How is marksmanship?

[Teebu]

Play whatever you like the most or whichever you "feel" better with. That's the spec you will perform best at since all three specs are very close. On my Mage, I swap specs weekly because I enjoy all of them and know that on most fights I will perform about equally if I don't scumbag the meters.

[Deleted]

Play whatever you like the most or whichever you "feel" better with. That's the spec you will perform best at since all three specs are very close. On my Mage, I swap specs weekly because I enjoy all of them and know that on most fights I will perform about equally if I don't scumbag the meters.

SV and BM are very close. MM is not close to them. MM will perform to a reasonable level in high end gear (still quite a long way behind BM/SV) on fights such as Juggernaut/Malkorok/Paragons of the Klaxxi/Siegecrafter Blackfuse. It won't be optimal as the other two specs on other fights though. If OP is a more casual player though, indeed, play the spec you like the most.

[Keny]

You people need to chill the hell up, the amount of epeen in this thread is sky rocketing.
And for gods sake listen to each other, MM can be competitive stop this FoTM thing already.

[Deleted]

You people need to chill the hell up, the amount of epeen in this thread is sky rocketing.
And for gods sake listen to each other, MM can be competitive stop this FoTM thing already.

Finally someone it that ! TY!

[Deleted]

i am kinda bored of sv right now, i am only in 566 gear and i mostly dont ve all buffs in my raid, (haste missing 90% of the time cuz i ve to pick wolf) with sv my dps is in 95% percentile at epeen (whatever that means) and my raid depends on my damage....but i wanna specc into something else, i aint got no ted and only nhc wf weapon. how would u guys reforge for mm? and someone of u guys who played mm for a bit, any footage on twitch or youtube?

searched a bit on youtube and all i see is some hunters who do weird stuff with mm, not learning much from it.

[Conjor]

You people need to chill the hell up, the amount of epeen in this thread is sky rocketing.

Honestly it's not a matter of epeen but a matter of the average hunter being simply being ignorant. Literally all I've heard going through this thread is "MM is shit because MM is shit and it can't pad."

And for gods sake listen to each other, MM can be competitive stop this FoTM thing already.

It can be more then competitive under certain conditions, but it goes a little deeper then just being a FotM thing. The average player has no other resource then WoL and the recommendations of other players to go on when deciding whether a spec is worthwhile. So when the masses all gravitate away from a spec (because MM was shit the past 2 tiers) the community gets into a cycle where everyone thinks a spec is bad simply because everyone thinks a spec is bad.

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i am kinda bored of sv right now, i am only in 566 gear and i mostly dont ve all buffs in my raid, (haste missing 90% of the time cuz i ve to pick wolf) with sv my dps is in 95% percentile at epeen (whatever that means) and my raid depends on my damage....but i wanna specc into something else, i aint got no ted and only nhc wf weapon. how would u guys reforge for mm? and someone of u guys who played mm for a bit, any footage on twitch or youtube?

searched a bit on youtube and all i see is some hunters who do weird stuff with mm, not learning much from it.

It won't be worth it DPS wise with that kind of gear setup. But, if you REALLY want to go MM you want to go Crit >= Haste >>>>>>>> Mastery. When deciding gems / socket bonuses, Agility is worth about twice what Crit is worth.

If anything I would recommend going BM if you want to switch it up.

[Kissthebaby]

i am kinda bored of sv right now, i am only in 566 gear and i mostly dont ve all buffs in my raid, (haste missing 90% of the time cuz i ve to pick wolf) with sv my dps is in 95% percentile at epeen (whatever that means) and my raid depends on my damage....but i wanna specc into something else, i aint got no ted and only nhc wf weapon. how would u guys reforge for mm? and someone of u guys who played mm for a bit, any footage on twitch or youtube?

searched a bit on youtube and all i see is some hunters who do weird stuff with mm, not learning much from it.

You can play BM even without TED if you are looking to switch it up. The reforge for mm is the same as survival. I have no footage but I can prob get next weeks raid if you want.

[Deleted]

would be cool, gonna start playing bm now, haste > mastery > crit even on that ilvl? 566 :x gonna sim it i guess

[Azortharion]

would be cool, gonna start playing bm now, haste > mastery > crit even on that ilvl? 566 :x gonna sim it i guess

That reforge is p.much best yeah. (Crit and Mastery are p.much equal single-target with Mastery pulling ahead for AoE). If you got lots of crit on your gear, go for a balance - if you don't, go Haste > Mastery > Crit.

[movzx]

I do enjoy that all the WoL stuff was dismissed as cheesing with AoE when even on iron jug, a fight with no adds you can cheese on, MM is well behind.

Beast Mastery; 460-510k
Survival; 460-510k dps
Marksmanship; 390-430k dps

That's almost a 100k difference.

[Deleted]

I do enjoy that all the WoL stuff was dismissed as cheesing with AoE when even on iron jug, a fight with no adds you can cheese on, MM is well behind.



That's almost a 100k difference.

Pretty much this. Yes, SV and BM are more proficient at being able to cheese larger numbers than MM, but the fact still stands MM is way behind SV and BM in high end gear, even on pure single target. The only time where MM would really shine compared to the other two specs, is as was Conjors situation, ToT trinkets (aka no option for a reduced Bestial Wrath) and a good weapon, compared to the rest of your gear. A few people in this thread seem to be religiously ignoring this though.

I do feel compelled to say though, the difference isn't quite as large as Toffie made out, SV ranks for juggernaut are more in the 440-470k range, and BM, only a couple of people are above 470k, with Megabloks reaching just over 500 with some god like RNG. That being said, still an average of 50-70k behind the other two specs though.

[Conjor]

Pretty much this. Yes, SV and BM are more proficient at being able to cheese larger numbers than MM, but the fact still stands MM is way behind SV and BM in high end gear, even on pure single target. The only time where MM would really shine compared to the other two specs, is as was Conjors situation, ToT trinkets (aka no option for a reduced Bestial Wrath) and a good weapon, compared to the rest of your gear. A few people in this thread seem to be religiously ignoring this though.

I do feel compelled to say though, the difference isn't quite as large as Toffie made out, SV ranks for juggernaut are more in the 440-470k range, and BM, only a couple of people are above 470k, with Megabloks reaching just over 500 with some god like RNG. That being said, still an average of 50-70k behind the other two specs though.

So let me get this straight - someone who is progressing should only care about ranks from people who have cleared all the content, have had it on farm for weeks / months, massively outgear the fights, AND luck out and get tons of RNG.

Look at what the OP asked. He asked if MM was worth playing. Considering that, he probably hasn't come close to clearing SoO on heroic. So for me, the answer is yes, Marks is worth playing. Is it going to get you the highest ranking potential? No. Why? Because Survival has a much higher RNG threshold for ranking. Hello 50 seconds of Explosive Shots with constant Viscous procs anyone? That just doesn't happen with Marks.

Now, these "claims" that marks is "way" (I love the non-definitive term here) behind the other specs because the "top" parses on WoL show that differential is next to pointless to analyze. Why? because those top parses are full of RNG, massively long LnL proc streaks, multiple back to back viscous procs. Good luck getting those kinds of numbers consistently. It's like trying to compare Feral parses on Iron Juggernaut to a parse that gets a 10 stack TED rip up at 35%, pushing boss to 25%, keeping it up for the rest of the fight and having half the raid die during execute. Cool story, would read again.

Run some sims. Reforge and regem properly. Learn to play Marks. In the end, unless you massively overgear a fight or get crazy RNG, you won't see a big difference between the specs, even at max gear levels. And for those that feel that WoL is the end-all repository of WoW knowledge, I point you to every blue post ever made about balance where "claims" of imbalance have been made, citing WoL as proof of a spec / class being under powered. And on top of that, I point you to every post I made about Marks when the tier first hit, showing time and time again that Marks is more then viable, and under some circumstances, the best ST spec.

I feel like its time for me to bow out of this thread. Good luck with your progression guys, and may the procs be with you.

[Deleted]

There are a few encounters where it's roughly level-ish with the other two specs. On everything else its miles behind. For that reason it shall remain a trash spec that is only played by people who are bored on farm.

[eschatological]

You presented 1 log of the number one guild in the world, I also showed logs on me playing marksman for one week and being competitive. If only after playing a spec I never play for one week and I am competitive then imagine how much I could improve if I played every week ( which i don't). Also you linked a log of malkarak well look at pottoms damage to adds compared to rogerbrown. http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...?s=8178&e=8435 (include his crab)

Your own log that you presented had 10m damage on the Orgrimmar faithful, adds which die in 2s in the beginning of a fight....when you're not cheesing the fight for ranks by keeping them in the back healed by shamans.

In fact, your log had 80% uptime on Nazgrim, 12% on the faithful, and obviously little-to-no-damage on the adds themselves....you essentially had to tunnel Nazgrim, and then push some AoE into the Faithful, to get your numbers that high. Unless you have a reason why your warrior's bladestorm and your multi-shot + flurry combined for a total of 63m damage on the Faithful, idk how you can present a Nazgrim log as a sign of MM "keeping up" on a ST fight with "AoE components" when you're cheesing the AoE components.

Conjor's situation, (single target, like Klaxxi), where your weapon is much higher ilvl than the rest of your gear, is the only "acceptable" place to play MM. Obviously, you can play whatever the hell you want, but whatever.

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Conjor, even your video shows you not in the top 8 for a long time, and eventually when you do appear, it's because of everyone else's damage going down, and not yours being particularly competitive. You range around 315-320k when you're on the meters, and you guys made your rogues jump in Aims, which dropped them off the top of the meters pretty early, and then you had all your melee running out for Rapid Fires, and THEN all of the melee with orange catalyst had to run to the very edges of the room for toxins, and only then you appeared on the meters. IDK wtf your warlocks were doing to drop so far off the meters when they were spots 2-4 for most of the fight. Not to mention both of the other hunters died, so no way to compare their damage to yours pre-death without a log. But I imagine even in Duality you have some variance of skill between you and them.

[i2adar]

OT:

Marks in PVP is in a much better spot than it was at the begining of MOP
Marks in PVE not so hot. Better off BM or Surv.

[Kissthebaby]

Your own log that you presented had 10m damage on the Orgrimmar faithful, adds which die in 2s in the beginning of a fight....when you're not cheesing the fight for ranks by keeping them in the back healed by shamans.

In fact, your log had 80% uptime on Nazgrim, 12% on the faithful, and obviously little-to-no-damage on the adds themselves....you essentially had to tunnel Nazgrim, and then push some AoE into the Faithful, to get your numbers that high. Unless you have a reason why your warrior's bladestorm and your multi-shot + flurry combined for a total of 63m damage on the Faithful, idk how you can present a Nazgrim log as a sign of MM "keeping up" on a ST fight with "AoE components" when you're cheesing the AoE components.

Conjor's situation, (single target, like Klaxxi), where your weapon is much higher ilvl than the rest of your gear, is the only "acceptable" place to play MM. Obviously, you can play whatever the hell you want, but whatever.

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Conjor, even your video shows you not in the top 8 for a long time, and eventually when you do appear, it's because of everyone else's damage going down, and not yours being particularly competitive. You range around 315-320k when you're on the meters, and you guys made your rogues jump in Aims, which dropped them off the top of the meters pretty early, and then you had all your melee running out for Rapid Fires, and THEN all of the melee with orange catalyst had to run to the very edges of the room for toxins, and only then you appeared on the meters. IDK wtf your warlocks were doing to drop so far off the meters when they were spots 2-4 for most of the fight. Not to mention both of the other hunters died, so no way to compare their damage to yours pre-death without a log. But I imagine even in Duality you have some variance of skill between you and them.

thats not cheesing that is just aoeing the adds at the start which everyone does. cheesing is this http://worldoflogs.com/rankings/play...rvival_Hunter/ you see the top 3 parses. Also my dps would be higher if I was say surv or and was dpsing the adds becuz we have them stacked on the boss. We also attack though defensive because our raid dps is so high. Basically it was just single target minus the start and cloak procs. and I was able to keep up with people who were able to cleave and gain dps.

We dont keep adds alive in the back like some guilds do to pad.

[Hb]

People don't talk about Marks because it's not worth talking about in PVE.

It's solid in PVP though.

Solid in PvP? Its broken OP.

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OT:

Marks in PVP is in a much better spot than it was at the begining of MOP

Eh wat? MM is really OP atm. Maybe not in the hands of a 1500 player.. but if someone good plays it its pretty disgusting..

[Boricha]

Marks is below the others in any PvE encounter.
Marks is superb in PvP due to silencing shot and the fact that chimera shot is an extremely hard hitting ability.

[Kissthebaby]

Marks is below the others in any PvE encounter.
Marks is superb in PvP due to silencing shot and the fact that chimera shot is an extremely hard hitting ability.

Its always nice when someone who hasnt even killed a normal mode boss can state how MM is in pve.

[Hb]

Marks is below the others in any PvE encounter.
Marks is superb in PvP due to silencing shot and the fact that chimera shot is an extremely hard hitting ability.

and because hunters have "infinite" instant CC..