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  1. #1
    Pandaren Monk Iamanerd's Avatar
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    Possible changes to Ele's Lightning Bolt while moving?

    So on the front page they mentioned casting while moving. Apparently Elemental's ability to cast Lightning Bolt while moving is to strong? Am I missing something here or do they plan on ruining Elemental in PVP and even hurting them PVE wise?

    What is everyone else's opinion on the matter?
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  2. #2
    From a PvE point of view, I say good riddance. I never liked the ability to cast on the move as it kind of made me feel like I wasn't having to really think out my movement too much on fights any more to min/max dps. Now it's just move whenever I want and make sure I can stop for LvB. The glyph was okay, I guess, but I wasn't much of a fan of it, either. As for PvP, I can definitely see it hurting Ele, but I don't do enough of it to know just how much it will impact it. As always, though, I'll wait it out until the xpac changes are finalized and hope for the best.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Iamanerd View Post
    So on the front page they mentioned casting while moving. Apparently Elemental's ability to cast Lightning Bolt while moving is to strong? Am I missing something here or do they plan on ruining Elemental in PVP and even hurting them PVE wise?

    What is everyone else's opinion on the matter?
    I'm fine with it. The casting on the move thing got so far out of hand in MoP. Especially with pre 5.4 warlocks. Being able to move while casting your entire rotation was just dumb. It isn't ruining Ele pvp. It'll be a playstyle difference. And ele has alot of burst and really streamlined abilities. And they still have SWG.
    Perfect example of why "community" forums are poisonous to the health of a development team. These developers are wasting hundreds of hours trying to stem the tide of incessant bitchery that would never, ever abate so long as these entitled, unfortunate human beings don't get their way.

  4. #4
    So glad they used Elemental as the example, because that's clearly the over-powered cast-while-moving spec. They don't think it's "needed" because of all of the Elemantal Shamans out-DPSing warlocks, right? Take away free cast-while-moving from Elemental and its already-mediocre DPS will tank (it's bad enough that Lightning Bolt is an over-cooked wet noodle). SWG wasn't enough to make movement-locked Elemental viable in T11 or T14 and it won't go over any better in T17.

  5. #5
    Not being able to cast Lightning Bolt while moving would stink for Enhancement as well. It's a lot harder to weave in Lightning Bolt when it's not instant cast and you have to stop moving.

    In any case, not being able to cast while moving is a boring mechanic anyway. I'd rather see some kind of penalty for moving while casting (i.e., reduced concentration, reduces damage and/or lengthens cast times) than go back to everyone standing in place while DPSing. On the PvP front, everybody has interrupts now, so cast time spells already have enough risk baked in.

  6. #6
    High Overlord fearchanges's Avatar
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    If they're going to remove the cast-while-moving ability from LB, i'm going to be sad about it. I just like to run around and cast my LB.
    Ele Pvp is going to get kicked in the nuts with this change and in some degree resto shaman also.

    If they make it a talent like Warlocks KJC, then i really hope it's going to be on par with other talents. Replace it with EB and make EB baseline (maybe without the rnd stats buff). Though i'm not certain if it could compete with UF and PE.

    We'll have to wait and see with WoD

  7. #7
    At least for other caster classes, thanks to having multiple strong dots, their damage continue while they are moving even if they can't cast. If we lost the ability to cast Lightning Bolt while moving, our damage would fall to almost nothing. Lightning Bolt isn't even a strong spell, wouldn't surprise me if warlock dots deal more damage combined than our Lightning Bolt spam does.

    We can cast while moving because we need it.

  8. #8
    Removing/Reducing the abilities to cast while moving and making Pandemic baseline for all caster specs sounds like the final blow to elemental in progression raids.
    Back when the LB was implemented it made us competitive, with it being gone...
    To players who still haven't killed Garrosh hc that might not matter, but I quit WoW because I felt useless during progression tier after tier. I was thinking about starting again with WoD, but I don't think so after reading that post.

  9. #9
    I'm viewing this comment as more of a dumb off-the-cuff example than a promise to nerf Elemental right now. I think he picked a bad example to illustrate what has become a wider problem with the game. It was much more game-breaking to give it to warlocks and mages than it was to give it to Elemental and that made it nothing less than a requirement for us. If they back away from easy movement for ranged specs, it makes melee more viable and that's something they need to do. But if they do take it from Elemental, they would have to compensate with increased damage somewhere to keep Elemental even mid-pack, and their history on that subject is not a good one.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Iamanerd View Post
    So on the front page they mentioned casting while moving. Apparently Elemental's ability to cast Lightning Bolt while moving is to strong? Am I missing something here or do they plan on ruining Elemental in PVP and even hurting them PVE wise?

    What is everyone else's opinion on the matter?
    Casters are supposed to stand still and cast.

    Instant casts were ok when they were few and far between, but it has turned into a shitty, out of control arm's race where they keep having to give more and move move-while-casting shit to everyone and now everyone is at the point where movement matters very little to them, which shouldn't be the case.

    In typical blizzard fashion, they wait until an issue spirals out of control before they actually make an attempt to do something about it. See stats on items and the item squish.

    I'd be happy if none of the dps could cast while moving, at least then you'd have fights where melee were really strong on and ranged sucked occasionally instead of ranged always being good and it being a question of how MUCH having melee will suck for your raid for that particular encounter. I know it's as trange and foreign concept, but it is what balance is all about, and it doesn't exist presently.
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  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Dasani View Post
    Casters are supposed to stand still and cast.
    Casters were supposed to stand still and cast when it was possible to do so. You're right about it being an arms race, but I think the actual culprit is increased movement mechanics. If casters can't DPS on the move, then fights have to stop making them move all the time, and since that would be viewed as "dumbing down" the mechanics, I don't see them going there.

  12. #12
    It used to be a measurement of skill to be able to time your casts in between movement phases. I played a mage in t4-t5 and it was a big difference in dps between those that was good at it and those that weren't. I'd love to see that come back!

    I do agree with the previous poster though, that movement mechanics need to be toned down a bit in that case.

  13. #13
    Movement is about the only way to challenge people during boss fights. Not standing in shit and being where you need to be are critical in every single encounter, but there is still plenty of time to just stand still and nuke.

    It's much worse and a lot more movement on heroic mode encounters than normal ones, but theres still not a whole lot of movement you have to do. I think the problem is ANY MOVEMENT AT ALL pisses casters off if it disrupts their ability to cast. It is that mentality that "i need to be able to dps all the time with no loss" that is the main problem. Melee have to deal with that crap all the time, anytime they have to target switch and run over to a new target, or run away from the boss due to a mechanic, or whatever, it is all lost DPS because they cannot hit things from a distance. Ranged don't have that crippling disadvantage, the only way they can ever get hurt is by just moving too much, but because it doesn't even matter that much anymore, it's crazy.

    I mean hell, a good example is thok. In every heroic thok kill i've ever done, ranged DPS came out on top. And that is with him casting a god damn aoe silence like every 2 seconds for half the fight, they STILL do more damage than melee because the melee just can't keep up with him to attack him during the kite phase. It's like they tried to put that shit in there to inconvenience casters (mainly healers but still) and it still wasn't enough to offset their tremendous advantage just from being ranged.

    There has to be some kind of downside to doing ranged DPS to offset the advantages, movement was always that downside, but it doesn't exist anymore. Meanwhile melee still have all the disadvantages associated with being melee. Letting all casters continue to cast while moving would be as ludicrous as giving all melee ranged attack options akin to rogues' shuriken toss and deadly throw (which by the way, also need to be scrapped imo). It's just kinda disgusting for ranged to have all the benefits and advantages that they do now.

    I mean shit, even if you don't raid, just do some brawler's guild as a ranged and as a melee and look at the difference there as well. No contest.
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  14. #14
    Warchief Anzen's Avatar
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    Can't see this effecting Elemental, would be too great a change, especially since we can only cast one spell on the move anyway, are far from the highest single target DPS (our AoE requires we stand still) and have no real instants we can just "use" on the move (besides Earth Shocking at random times and Unleash Elements?)

    & to people saying this won't hurt Elemental in PvE or PvP? I seriously wonder if half the people on the shaman forums even play shaman.
    Last edited by Anzen; 2014-02-11 at 11:44 AM.

  15. #15
    I'm pretty sure not one single elemental player posted in this thread. I can imagine enhancement enjoying this news...

    Taking away our lightning-bold-on-the-move is probably a death sentencs for this spec. I will reduce us to a boring static single target caster. You do realize each of our spellcasts takes like 2 seconds? Good luck with that if you have to move the whole time during fights.

    Basically we go back to pvp without elemental shamans...

  16. #16
    Warchief Anzen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rogas View Post
    I'm pretty sure not one single elemental player posted in this thread. I can imagine enhancement enjoying this news...

    Taking away our lightning-bold-on-the-move is probably a death sentencs for this spec. I will reduce us to a boring static single target caster. You do realize each of our spellcasts takes like 2 seconds? Good luck with that if you have to move the whole time during fights.

    Basically we go back to pvp without elemental shamans...
    Can't wait to chase people round pillars on 1% hp!

    Quote Originally Posted by Dasani View Post
    It's just kinda disgusting for ranged to have all the benefits and advantages that they do now.
    Luckily as a melee nearly all the mechanics just don't effect you. *TRUE STORY* I have a friend who is melee, he played his range alt in siege one week, I couldn't believe the things he didn't know. He didn't know what Set To Blow was on Spoils, wanna know why? Because it doesn't ever go on melee. He didn't know what to do with Sawblades or Locked On during Siegecrafter. He didn't know what the Amber looked like on Paragons nor the Kuchongs (or how to handle memorize), he didn't know how to spawn Desecrate Weapons on Garrosh, hell he didn't even know of the existence of the engineers till we told him. When we asked him to kill adds on Norushen & Nazgrim he said as a melee he usually doesn't bother.

    Just would rather put both sides across that slating one type of DPS.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dasani View Post
    There has to be some kind of downside to doing ranged DPS to offset the advantages, movement was always that downside, but it doesn't exist anymore. Meanwhile melee still have all the disadvantages associated with being melee.
    Ranged have to actually deal with the bosses mechanics; melee seem to have got the good end of the bargain and get to tunnel every single boss this tier.
    Last edited by Anzen; 2014-02-11 at 12:19 PM.

  17. #17
    The only thing that makes elemental single target bearable during heroic progression is the fact that we can do most of our rotation on the move.

  18. #18
    Warchief Anzen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iamanerd View Post
    Apparently Elemental's ability to cast Lightning Bolt while moving is too strong? Am I missing something here
    To be honest the OP sums up my opinion on the matter perfectly, I would be literally amazed if they actually removed the ability to cast Lightning Bolt whilst moving.

  19. #19
    I think casting on the move should be the same for everyone. Either every caster can do it, or nobody can do it.

    But, we all know how Blizzard fixes balance issues. If ele, lock, etc etc are imbalanced and require strong balancing, they do nothing to balance them and instead they nerf shadow word: pain for 15%. As they always do as a strong and professional Blizzard team.

  20. #20
    Warchief Anzen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by l33t View Post
    I think casting on the move should be the same for everyone. Either every caster can do it, or nobody can do it.

    But, we all know how Blizzard fixes balance issues. If ele, lock, etc etc are imbalanced and require strong balancing, they do nothing to balance them and instead they nerf shadow word: pain for 15%. As they always do as a strong and professional Blizzard team.
    I think you're missing what the game is about, all classes shouldn't be able to do exactly the same; Homogenization is bad game design in my opinion.

    I can understand you are upset because SPriests got the short end of the stick this tier, Elemental hasn't been much better, but across the board nerfs like you suggested would only increase imbalance issues.

    Moving whilst casting Lightning Bolt has almost become iconic about the class and I think it would be almost outrageous, considering Elemental's current state, to nerf it whilst maintaining that it's fine for warlocks because theirs is a talent (despite ours being a glyph that got removed literally last patch).

    I will be extremely surprised if this goes live without major balancing overhaul on several classes.

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