View Poll Results: What is the probability that the Tinker can be the next class ( IYO)

Voters
1260. You may not vote on this poll
  • 0%

    660 52.38%
  • 0-10%

    189 15.00%
  • 10-20%

    58 4.60%
  • 20-30%

    51 4.05%
  • 30-40%

    30 2.38%
  • 40-50%

    58 4.60%
  • 50-60%

    48 3.81%
  • 60-70%

    34 2.70%
  • 70-80%

    38 3.02%
  • 80-90%

    25 1.98%
  • 90-100%

    69 5.48%
  1. #2341
    Quote Originally Posted by Beshou View Post
    They've been resolved in your mind. Myself and the above posters happen to agree with Ielenia.
    Speak for yourself bud.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by hrugner View Post
    The only reason the factory comes up as being a factory for making robots is Teriz trying to show that none of the tinker's WC3 abilities are taken and that they needto be in the game, and that they are on the same level of fantasy as other WoW abilities.

    Some small robot teleporter, or robots being created from leftover junk parts from the tinker's other creations are pretty cool and very workable ideas, being both smaller scale and less absurd. The class ends up being a lot more manageable with small changes like that, but it ruins Teriz's heartheld belief that tinkers need to be the next class added, this time for sure. A conversation about how to make tinkers cool, interesting, and suited to the setting would be entirely different from this one of ensuring that tinkers are next up or more likely than some other class.
    Why is that a conversation that needs to be had? People already think the Tinker is cool. Interesting, and suited for the setting. If it wasn't, it wouldn't be in WC3 in the first place, and it wouldn't be in HotS. Clearly its cool, interesting, and fitting for the setting for Blizzard, so what's the problem?

  2. #2342
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Only if you ignore everything else going on around that hole with the swirling energy.
    Which are easily ignored because those bars are thin enough and the overall structure is easy to see through, unlike a solid box.

    Every "issue" you've brought up has been resolved. What excuse are you going to come up with next?
    They aren't resolved. You are just ignoring them.

    Sig image by Best-Signatures.com

  3. #2343
    Elemental Lord Teriz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Beach City
    Posts
    8,778
    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    Which are easily ignored because those bars are thin enough and the overall structure is easy to see through, unlike a solid box.
    A solid box about half the size.

    They aren't resolved. You are just ignoring them.
    Such as?

  4. #2344
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    A solid box about half the size.
    Which would be at least 'player size'. Still too big for a thick, burly, opaque item that is supposed to appear every time during an encounter, unlike the demonic portal which is rarely really used.

    Such as?
    Selective reading much? All the issues we've talked so far ever since the start of this thread. But I'll accept just the current issues, which is how a burly opaque factory would clutter and block vision for players.

    Sig image by Best-Signatures.com

  5. #2345
    Elemental Lord Teriz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Beach City
    Posts
    8,778
    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    Which would be at least 'player size'. Still too big for a thick, burly, opaque item that is supposed to appear every time during an encounter, unlike the demonic portal which is rarely really used.
    Then make it about as large as a crate or a guild chest, or as big as a Abandoned Blackwash Crate. Problem solved.

    Selective reading much? All the issues we've talked so far ever since the start of this thread. But I'll accept just the current issues, which is how a burly opaque factory would clutter and block vision for players.
    Its truly amazing how the Tinker is the only class concept with the potential to block player's vision.
    Last edited by Teriz; 2014-03-21 at 01:59 AM.

  6. #2346
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Then make it about as large as a crate or a guild chest, or as big as a Abandoned Blackwash Crate. Problem solved.
    The bombs that would come out of such a thing would be just so negligible...

    Its truly amazing how the Tinker is the only class concept with the potential to block player's vision.
    Well, your tinker is, of course. Giant, metallic, 100% opaque mecha backpack with giand, metallic, 100% opaque arms dropping giant, opaque factories.... I don't need to go on, do I?

    Sig image by Best-Signatures.com

  7. #2347
    Elemental Lord Teriz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Beach City
    Posts
    8,778
    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    The bombs that would come out of such a thing would be just so negligible...
    Bombs don't come out of the factory. Robots do.


    Well, your tinker is, of course. Giant, metallic, 100% opaque mecha backpack with giand, metallic, 100% opaque arms dropping giant, opaque factories.... I don't need to go on, do I?
    Its not my Tinker, it's Blizzard's Tinker. Also none of that which you mentioned above are significant issues or problems. At least not significant enough that the art or design team couldn't work around.
    Last edited by Teriz; 2014-03-21 at 02:37 AM.

  8. #2348
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Bombs don't come out of the factory. Robots do.
    Which is even worse. What would those robots do? Chip at the mobs' toenails?

    Its not my Tinker, it's Blizzard's Tinker. Also none of that which you mentioned above are significant issues or problems. At least not significant enough that the art or design team couldn't work around.
    Nope. It's your tinker. Because Blizzard's tinker exists only on WC3. And as far as what the design team can do, I agree, but then we would not have your tinker, which would be a really big plus for me.

    Sig image by Best-Signatures.com

  9. #2349
    Elemental Lord Teriz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Beach City
    Posts
    8,778
    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    Which is even worse. What would those robots do? Chip at the mobs' toenails?
    They would do what they did in WC3; Attack the target and then explode.

    Nope. It's your tinker. Because Blizzard's tinker exists only on WC3.
    The main source of all of WoW's classes.

    Imagine that.
    Last edited by Teriz; 2014-03-21 at 03:17 AM.

  10. #2350
    Ielenia wth are you even talking about? You think Blizzard couldn't design a pocket factory large enough for decent sized robots to get through, and make it so neither the PF or the arms obstructs the player's view? Using size as a reason against Tinker implementation, has to be the worst argument against a new class concept ever.

  11. #2351
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    They would do what they did in WC3; Attack the target and then explode.
    So, bombs.

    The main source of all of WoW's classes.
    Imagine that.
    Yeah, and from where it won't ever get out of, since that tinker hero unit is not canon. Imagine that.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Rhamses View Post
    Ielenia wth are you even talking about? You think Blizzard couldn't design a pocket factory large enough for decent sized robots to get through, and make it so neither the PF or the arms obstructs the player's view? Using size as a reason against Tinker implementation, has to be the worst argument against a new class concept ever.
    Here's the thing: I don't doubt Blizzard could design a good tinker class if it really wanted to. However, Teriz's tinker idea is just simply unfeasible due to the way he idealizes this class. Look at the mecha backpack: it's easy two or even three times the size of the goblin that is using it. The reason it had that in WC3 is two fold: one, it's a joke hero; two, it was so this unit could be easily seen amidst all the units you are working with, since goblins are naturally small. Same thing for the Goblin Alchemist: riding atop an ogre so it could be easily identifiable in the battleground.

    Sig image by Best-Signatures.com

  12. #2352
    Quote Originally Posted by Rhamses View Post
    Why is that a conversation that needs to be had? People already think the Tinker is cool. Interesting, and suited for the setting. If it wasn't, it wouldn't be in WC3 in the first place, and it wouldn't be in HotS. Clearly its cool, interesting, and fitting for the setting for Blizzard, so what's the problem?
    Most conversations don't need to be had. Talking about how a tech like class would be realized in WoW could be an entertaining conversation to see what ideas came out of it. Talking semantics, or arguing about how much a priority tinkers are, or comparing their likelihood of being added to other classes is a much less interesting conversation; one that also doesn't need to be had.
    blah, new sig... something something

  13. #2353
    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    Here's the thing: I don't doubt Blizzard could design a good tinker class if it really wanted to. However, Teriz's tinker idea is just simply unfeasible due to the way he idealizes this class. Look at the mecha backpack: it's easy two or even three times the size of the goblin that is using it. The reason it had that in WC3 is two fold: one, it's a joke hero; two, it was so this unit could be easily seen amidst all the units you are working with, since goblins are naturally small. Same thing for the Goblin Alchemist: riding atop an ogre so it could be easily identifiable in the battleground.
    Problem: Backpack is too large.

    Solution: Design a mecha backpack that fits the race carrying it. Taking special notice to make sure that the pack isn't a visual obstruction.

    How is that solution unfeasible? Regardless of why it was used in WC3, the mecha backpack is a very unique mechanic that could be used to great effect in a game that sorely needs unique mechanics from a 12th class. It's like providing a mech without providing the mech. This is why I support Teriz's view that the mecha backpack would be utilized extensively throughout the class. Anything else, while thematically different, would be too similar to existing classes gameplay-wise. Gameplay is king.

    The argument that the Tinker is a joke hero is another terrible argument. It was an "April Fool's Joke" by Blizzard, but so were the Pandarens, and the Pandarens are now a race in the game.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by hrugner View Post
    Most conversations don't need to be had. Talking about how a tech like class would be realized in WoW could be an entertaining conversation to see what ideas came out of it. Talking semantics, or arguing about how much a priority tinkers are, or comparing their likelihood of being added to other classes is a much less interesting conversation; one that also doesn't need to be had.
    You didn't answer the question.

  14. #2354
    Quote Originally Posted by Rhamses View Post
    The argument that the Tinker is a joke hero is another terrible argument. It was an "April Fool's Joke" by Blizzard, but so were the Pandarens, and the Pandarens are now a race in the game.
    There's three important differences though:

    1) Enough people wanted to see pandaren/monk, more than people who want to see tinkers
    2) Pandaren Brewmaster was actually in TFT expansion from the start, not a later addition like Goblin Tinker
    3) There was a clear room for melee healer in WoW for monk class to fill, but there isn't really demand for another ranged dps and especially not for a ranged tank (that's something blue posts have said many times that they don't think ranged tanks work except for some gimmick fights).

  15. #2355
    Quote Originally Posted by fixx View Post
    There's three important differences though:

    1) Enough people wanted to see pandaren/monk, more than people who want to see tinkers
    2) Pandaren Brewmaster was actually in TFT expansion from the start, not a later addition like Goblin Tinker
    3) There was a clear room for melee healer in WoW for monk class to fill, but there isn't really demand for another ranged dps and especially not for a ranged tank (that's something blue posts have said many times that they don't think ranged tanks work except for some gimmick fights).
    1.And what are you basing this on? There's a new Tinker class thread on the official forums about every month or so. Also Tinkers entered WC3 by popular demand in the first place.

    2.The timing of the Tinker's inclusion doesn't mean a whole lot. It simply means that Blizzard came up with the idea later than other ideas. The Tinker is in HotS because it's a popular hero concept.

    3. I highly disagree. After 2 new class inclusions that were entirely melee, people want a new ranged class, or at least a class that has 1 or 2 ranged DPS specs. The beauty of the mecha backpack is that it could be used for either melee or ranged. Look at the Tinker in DOTA2 for example;



    That could be an example of a ranged mech backpack. Whereas the more traditional mech backpack with the hands could be used for tanking purposes.
    Last edited by Rhamses; 2014-03-21 at 10:40 AM.

  16. #2356
    Quote Originally Posted by Rhamses View Post
    1.And what are you basing this on?
    Before MoP expansion came out there was two classes people where asking for Pandaren Brewmaster and Demon Hunter, nobody cared about tinkers. Pretty simple to deduct from that that more people want to see pandas than tinkers.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rhamses View Post
    There's a new Tinker class thread on the official forums about every month or so.
    It doesn't count if it's the same three people over and over again like on this forum.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rhamses View Post
    2.The timing of the Tinker's inclusion doesn't mean a whole lot.
    It means everything in the context of your april fools dismissal. Pandaren Brewmaster was in WC3 intentionally from the start, tinker not.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rhamses View Post
    3. I highly disagree. After 2 new class inclusions that were entirely melee, people want a new ranged class, or at least a class that has 1 or 2 ranged DPS specs. The beauty of the mecha backpack is that it could be used for either melee or ranged.
    Highly disagree all you want, but Blizzard logic doesn't work that way "we had melee class last time so next one will be ranged". Nope. Instead they will look at what the game actually needs, and the thing is there isn't any really clearly defined empty spot left on the classes. Balance between melee, ranged, healers and tanks is pretty good at the moment (11, 12, 6, 5 respectively).

    Death Knight was added in as an experiment to see if they could build a class with three tanking and three dps specs at the same time and using two-handed weapons. And as we all know the concept failed to deliver multiple viable tank specs. Monk is in due to popular demand and melee heal spot which is something different again.
    Last edited by fixx; 2014-03-21 at 10:59 AM.

  17. #2357
    Quote Originally Posted by fixx View Post
    Before MoP expansion came out there was two classes people where asking for Pandaren Brewmaster and Demon Hunter, nobody cared about tinkers. Pretty simple to deduct from that that more people want to see pandas than tinkers.
    If you look at the poll a few threads down, Tinker's came in second only to Demon Hunters as what people wanted the next class to be. The idea that "nobody cares about Tinkers" isn't supported by evidence.

    It doesn't count if it's the same three people over and over again like on this forum.
    See above. It's a lot more than just three people.

    I understand that you dislike the concept. However, you really shouldn't spread your dislike and opinion to other people's viewpoints. Everyone has different tastes.


    It means everything in the context of your april fools dismissal. Pandaren Brewmaster was in WC3 intentionally from the start, tinker not.
    Again, that simply means that Blizzard came up with the concept later. If Blizzard thinks this concept is a joke, why are they making the Tinker one of the main Warcraft heroes in HotS alongside Arthas, Malfurion, and Illidan?

    Highly disagree all you want, but Blizzard logic doesn't work that way "we had melee class last time so next one will be ranged". Nope. Instead they will look at what the game actually needs, and the thing is there isn't any really clearly defined empty spot left on the classes. Balance between melee, ranged, healers and tanks is pretty good at the moment (11, 12, 6, 5 respectively).
    That wasn't your initial argument. Your argument was that there isn't DEMAND for a ranged class, when clearly there is. If you doubt this, make a poll. People want a new ranged class after two new melee classes. That's just common sense.

  18. #2358
    Quote Originally Posted by Rhamses View Post
    If you look at the poll a few threads down, Tinker's came in second only to Demon Hunters as what people wanted the next class to be. The idea that "nobody cares about Tinkers" isn't supported by evidence.

    See above. It's a lot more than just three people.
    Since you seem to have problems understanding what I wrote above, I'll just quote myself and add emphasis where needed. Hopefully you get it this time
    "Before MoP expansion came out there was two classes people where asking for Pandaren Brewmaster and Demon Hunter, nobody cared about tinkers. Pretty simple to deduct from that that more people want to see pandas than tinkers."

    Quote Originally Posted by Rhamses View Post
    Again, that simply means that Blizzard came up with the concept later. If Blizzard thinks this concept is a joke, why are they making the Tinker one of the main Warcraft heroes in HotS alongside Arthas, Malfurion, and Illidan?
    Maybe because Blizzard thinks that the tinker fits better into the more light-hearted game? By your logic there should also be Kerrigan as a class in WoW, right?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rhamses View Post
    That wasn't your initial argument. Your argument was that there isn't DEMAND for a ranged class, when clearly there is. People want a new ranged class after two new melee classes.
    People demand something new. They don't care what it's called or what it does, as long as there's a new class.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rhamses View Post
    If you doubt this, make a poll.
    If you think polling the vocal minority (fan/hater site like MMOC) gives any statistically viable results you should research on how to avoid (un)intentional bias in polling and how to select actually random sample of data.
    Last edited by fixx; 2014-03-21 at 11:23 AM. Reason: added about ten words to the end

  19. #2359
    Quote Originally Posted by fixx View Post
    Since you seem to have problems understanding what I wrote above, I'll just quote myself and add emphasis where needed. Hopefully you get it this time
    I got it the first time. You're still wrong. Plenty of players have wanted to see a Tinker class for several years.

    Oh, and take a chill pill, we're having a discussion, not insulting each other's parents. You're getting worked up for no reason.

    Maybe because Blizzard thinks that the tinker fits better into the more light-hearted game? By your logic there should also be Kerrigan as a class in WoW, right?
    The Tinker is part of the Warcraft universe. Kerrigan isn't part of the Warcraft universe. Terrible straw man argument right there my friend.

    People demand something new. They don't care what it's called or what it does, as long as there's a new class.
    False. People don't want something new if it's not truly new. Read any new class thread on this forum or on the official forums. The main complaints against any concept is that it's too similar to existing classes. WoW players aren't drooling idiots, they want as much new and fresh content as possible. Blizzard acknowledges this as well, and their previous two class inclusions back that up.



    If you think polling the vocal minority (fan/hater site like MMOC) gives any statistically viable results you should research on how to avoid (un)intentional bias in polling and how to select actually random sample of data.
    Biased or not, that poll would give you some evidence to fall back on. All you have right now is your personal opinion, which clearly errs on the side of an irrational distaste for the Tinker concept.

  20. #2360
    Quote Originally Posted by Rhamses View Post
    Problem: Backpack is too large.
    Solution: Design a mecha backpack that fits the race carrying it. Taking special notice to make sure that the pack isn't a visual obstruction.
    How is that solution unfeasible?
    Remember this: it must also have rocket launchers, be able to create big structures that will build walking bombs, and then completely wrap around the wearer to become some sort of mech.

    The argument that the Tinker is a joke hero is another terrible argument. It was an "April Fool's Joke" by Blizzard, but so were the Pandarens, and the Pandarens are now a race in the game.
    "Are now" is wrong. They always were. Waaaay back in Warcraft 3. Chen participated in the founding of Orgrimmar, remember? It wasn't something added when Mists of Pandaria went live, no. It was canon from before WoW even went into Alpha.

    Sig image by Best-Signatures.com

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •