Page 1 of 2
1
2
LastLast
  1. #1

    New to Disc, any tips?

    I just started playing priest again and did my first normal raid with a pug. So here are a couple sample fights:

    http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...?s=5088&e=5419

    http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...?s=8045&e=8352

    http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...=10807&e=11175

    http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...?s=6494&e=6794

    There's more in there raid stopped after thok. We were 3 healing it because initially the raid leader was concerned that I might be too low(537) the 2 other healers were around 555. That might make the numbers a little harder to read I was more hoping for some feedback on my spell usage. I tried to look at logs from other disc priests to see if I should be using something more or less but on Nazgrim for example my PWS healing was super high, I used it whenever someone got bonecracker.

    My Armory: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...3%B2xic/simple

    Thanks for any help you can give me.

  2. #2
    Naz and Iron are both fights that aren't designed all that well for a disc priest. Everything you did was fine but I would recommend Cascade for 10m on those fights. It's been my experience that players do tend to get spread out on those fights. Either people are getting knocked back or avoiding puddles on Iron or they are avoiding stuff on the ground and attacking adds on Naz. In both circumstances you will rarely have enough people in range of your Halo to get the most out of it. Oh sure it can be effective if you can get perfect positioning. But I've found Cascade to have a much smaller margin of error on those bosses and lends itself much more favorably.

    Thok though....I don't know what you were doing on Thok. That fight heavily favors disc. I question if you are using your abilities at the right time. I always use Spirit Shell when entering the stack phase. I use Inner Focus + PoH as many times as I can especially once you get past 7-8 stacks of acceleration. I noticed you didn't use much PoM, that spell is critical on that fight. I also prefer Divine Insight due to how it effects PW:S. I would cast Penance during high stacks of Acceleration and then stop cast it by using escape then cast double PW:S on a target or cast it on a person who already has the weakened Soul debuff. I also noticed you weren't speced into Solace. Solace is basically a free heal that stacks Eva. Being able to keep that Eva buff up to pop AA during high stacks to PW:S spam the raid can pull huge numbers. Don't worry about mana on that fight, burn through it all during the stack phases, you can always get it back when Thok is chasing people around the room.

    Looking at your armory I would say you don't need to be reforging into so much spirit. Sure you want to get to a level that you are comfortable with but I would highly recommend not doing it and instead dump your excess points into more crit.

    Overall from your logs you seem to be doing what needs to be done. Fight experience will greatly improve your numbers. Tweek your reforging and fix your Thok performance and you should be fine.

  3. #3
    The Lightbringer Tarien's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    3,640
    Quote Originally Posted by Noxate View Post
    My Armory: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...3%B2xic/simple

    Thanks for any help you can give me.
    Considering the ilvl difference you did quite well. However, here are a few pointers that I wish someone had given me a month ago when I started Disc healing for the first time since WotLK:

    First and foremost, STACK CRIT! The best disc priests out there have something like 38% crit, you're on half that. Crit procs Divine Aegis which should be your main healing tool! Reforge to it, gem for it, gear for it. Avoid haste. When I started out healing my HPS was about 50k, I did some research discovered that crit is best, sorted my gear out (13->26% crit) and my healing literally doubled. So get some more crit, and then some more.

    Don't go over about 10-11k spirit unbuffed (reforge it to crit), and once you have the legendary meta gem you can shave another 1-2k off that. Get used to using Mindbender on cooldown and where possible at the same time as Hymn of Hope (and if you have it, Power Infusion, pet benefits from haste). I generally use MB about 30s into the fight (gets me back to 95%+ mana) and then at 1m 30s use MB+HoH so that if it's a long fight I can get a second HoH in. Penance is a powerful spell but also mana hungry as hell compared to smite, so use it wisely.

    Your top tier talents (Cascade, Divine Star) are massively under utilised, get good at timing these with heavy raid damage. DS is better than Cascade unless you're very spread out. DS should be used immediately as a response to heavy damage or if there is none due for 5-15s as a preshielder (it procs Divine Aegis). Cascade is trickier as it needs to be used 2s before the raid takes damage so that will take some practice, and macro it to cast it at yourself to ensure you never accidentally cast it at the boss wasting it.

    Always try to keep up Archangel, the only reason I would delay it is to use in conjunction with DS or Cascade, but only by a few seconds at most.

    Stop spamming PW: Shield. Use it once every 12s as it's practically free and on a tank will always give great returns, or to save someone on super low health who would otherwise die, or if moving and everything else is on CD. But we are not shield spammers anymore! It's expensive as hell outside of the 12s Rapture returns.

    Get something to track PoM, WeakAuras is great and there are some strings you can import floating about. I get a nice little icon up when it has both come off cooldown and isn't on someone in the raid, ensuring maximum uptime (if you want the string for WeakAuras just PM me I'll grab it tonight when I get home).

    Use Inner Focus + Prayer of Healing pretty much on CD to shield a chunk of your raid. Use Spirit Shell more or less on CD (wouldn't wait more than 15s) to shield your raid with Prayer of Healing. In ten mans you can shield each group twice and that usually caps it, in 25s use it with Power Infusion and you will get all five groups shielded, maybe double heals on 1-2 groups during heroism. Fantastic spell for mitigating raid wide damage and 1min is a really nice CD length.

    Ultimately we're about Divine Aegis and for that you need crit. Try to get your 2p T16 bonus ASAP as it is worth 10% crit while Archangel is active, and that is HUGE.

    That's all I got for now but that should be plenty to go on
    Playing: WoW (11/14HC), BF3
    PC: i5 4670k @ 4.4GHz // GTX 780 // 16GB DDR3 // 750GB Samsung 840 EVO // 3x 27" 1440p
    Thinking is the hardest work there is, which is probably why few engage in it. - H. Ford

  4. #4
    armory:

    You dont need more then 11k spirit. For normal encounters, 3-healed, you dont need more then 9,5k spirit*
    - remove pure spirit gems
    - remove all spirit-containing gems from red sockets (put crit+int in there)
    - remove all spirit-related gems from yellow sockets (put either pure crit or crit+int in there)
    - push up to get legendary meta

    * there are priests using more spirit, i did use more spirit for progressing on something hc back then, but this was for a specific need, specific encounter requiring specific playstyle. there are also priests using less spirit. first you have to learn, then you can start experimenting.

    You need crit. The more the merrier.

    playstyle:

    - you seem to be pw:s blanketing. nothing wrong with that, but you dont really have gear for it yet (no legendary meta, very low crit), maybe thats why you wear tons of spirit. dont. less blanketing, more crit, more atonement spam for now. if you feel that you rather gem spirit then crit, cause you need more mana for more pw:s spam, then it means you do too much of it.
    - top spell spirit shell. while spirit shell is fun, it really is, try to remove it from bars and do 2-3 normal raid bosses without spirit shell, while still having good performance. as for now, you seem to be relying on it and only for it. there are many other tools in priests spells-bag
    - prayer of healing is viable even without spirit shell
    - halo - wouldnt divine star be more efficient?
    - more pom's
    - divine aegis - this should be on top of your every list. if its not you clearly need more crit.

    dont worry, everything is fine, priests are super fun, just try applying some advices and find your way to enjoy healing

  5. #5
    The Patient
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Manchester
    Posts
    237
    Quote Originally Posted by babylon View Post
    armory:

    You dont need more then 11k spirit. For normal encounters, 3-healed, you dont need more then 9,5k spirit*
    - remove pure spirit gems
    - remove all spirit-containing gems from red sockets (put crit+int in there)
    - remove all spirit-related gems from yellow sockets (put either pure crit or crit+int in there)
    - push up to get legendary meta

    * there are priests using more spirit, i did use more spirit for progressing on something hc back then, but this was for a specific need, specific encounter requiring specific playstyle. there are also priests using less spirit. first you have to learn, then you can start experimenting.

    You need crit. The more the merrier.

    playstyle:

    - you seem to be pw:s blanketing. nothing wrong with that, but you dont really have gear for it yet (no legendary meta, very low crit), maybe thats why you wear tons of spirit. dont. less blanketing, more crit, more atonement spam for now. if you feel that you rather gem spirit then crit, cause you need more mana for more pw:s spam, then it means you do too much of it.
    - top spell spirit shell. while spirit shell is fun, it really is, try to remove it from bars and do 2-3 normal raid bosses without spirit shell, while still having good performance. as for now, you seem to be relying on it and only for it. there are many other tools in priests spells-bag
    - prayer of healing is viable even without spirit shell
    - halo - wouldnt divine star be more efficient?
    - more pom's
    - divine aegis - this should be on top of your every list. if its not you clearly need more crit.

    dont worry, everything is fine, priests are super fun, just try applying some advices and find your way to enjoy healing


    Just checking on something - I thought PoH put DA on by default (even if it didnt crit?) I just logged in to check and it didnt put it on myself when I used it.

    Is this an old mechanic or did it never do it unless it crit'd?

    Thanks

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by BombayRoll View Post
    Is this an old mechanic or did it never do it unless it crit'd?
    That was an old mechanic that was removed.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Tarien View Post
    Penance is a powerful spell but also mana hungry as hell compared to smite, so use it wisely.
    I thought penance was supposed to be one of the more mana efficient heals? I use it on CD along with Holy fire for atonement healing.

    Quote Originally Posted by babylon View Post
    - more pom's
    Yeah I wasn't using PoM too much because I figured when I was shielding people so much they wouldn't take damage and it wouldn't end up getting used. I reforged out of a lot of my spirit and am now at around 10k spirit and 23% crit

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Noxate View Post
    I thought penance was supposed to be one of the more mana efficient heals? I use it on CD along with Holy fire for atonement healing.



    Yeah I wasn't using PoM too much because I figured when I was shielding people so much they wouldn't take damage and it wouldn't end up getting used. I reforged out of a lot of my spirit and am now at around 10k spirit and 23% crit
    From my experience, basicly only 10m hc, i rarely use Cascade, and the fights in particular you were talking about (jugg and naz if im not mistaken) i found halo to be particularly strong. On jug i only use PW:shield on current tank and targets with the burning debuff, usually it lasts almost the entire duration.

    Regarding penance hell i dunno about the guy you quoted but i use it on cd if im on attonement mode. Also on the "regen" tier i prefer Solace, free spell that gives you mana back on a short cd, what's there not to like?

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Noxate View Post
    I thought penance was supposed to be one of the more mana efficient heals? I use it on CD along with Holy fire for atonement healing.
    Penance should be used virtually on CD through atonement. I noticed you changed your gems, which should give you a lot more consistent DA on the raid (make sure to enchant your shoulders!). Similar to Void's experience, Divine star and Halo outperform Cascade depending on the fight. I haven't used Cascade this tier really at all.

    If you haven't checked it out, there is tons of amazing info at HowtoPriest.com, of specific note fight by fight talent choice analysis from the community. If you're looking for some good Weak Auras to track CDs, I found Derevka's to be very helpful at Tales of a Priest. It looks like you're well on your way though, welcome back!

    Edit: For Thok specifically it looks like you can maximize spirit shell a bit more. I wait until after the first screech to apply it to the raid. That gives me plenty of time of uninterrupted casting to make sure I get good coverage on both groups with AA and IF. After spirit shell wears off I usually drop barrier. When his stacks of acceleration get too high, I just use DS and HF(or solace) on CD and PWS plus PoM. AA should be up again before the phase is over, so I pop it for some nice DA from DS (tier set bonus makes it practically guaranteed).
    Last edited by Sakamae; 2014-02-13 at 07:27 PM.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by voidillusion View Post
    From my experience, basicly only 10m hc, i rarely use Cascade, and the fights in particular you were talking about (jugg and naz if im not mistaken) i found halo to be particularly strong. On jug i only use PW:shield on current tank and targets with the burning debuff, usually it lasts almost the entire duration.

    Regarding penance hell i dunno about the guy you quoted but i use it on cd if im on attonement mode. Also on the "regen" tier i prefer Solace, free spell that gives you mana back on a short cd, what's there not to like?
    I picked mindbender because it seemed like it was what most people were using. I wasn't really atonement healing too much besides stacking for AA and I hadn't healed since they put atonement in the game so I guess I don't fully get how it works or when to use it yet. After I've run into a bunch of other disc priests though it seems like people hardly use Flash heal anymore or almost any direct heal/"real" heal besides PoM and PoH. I like using binding heal a fair bit but it's quite expensive Im assuming it works somewhat like flash heal for emergency healing. Also is there ever a reason to try and put grace stacks on a tank or something like that?

    Oh also I like solace quite a bit and the additional crit has helped a fair bit while I honestly don't notice a huge difference in mana regen. Another question I guess I have is disc supposed to be played similar to a dps rotation now? Say if no one is dieing is it still worth spamming atonement heals in order to put divine aegis on people and build evangelism or no?
    Last edited by Noxate; 2014-02-13 at 09:26 PM.

  11. #11
    Herald of the Titans Yakobro's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    England
    Posts
    2,643
    The regen from mindbender is virtually the same as solace, mindbender gives more dps though and can be better if used with Hymn though.

    The only time I really use direct heals and penance (for for healing) if when I know somemone's going to be taking really huge dmg and Pain Suppression is on CD.

    Using meta gem + rapture is really big for regen.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Amezea View Post
    That was an old mechanic that was removed.
    Do you guys know why in particular it was removed? I'm coming back now to my disc and noticed that PoH doesn't automatically apply DA, does this mean that PoH is used a lot less? (Barring the inner focus --> PoH use)

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Noxate View Post
    I picked mindbender because it seemed like it was what most people were using. I wasn't really atonement healing too much besides stacking for AA and I hadn't healed since they put atonement in the game so I guess I don't fully get how it works or when to use it yet. After I've run into a bunch of other disc priests though it seems like people hardly use Flash heal anymore or almost any direct heal/"real" heal besides PoM and PoH. I like using binding heal a fair bit but it's quite expensive Im assuming it works somewhat like flash heal for emergency healing. Also is there ever a reason to try and put grace stacks on a tank or something like that?

    Oh also I like solace quite a bit and the additional crit has helped a fair bit while I honestly don't notice a huge difference in mana regen. Another question I guess I have is disc supposed to be played similar to a dps rotation now? Say if no one is dieing is it still worth spamming atonement heals in order to put divine aegis on people and build evangelism or no?
    My plasystyle and i imagine most of us is to just keeping the attonement rotation with Smite, Solace and penance, using AA on CD since its duration is long, use Shield timed for rapture. This is your bread and butter, but ofc special fights need you to adjust when needed, use a SS here and there, use DS on cd on some fights, etc.

  14. #14
    The Lightbringer Tarien's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    3,640
    Quote Originally Posted by Yakobro View Post
    The regen from mindbender is virtually the same as solace
    What?

    Mindbender attacks every 1.5s minimum and lasts 15s, restores 1.75% mana, so at least ten attacks gives you 10*1.75 = 17.5% of your mana

    Solace = 1% of your mana plus another 1.8% saved because it costs no mana while Holy Fire costs 5400. So 2.8% every 10s, 6 times a minute gets you 6*2.8 = 16.8% mana.

    Not only do you have to only cast MB once and so you dont have to lose precious seconds six times a minute, it can attack more often with the benefit of haste from gear, power infusion and heroism, and its returns stack with Hymn of Hope.

    Mindbender is the best regen, hands down. No it's not I was wrong!

    EDIT: Forgot that you can use Shadowfiend as well, so that equates to an additional 8%/min of regen for Solace users, which gives a total of 24.8% for solace+shadowfiend users vs 17.5% for mindbender users. Of course it's not as clear cut as that, you have to be using Solace and Shadowfiend/Mindbender on CD, then there's the effect of haste on your regen pets, but generally speaking Solace is the best source of mana regen.
    Last edited by Tarien; 2014-02-14 at 09:00 AM.
    Playing: WoW (11/14HC), BF3
    PC: i5 4670k @ 4.4GHz // GTX 780 // 16GB DDR3 // 750GB Samsung 840 EVO // 3x 27" 1440p
    Thinking is the hardest work there is, which is probably why few engage in it. - H. Ford

  15. #15
    Herald of the Titans Yakobro's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    England
    Posts
    2,643
    Quote Originally Posted by Tarien View Post
    What?

    Mindbender attacks every 1.5s minimum and lasts 15s, restores 1.75% mana, so at least ten attacks gives you 10*1.75 = 17.5% of your mana

    Solace = 1% of your mana plus another 1.8% saved because it costs no mana while Holy Fire costs 5400. So 2.8% every 10s, 6 times a minute gets you 6*2.8 = 16.8% mana.

    Not only do you have to only cast MB once and so you dont have to lose precious seconds six times a minute, it can attack more often with the benefit of haste from gear, power infusion and heroism, and its returns stack with Hymn of Hope.

    Mindbender is the best regen, hands down.
    But you also sacrifice the regen you get from normal Shadowfiend

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by lizon View Post
    Naz and Iron are both fights that aren't designed all that well for a disc priest. Everything you did was fine but I would recommend Cascade for 10m on those fights. It's been my experience that players do tend to get spread out on those fights. Either people are getting knocked back or avoiding puddles on Iron or they are avoiding stuff on the ground and attacking adds on Naz. In both circumstances you will rarely have enough people in range of your Halo to get the most out of it. Oh sure it can be effective if you can get perfect positioning. But I've found Cascade to have a much smaller margin of error on those bosses and lends itself much more favorably.
    Cascade is terrible for disc, halo and DS are far superior. All you need for halo is to judge a reasonable position to get a good use out of it and for stacked fights nothing beats out Divine Star, halo in good gear will hit for 600k on multiple people where as cascade takes far too long to bounce around everywhere and barely hits for 200k on crits.

    Basics to disc for the OP are, PW:Shield as much as your mana allows but at least one every 12 secs for rapture procs, use spirit shell prior to large incoming damage as often as possible, use Arch Angel on cd pretty much unless you want to save it for a few more secs for extra needed healing/damage with t162set 10% extra crit, with 2set t16 try and use mindbender on every archangel proc to maximise damage.

    Atonement is your primary way of healing as disc, only use prayer of mending when there is persistant AoE otherwise its just a waste, only use PoH as a heal when you really need to AoE heal and there is no target to heal through atonement. Also glyth binding heal as its a very nice fast heal but has a large mana cost so use wisely.

    Once you attain LMG track the procs and use 2-3 shields as best possible every proc and any lucky procs while you need to pop halo will save lots of mana.

    Stat prio is without LMG spi (12k ish or what you feel is comfortable) - crit - mastery - haste, use spi/crit, crit or int/crit gems in all slots avoid any extra spi if possible

    Stats with LMG spi (7-8k max depending on how well you manage the procs) - crit - mastery - haste, same gem prios

    talents - halo/DS depending on fight, mindbender for more damage and others are pretty straight forward.

    Main things is to learn your fights then you know exactly when damage is incoming as this is the main thing about disc, if you know the fights well as disc can prepare and minimise the need for any extra healing needed.

    Quote Originally Posted by Yakobro View Post
    But you also sacrifice the regen you get from normal Shadowfiend
    you don't sacrifice anything if mindbender is used on cd as it should it provides around equal or better regen in total not to mention the main benefit of the extra damage.
    Last edited by kenn9530; 2014-02-14 at 05:21 AM.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by kenn9530 View Post
    you don't sacrifice anything if mindbender is used on cd as it should it provides around equal or better regen in total not to mention the main benefit of the extra damage.
    Minbender: Minbender
    Solace: Solace+Shadowfiend

    Do you understand now?

  18. #18
    The Lightbringer Tarien's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    3,640
    Quote Originally Posted by Yakobro View Post
    But you also sacrifice the regen you get from normal Shadowfiend
    Yeah edited, thanks for that. Seems no one really has written a good, up to date Disc guide with those figures in. Tempted now to swap to Solace... and then I can reforge even more spirit to crit

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by voidillusion View Post
    Regarding penance hell i dunno about the guy you quoted but i use it on cd if im on attonement mode.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sakamae View Post
    Penance should be used virtually on CD through atonement.
    Hmm, do you glyph it to be useable while moving but cost 20% more? I find it really expensive, my mana goes fast if I use it a lot.
    Playing: WoW (11/14HC), BF3
    PC: i5 4670k @ 4.4GHz // GTX 780 // 16GB DDR3 // 750GB Samsung 840 EVO // 3x 27" 1440p
    Thinking is the hardest work there is, which is probably why few engage in it. - H. Ford

  19. #19
    Herald of the Titans Yakobro's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    England
    Posts
    2,643
    Quote Originally Posted by Tarien View Post
    Yeah edited, thanks for that. Seems no one really has written a good, up to date Disc guide with those figures in. Tempted now to swap to Solace... and then I can reforge even more spirit to crit
    The thing is you have to hit it ON CD to get max returns
    Even a delay of 1 second would be a 17% reduction in effectiveness per cast, and if there's a point at which you can't then it's basically wasted.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Noxate View Post
    I picked mindbender because it seemed like it was what most people were using. I wasn't really atonement healing too much besides stacking for AA and I hadn't healed since they put atonement in the game so I guess I don't fully get how it works or when to use it yet. After I've run into a bunch of other disc priests though it seems like people hardly use Flash heal anymore or almost any direct heal/"real" heal besides PoM and PoH. I like using binding heal a fair bit but it's quite expensive Im assuming it works somewhat like flash heal for emergency healing. Also is there ever a reason to try and put grace stacks on a tank or something like that?

    Oh also I like solace quite a bit and the additional crit has helped a fair bit while I honestly don't notice a huge difference in mana regen. Another question I guess I have is disc supposed to be played similar to a dps rotation now? Say if no one is dieing is it still worth spamming atonement heals in order to put divine aegis on people and build evangelism or no?

    I only use flash heal when i need a quick fast heal (Immerseus blobs after using Halo and penance) or if i really need to save someone from dying (after popping a shield on them). Binding heal is a great spell when used with the glyph, for example Garrosh empowered whirl, you need quick and fast heals and people are spread. But aside from that i dont use it, it still cost alot of mana. Always use penance offensive, tho if u got an undergeared tank or a hard hitting boss it can be nice to stack grace on them. Only use PoM if u can get full use out of it, with low dmg normally its not worth using it as it wont bounce around, make sure there is some sort of aoe dmg going on and it will reach enough people.

    Disc is a healer that should always be casting. So even if nobody is taking dmg u be spamming your atonement rotation (penance and holy fire on cd then smite). You be stacking DA on people for incoming dmg and heal them same time and youll always have 5 stacks of evang. Even when there is low dmg always use archangel on cd, even more with 2 set T16 (tho if u know there is heavy aoe dmg incomming u can delay it abit for SS+AA+IF 10 secons beforehand). And ofc u be doing dps = boss dying faster.

    I also prefer mindbender as i find solace easier to forget when heavy dmg is inc and if u combine it with Hymn u almost get full mana back if needed. For Solace to be close to same mana regen as mindbender u need to use it on cd always.

    Hmm, do you glyph it to be useable while moving but cost 20% more? I find it really expensive, my mana goes fast if I use it a lot.
    Everyone should glyph it. I always use it on cd and everyone should, tbh it doesn´t cost much mana after u gained some evang stacks. Never had problems with it, so maybe u arent handleing your mana well? Minderbender on cd, shield for rapture, hymn combined with MB, and even potions. If you got the legendary gem also find a way to track it and PW:s on (main)tanks for no costing shields, but u still get mana back from rapture.
    Last edited by shinbout; 2014-02-14 at 09:22 AM.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •