where a DPS can cause a wipe.
    What would you consider 'real raiding'? I mean, what elements make up a real raid? LFR raiding seems awfully similar to normal or heroic mode raiding save for the difficulty of the encounters and the convenience of assembling the raid group. Raiding really just implies that you have a large number of players banding together to complete a PVE objective. By using the argument that difference in difficulty removes it from the category altogether you could easily argue that MoP 5-mans aren't real dungeons, or that simple algebra isn't real math.

  18. #98
    1. have the other tank in focustarget, always usefull to see when he gets debuffs nd stuffs.
    2. if you dont know what to do, ask the other tank. wisper him! dont EVER EVER EVER speak a single word in raidchat.
    3. you dont rly need any addons but if you want timers for stuff get dbm.
    4. who the fuck cares what the other randoms in lfr says?
    5. If youve done the fights as dps then you know the fight. tanking isnt rocketscience, its imo the eaiest role to play in raids, so just go for it.

  19. #99
    Quote Originally Posted by Templis View Post
    As mentioned, the crux is between what Blizzard considers LFR to be and what the vast majority of players consider LFR to be. Blizzard acknowledges that LFR requires some form of preparation and effort given that it's possible to wipe and tanks need to research fights to pull their raid group through.
    Except (and I'm sounding like a broken record here) that Blizzard explicitly stated that LFR doesn't require preparation or effort in their Raid Finder Q&A:
    Q.Who is Raid Finder for?
    A. Raid Finder is primarily intended for players who don’t already raid consistently. These are players who may not have had the opportunity to take part in raid content due to scheduling conflicts, playtime constraints, limited access to other raid-capable players, or a lack of experience with higher-end content. These players may want to experience World of Warcraft’s raid content and storyline without being able to commit to the additional time investment of a raiding guild. The Raid Finder is also a great way to quickly and easily gear up alternate characters without having to worry about raid lockouts.
    That's why when players fail on the same mechanics over and over again in LFR they either get nerfed into irrelevance or go away entirely. That's why you can lose 20 people to the Durumu maze and still finish him off with two tanks, two DPS, and a healer. That's why Nazgrim's Ravagers hardly do damage any more and go away after a minute instead of remaining through the whole fight. That's why Warshamans now heal 1% per tick instead of 2%. That's why the group gets a 5% buff after every wipe. Every time Blizzard hotfixes this stuff there's outrage, but it makes no sense because Blizzard was up front in stating that their intention was for players to be able to queue and complete each wing in a timely manner.

    Quote Originally Posted by Templis View Post
    On the other hand, it's reiterated constantly that LFR isn't real raiding, which in turn creates players who don't think they don't need to do any of the above.
    First of all, players reiterate that LFR isn't real raiding. Blizzard put the word "raid" in the official name of the system: Raid Finder. Some developers have personally stated that LFR doesn't "feel" like raiding, but that wasn't ever made into Blizzard's official stance. Raiding in WoW is whatever Blizzard says it is. It's their game, after all. The fact that you're fighting 25-man bosses and collecting loot at the end of the fights pretty much classifies it as raiding.

    Quote Originally Posted by Templis View Post
    I've been in flex runs with players in ungemmed and unenchanted gear thinking it would be just fine. It's a problem created by the playerbase as a whole.
    Because it is just fine. LFR was never designed to require that. It's your attitude that needs adjusting. Blizzard has acknowledged that the benefits of gems and enchants have gotten out of control and that's why they're drastically reducing their impact and even removing them entirely in some cases in WoD.
    Last edited by Ronduwil; 2014-02-12 at 06:02 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by CandyCotton Marshmallows View Post
    People need to get over the gear color (and themselves). It doesn't matter, and it shouldn't matter what other players have either. Worry about your damn self. Live your life by that. If you want to concern yourself with someone else, then worry about HELPING them, not putting them down or making sure you stand out as better than them.
    Maybe the game would be better with more low DPS nice guys and fewer high DPS jerks? -- Ghostcrawler, Twitter, 6/29/13

  20. #100
    Quote Originally Posted by Drekmar View Post
    Don't do LFR. Train in Dungeons and then go flexes. Avoid LFR at all cost.
    Doubly this because PVP gear will be available for honor (at a 520ilvl)

    If you're a non-avoidance-statted tank like monk or paladin, you can get a set of the tanking VP gear (522) ilvl with PVP arms and armor to fill in the blanks.

    520 should be sufficient to start farming flex 1&2.

    get a 535 timeless trinket, and the crafting and the 552 pants/belt and you're golden.
    Last edited by blackblade; 2014-02-12 at 06:12 PM.

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