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  1. #1

    Why is Blizzard pushing WPVP?

    I do not understand why Blizzard is pushing WPVP in WoD. WPVP only became an issue in MOP when they made PVP gear complete trash in open world content.

    How exactly is WPVP going to work well in WoD?

    The PVP servers are largely lopsided, which means one faction severely out numbers the other.
    It just becomes lambs to the slaughter. It does not matter how good you are at PVP or how good your gear is when 80% to 95% of all players on your realm are enemies. You are just going to end up with the smaller faction buying more realm transfers. I guess that is good for Blizzard.

    Successful WPVP takes a good in-game transportation system.
    You need to be able to port all over the map as battles pop up at different places. WOW has one of the worst in-game transportation systems in the industry and that is with flying. Currently, if your friend is half a map away, and calls for help, it still takes significant time to get there. By the time help arrives the fighting is done. To make it worse, the removal of flight will completely kill WPVP, as it will be near impossible for guild members to come to a friends help that is in a different area.

    Can the server handle large groups of people in concentrated areas?
    People talk about how fun the Tarrin Mill/Southshore battles used to be in Vanilla. What no one mentions is how bad the lag was. It was really bad when everyone actually started fighting. I had a good computer with a good internet connection at the time and i used to get super lagged for those battles.

    Possible solutions

    Allow players to port to party members or raid members with a single click. This works well for Wildstar, Rift and others.

    Get rid of Flight paths and make them all portals.

    Allow for a secondary grouping mechanism like a guild for just your core PVP group. If you have a large group of people you pvp with who belong to different guilds, there should be an in-game way to send a message to everyone of them. I like how GW2 allows you to belong to multiple guilds at one time.

    Allow for Horde to switch to Alliance and vice versa. Every war has traitors.

    Allow for a third faction, an anti-faction. I would love to belong to the faction-less and battle both Alliance and Horde.

    Develop WPVP survival servers that only allow balanced population growth.

    I played Ultima Online since the beginning. Most of my entire time for years in that game was just WPVP. The ability to port around the game through portals and runes allowed for battles to last for hours, even days. It would be nice to play in an environment like that again.
    Last edited by Barkloud; 2014-08-13 at 03:24 PM.

  2. #2
    Mechagnome Alroxas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Barkloud View Post
    I do not understand why Blizzard is pushing WPVP. WPVP only became an issue in MOP when they made PVP gear complete trash in open world content.
    *Sigh*

    Ashran has a system that caps roughly to 100 players per side (similar to Wintergrasp, Tol Barad). Whether or not your side has good PvPers is a different story.

    PvP gear in WoD so far seems to be initially higher (ilv 660) and it looks like there is tech there to scale people up. Somehow I feel that this has been covered in other posts regarding this subject.
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  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Alroxas View Post
    *Sigh*

    Ashran has a system that caps roughly to 100 players per side (similar to Wintergrasp, Tol Barad). Whether or not your side has good PvPers is a different story.

    PvP gear in WoD so far seems to be initially higher (ilv 660) and it looks like there is tech there to scale people up. Somehow I feel that this has been covered in other posts regarding this subject.
    I am talking more about the organic WPVP that happens as enemies quest in the same area.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Barkloud View Post
    I do not understand why Blizzard is pushing WPVP in WoD. WPVP only became an issue in MOP when they made PVP gear complete trash in open world content.

    How exactly is WPVP going to work well in WoD?

    The PVP servers are largely lopsided, which means one faction severely out numbers the other.
    It just becomes lambs to the slaughter. It does not matter how good you are at PVP or how good your gear is when 80% to 95% of all players on your realm are enemies. You are just going to end up with the smaller faction buying more realm transfers. I guess that is good for Blizzard.

    Successful WPVP takes a good in-game transportation system.
    You need to be able to port all over the map as battles pop up at different places. WOW has one of the worst in-game transportation systems in the industry and that is with flying. Currently, if your friend is half a map away, and calls for help, it still takes significant time to get there. By the time help arrives the fighting is done. To make it worse, the removal of flight will completely kill WPVP, as it will be near impossible for guild members to come to a friends help that is in a different area.

    Can the server handle large groups of people in concentrated areas?
    People talk about how fun the Tarrin Mill/Southshore battles used to be in Vanilla. What no one mentions is how bad the lag was. It was really bad when everyone actually started fighting. I had a good computer with a good internet connection at the time and i used to get super lagged for those battles.

    Possible solutions

    Allow players to port to party members or raid members with a single click. This works well for Wildstar, Rift and others.

    Get rid of Flight paths and make them all portals.

    Allow for a secondary grouping mechanism like a guild for just your core PVP group. If you have a large group of people you pvp with who belong to different guilds, there should be an in-game way to send a message to everyone of them. I like how GW2 allows you to belong to multiple guilds at one time.

    Allow for Horde to switch to Alliance and vice versa. Every war has traitors.

    Allow for a third faction, an anti-faction. I would love to belong to the faction-less and battle both Alliance and Horde.

    Develop WPVP survival servers that only allow balanced population growth.

    I played Ultima Online since the beginning. Most of my entire time for years in that game was just WPVP. The ability to port around the game through portals and runes allowed for battles to last for hours, even days. It would be nice to play in an environment like that again.
    Is it just me, or did he say he doesn't think Blizzard should push WPvP in the beginning followed by tons of ideas of how to push WPvP?

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Gamestar View Post
    Is it just me, or did he say he doesn't think Blizzard should push WPvP in the beginning followed by tons of ideas of how to push WPvP?
    Fairly long post, maybe he changed his mind midway?

  6. #6
    Scarab Lord Gimlix's Avatar
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    Cause WoW is one of the only game with cool WPvP system.
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  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Barkloud View Post
    I do not understand why Blizzard is pushing WPVP in WoD. WPVP only became an issue in MOP when they made PVP gear complete trash in open world content.

    How exactly is WPVP going to work well in WoD?

    The PVP servers are largely lopsided, which means one faction severely out numbers the other.
    It just becomes lambs to the slaughter. It does not matter how good you are at PVP or how good your gear is when 80% to 95% of all players on your realm are enemies. You are just going to end up with the smaller faction buying more realm transfers. I guess that is good for Blizzard.

    Successful WPVP takes a good in-game transportation system.
    You need to be able to port all over the map as battles pop up at different places. WOW has one of the worst in-game transportation systems in the industry and that is with flying. Currently, if your friend is half a map away, and calls for help, it still takes significant time to get there. By the time help arrives the fighting is done. To make it worse, the removal of flight will completely kill WPVP, as it will be near impossible for guild members to come to a friends help that is in a different area.

    Can the server handle large groups of people in concentrated areas?
    People talk about how fun the Tarrin Mill/Southshore battles used to be in Vanilla. What no one mentions is how bad the lag was. It was really bad when everyone actually started fighting. I had a good computer with a good internet connection at the time and i used to get super lagged for those battles.

    [B]Possible solutions[/B

    Allow for Horde to switch to Alliance and vice versa. Every war has traitors.

    Allow for a third faction, an anti-faction. I would love to belong to the faction-less and battle both Alliance and Horde.
    those two points I like a lot and have talked about them in guild chat/vent a lot.
    should be a third faction call them the beatened or something like that.
    you could have the murlocks, orges,gnolls, valkyr etc... in it basically all the races we beat on as we level.
    would make sense they would group as they get sick of being beaten upon by both horde and alliance.
    would be fun.

    also, never understood why a race was always locked into one side or another. their is always turn coats should be so in the game too.

  8. #8
    They are trying to force the issue because there is not enough things happening in the game world and people lol about in there citys like nerds waiting for ques to pop.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Barkloud View Post
    I am talking more about the organic WPVP that happens as enemies quest in the same area.
    You do realise that calling something "pushed" then refering to it as "organic" is contradictory. If it's organic it happens naturally.

    If you're genuinely concerned about wpvp, play on a pve server. Don't dive in the piss pool and complain when there's piss in your mouth.

  10. #10
    If you want a full Wpvp/pvp game... wow is not this game. Sorry It was never meant to be a heavy pvp oriented game.
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  11. #11
    For the first point - crossrealm servers. Pandaria wasn't crossrealm, which was clearly a mistake.

    For the second point, and this is obvious - flying destroys world PvP. They've said they're going to make flight paths much better, which is a much better way to travel to a fight than by having flying, since that'll allow the opposing team to flee in a couple of seconds and the fighting will be over.

    For the third point - do you really not think they've upgraded their servers for 10 years?

    Most of your "possible solutions" will probably cause more harm than good to the game as a whole; such as faction changing (I assume this is instant and without changing your character's race), third faction would be terrible, and making flight paths into portals would deter from the quality of the game. Rift didn't only benefit from it, and I'm sure they didn't do it for the players' convenience alone.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Segus1992 View Post
    For the first point - crossrealm servers. Pandaria wasn't crossrealm, which was clearly a mistake.

    For the second point, and this is obvious - flying destroys world PvP. They've said they're going to make flight paths much better, which is a much better way to travel to a fight than by having flying, since that'll allow the opposing team to flee in a couple of seconds and the fighting will be over.

    For the third point - do you really not think they've upgraded their servers for 10 years?

    Most of your "possible solutions" will probably cause more harm than good to the game as a whole; such as faction changing (I assume this is instant and without changing your character's race), third faction would be terrible, and making flight paths into portals would deter from the quality of the game. Rift didn't only benefit from it, and I'm sure they didn't do it for the players' convenience alone.
    Yet the Rift travel system is loved by their players.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Barkloud View Post
    To make it worse, the removal of flight will completely kill WPVP, as it will be near impossible for guild members to come to a friends help that is in a different area.
    Except the "golden age" of wow wpvp was Vanilla, in which there was no flying, hardly anyone had fast ground transport, your hearthstone had an hour cooldown and flightpaths had to be navigated manually. Yet somehow I still managed to call in ten guildmates to Shimmering Flats of all places to engage in what ended up being an hour long rumble with enemy. This point is invalid. Getting ganked and having the perp fly away is not wpvp.

    People talk about how fun the Tarrin Mill/Southshore battles used to be in Vanilla. What no one mentions is how bad the lag was. It was really bad when everyone actually started fighting. I had a good computer with a good internet connection at the time and i used to get super lagged for those battles.
    Yet my crap dell laptop and standard cable connection let me do it without a hiccup. Not sure what lag you're talking about, but Southshore Tug of War had no more lag than the Iceblood choke point or Korrak blender in old AV. ie: completely manageable.
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  14. #14
    Allow players to port to party members or raid members with a single click. This works well for Wildstar, Rift and others.
    That sounds awful.

  15. #15
    We had years of no flight in Azeroth yet plenty of world pvp without portals or things of that nature. I do like how you are just throwing shit at a wall to see what sticks though. complain that they are forcing pvp then complain that it wont happen enough.
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  16. #16
    No flying has nothing to do with wpvp. Not why that decision was made. It was made so you couldn't hover over quest areas and wait for the mobs to move to collect an item. (Which, for how the daily quests work in WoD would be an issue)

    Whether you agree with that or not is a personal opinion, but at least understand why and why not the decision wasn't made.
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  17. #17
    Legendary! Tommo's Avatar
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    I see it more as, they are allowing it to happen. They done everything in their power to kill WPvP over the years, so its only just that they at least give it a chance to recover.

    However they need to address the power disparity, we shouldnt be running around with 1 million hp and nuking lvl 60's because we have an extra 30 fucking levels on them. Its totally out of order, I should be at a severe disadvantage when fighting a lvl 90 on my lvl 80, but not an impossible disadvantage.

    Also gear needs to be addressed, which is largely the same as my point above, the power spikes are ridiculous.
    Last edited by Tommo; 2014-08-13 at 04:59 PM.

  18. #18
    The Insane Slowpoke is a Gamer's Avatar
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    They do this every expansion.

    Remember when they claimed that putting the Shrines within spitting distance of each other in a zone full of dailies would encourage World PVP? When Karasang was designed to evoke the spirit of Old AV? The PvP dailies on the Isle of Thunder?

    It never works, though. Players will always ignore each other if given the option. Even on PvP servers, your odds of actually fighting that other guy hangs more on if YOU'RE willing to strike first than if he jumps you.

    Well, unless the other guy is 30 levels over you....
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  19. #19
    its the mentality of the players that needs to change and by FORCING people to pvp in ashran hopefully people will start to enjoy it

  20. #20
    Herald of the Titans Anzaman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hav0kk View Post
    and by FORCING people to pvp in ashran hopefully people will start to enjoy it
    Who's forcing players into Ashran (PvP)?
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