Yes - I would've liked to have found out playing the expansion
No - with no major bad guys at launch, I wouldn't have stayed
Garrosh is a bad guy? When did that happen?
It wasn't because people whined about knowing, they actually revealed it at the same Blizzcon that they announced Mists of Pandaria. IIRC, someone just straight up asked "Who's the last boss?" at a Q&A and they were just like "Oh, it's Garrosh".
I think it depends on the context of it. Garrosh was always going to be a bad guy, you could tell that early on. As MoP didn't have a real bad guy fronting it, they had to announce Garrosh or people would wonder to what end they were doing things. It would just be 'well you're just in Pandaria, helping out', which while fun, is an underwhelming story arc.
You need some sort of focus, something to look towards in order to keep going I think, but it's important not to say too much. I think there were a lot of cool revelations throughout the course of the expansion that made up for us knowing that Garrosh would be the final boss.
Would've been better had they not told us, even back then I kinda felt bad about having it spoilered, but to be fair, people were freaking out about the "no endboss" thing.
I'm not sure exactly what he did in Wrath...Butting heads with Varian? His distrust of anything not Horde? Unless we're talking about his bout with Thrall, then you should also recall it's how "old Horde" worked. If someone was displeased with the Warchief they could challenge, he did. Cairne did the same thing and lost. Although foul play was involved with out anyone knowing about it.
It's the thing people don't get is you're mixing two cultures that clash. You pretty much had Garrosh's Horde vs Thrall's Horde. Garrosh's view on the Horde is that of what we've seen with WC1 and 2. While Thrall's was attempting to take Orc culture and make it into similar to his personality. You have to remember, Thrall was raised by humans, not Orcs, and let alone he's incredibly young and never witnessed how things "used to be".
If people hate this type of theme similar to Garrosh, well guess what? Going to be running into loads more of it with WoD.
I think it was a marketing ploy to reveal it so early and it came at the expense of the overall flow of the story. Bad move.
Show respect even to people who don't deserve it; Not as a reflection of their character, but of yours.
"Oh, hey. By the way, some Blood Elves were doing stuff they shouldn't have and, well... Yeah. Kil'jaeden's coming to town! You should probably stop that, or something."
Yeah, I thought telling everyone from the go was a pretty poor choice. It made me not care about any of the actions my character made on the road there, because I knew I would wind up betraying him anyway (against my will.) There is no need for players to always know exactly who the final villain is going to be. Sometimes, they could actually have an interesting plot with suspense and surprises...
The MoP/Garrosh story was so bad nothing could make it worse. So i don't think them telling us had any impact.
It really took the juice out of the story's nuts, I have to be honest. I felt like it was over before it began.
"Oh. Okay, then. Wake me up at Orgrimmar."
With TBC / WOTLK / Cata, we knew who we were building up to, but we didn't know how we'd get there or how we'd defeat something so powerful. With Garrosh, it was like: "Okay, we know exactly how we're getting there and we're going to bust in and beat him up because he's just an orc on steroids."
He didn't have the ominous villain power of Arthas or Deathwing, so promising him as the 'reward' at the end of the expansion just felt hugely deflating. It's not great when your motivation for working through an entire expansion is to delete a misfiring faction leader because they're so bad and annoying that players feel excited/relieved just to know they're finally getting rid of him.
The idea itself isn't bad (taking down a corrupt leader), don't get me wrong, but it wasn't approached well IMO.
Last edited by Lovestar; 2014-02-16 at 12:54 AM.
I think it's kind of lame, but good that they did.
Just think of all the QQ that would have happened when 4.3 was announced:
"OMG, ANOTHER rehashed raid? GG Blizz u suck, not learnding from DS, RAEGE!"
"Stupid ally-favoring Blizz, of course they'd make horde final boss, because Blizard loves alliance pussies so much, RAEGE!"
and so on and so forth...
“Do not lose time on daily trivialities. Do not dwell on petty detail. For all of these things melt away and drift apart within the obscure traffic of time. Live well and live broadly. You are alive and living now. Now is the envy of all of the dead.” ~ Emily III, World of Tomorrow
Flat out in the book Tides of War you read how he starts becoming a tyrant and how his methods begin to change such as the use of dark shaman. We would have had the first hand experience of watching him go off the deep end after he led the assault on Theramore forcing the elements to attack, all to just drop a bomb on it. When Baine witnesses it you get the feeling, even being a Horde character, that your leader just killed a bunch of innocent people.
They missed such a great opportunity with that scenario on both sides, and I think that would have given more of a drive to say "yeah he needs to go".
But yes, announcing Garrosh as the end boss is kind of lame, IMO.
EDIT: Sorry, not T7, T6.5 or whatever you want to call it. The SWP sets.
Last edited by Denkou; 2014-02-16 at 01:32 AM.
With the reveal happening so early, nothing felt like build-up since we already knew how it ends; it felt like a checklist. "Oh, okay, 5.1, Garrosh becomes slightly eviller, check, we know where this is going."
It kinda took half the fun out of the reveal, given that we all knew and we were expecting the org raid the entire xpac. I like that we don't really have any idea about the "ultimate mastermind" of WoD and so we do get to find out as the story develops.
I don't really understand all the moaning and complaining about the lack of a marquee villain. Outside of the Lich King, due to his unresolved story threads from Warcraft 3 (Which makes it fair to join WoW to fought and end him and thus fully resolve the last part of WC3s storyline)...I can'ty really think of any villain that would draw people to play wow JUST for the chance to fight them *shrugs*
You must show no mercy, Nor have any belief whatsoever in how others judge you: For your greatness will silence them all!
So even though no one knew who he was, "IT'S A GIANT BLACK DRAGON EATING YOUR CITIES" is enough for most RPG players to just go "Okay! Gotta die!"
Illidan/Arthas had major WC3 precedence and a close resonance with preexisting lore from Nilla, as well as just being obvious badasses/dangerous madmen.
Garrosh lacked any kind of visceral response — "It's a corrupt leader misusing resources, inflicting prejudiced social policies on the common person, committing war crimes, ..." only gets people riled up at-a-glance if they're, like, college students. I mean it's a much more interesting story than "KILLIN' YOUR PLANET!" yet again, but it's not very cinematic or pulpy, which is what Warcraft excels at. Oddly cerebral, tbh.
So, it needed much better build-up to make it feel 'important' / 'epic' to the average story participant. The way they did it was like opening the movie with a title card "IT'S HIS SLED." and then assuring you "The story's really good though, so stick around!"
Well... yeah... maybe, but... it's his sled.
I think it was a bit of a neccisary evil. I love MoP but the announcement trailer was AWEFUL. People needed to be assured that this was going somewhere. It woudl have been better for those of us that would have played anyway if they hadn't, but considering the amount of 'stupid kung fu pandas' we get even today I think it may have been neccisary damage control.
Deathwing was in WC2. He did some pretty awful things, such as attempting to manipulate the Alliance and in WC2 how he captured Alexstraza and gave her to the Horde to force her into making babies. Let alone his trouble making children Nef and Ony. It's just one of those situations where he popped up and decided to say hello to world again after getting his butt kicked by the aspects and running away. Let alone when you fly around screwing up the world and you're kind of taunting people after you kicked down their sand castle, yeah people are going to retaliate.
Illidan I always found INCREDIBLY lack luster. Just so much missed with him it felt, but hey if the whole hints that they plan on bringing him back some how is true I'll be down. For Arthas, his whole "Batman Villian" thing was sometimes hilarious, but truly felt the most engaging even if we didn't really get to see an epic battle between Ashbringer and Frostmourne. But yeah, they were pretty big antagonist to WC3.
I agree with Garrosh though. As I said, I really wish they'd have done better with Theramore. It would have been that "wait did he just do that?" I also liked that for a change it wasn't someone wanting to blow up the damn world and just wanted to own it. I truly feel as Blizzard was trying to do their "power corrupts" type character. Similar to Arthas and Illidan, who in a nut shell had good intentions, just came at them all wrong. (When I say good intentions, Garrosh WAS truly looking out for the Horde, but his war like mentality and control over territory had the other leaders disprove of him. Which in turn is where I think his bigotry started stemming from was because they didn't support his views and his rule.)
I think they had a great opportunity to develop him, and honestly I do like him, but they seemed to not even take the time to build up the character besides in the books, which I guess Wolfheart was his turning point when Varian got his shit together and defeated Garrosh in Ashenvale.
IMO they should have built up the evil of the Sha in Pandaria and hinted toward the final death of an old god. More or less since it ties into Garrosh at the end it wouldn't have been bad and almost had a twist feel to it as Garrosh was the final act of MoP.