View Poll Results: What is the probability that the Tinker can be the next class ( IYO)

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    660 52.38%
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    58 4.60%
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    51 4.05%
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    30 2.38%
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    48 3.81%
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    34 2.70%
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  1. #2381
    Elemental Lord Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    Yes, you did. Many times I told you that HotS is not connected in any in-game way to WoW, yet you kept saying that those two game are in-game connected to draw your Tinker idea from it. You need to start keeping your pseudo-facts straight, it's getting too easy to counter your 'facts' with your own, other 'facts'. Remember to re-read your older posts before you try to post more pseudo-facts.
    LoL!

    Saying that a game is connected isn't the same thing as saying that the game is cannon lore. You understand that right?


    What? I'm not one reaching to games and series unconnected to WoW to try to argue viability of my ideas.
    Oh boy.....

    HotS is connected to WoW. How? It uses Warcraft characters, their themes, and their abilities. Just like Hearthstone is connected to WoW, the WoW comic book was connected to WoW, and the WoW TCG was connected to WoW.

    None of them are lore.

  2. #2382
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    That's nice. Too bad Wowhead is a better authority than whatever site you pulled that from.
    WC3 try following the story




    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Which isn't what I said. I said that all things demon goes to Warlocks, and since Illidan is a demon, his abilities and attributes are pulled into the Warlock class by default.
    And all things tech go to engineering so the tinkers abilities are pulled into engineering by default.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    HotS is connected to WoW. How? It uses Warcraft characters, their themes, and their abilities. Just like Hearthstone is connected to WoW, the WoW comic book was connected to WoW, and the WoW TCG was connected to WoW.

    None of them are lore.


    Can't wait for Blood elf Tyrande Whisperwind, Druid Illidan, Diablo, Lumber jack Uther, kerrigan to all be in wow

    since hots = wow

  3. #2383
    Elemental Lord Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hatecore View Post
    WC3 try following the story
    I have. Doesn't change the fact that Illidan is a demon at Black Temple, which is why Warlocks got metamorphosis in the first place.


    And all things tech go to engineering so the tinkers abilities are pulled into engineering by default.
    Then please link me to the Tinker's abilities within Engineering.

    Can't wait for Blood elf Tyrande Whisperwind, Druid Illidan, Diablo, Lumber jack Uther, kerrigan to all be in wow

    since hots = wow
    Nice straw man.

  4. #2384
    oh and from HOTS the "tinker"


    "Time is money, friends", a saying all goblins live by and Gazlowe is no exception, or is he?

    As a youngster, Gazlowe was a thief but managed to make enough coin through his adventures to start his own legitimate business. A business which boomed into one of the world’s most successful trading ports. Gazlowe manages the trading operations on Kalimdor in the town of Ratchet.

    After the events of the Third War, Gazlowe was approached by Thrall to be the Chief Engineer in the building of Orgrimmar. He was tasked with finding a reliable water source in the dry, harsh climate of Durotar. Digging tunnels outside the city in search of an underground well, Gazlowe and his team ran into a den of kobolds, who flooded the tunnels and drove the goblin miners out. Gazlowe sent, not yet champion of the Horde, Rexxar to deal with the nuisance. Rexxar succeeded, and thus the glorious city of Orgrimmar had fresh water and plumbing.

    Years and profits went on without much trouble. There was the occasional 99-Year Old Port stolen by Mad Magglish and pesky pirates to the south but nothing questing adventurers couldn't handle. It wasn't until upset fire elementals laid blaze to Orgrimmar that Gazlowe was again asked by Thrall to rebuild the city. Settling on a price, which was lowered several times, the former Warchief departed for Outland.

    Following the death of the beloved Cairne Bloodhoof, the treacherous Grimtotem tribe rose up to take control of the tauren city, Thunder Bluff. Cairne's son, Baine, sent a trusted ally named Stormsong to ask Gazlowe for aid in their fight to take back the city. The plan called for outrageous amounts of explosives and weaponry, as well as zeppelins to transport troops. Demands were met and Gazlowe received an enormous sum of money and, very, very rare of a goblin, he gave most of it back as a gesture of respect to Cairne and his son. Gazlowe is keen to remain neutral for profits sake, but retains strong relations with the Horde.

  5. #2385
    Tinkers would be awesome..

  6. #2386
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    In your opinion.
    Ok, then share your opinion with us. What of Illidan's abilities in HotS are more whymsical than the Gazzlowe hero unit?

    So you're saying that there's no way blizzard art team can design a hammer tank that won't obstruct your view?
    We're saying there's no way Blizzard can design your 'mecha backpack' without severely obstructing player's view.

    I'd love to see some evidence, since there's plenty examples of effects and abilities that emanate from the back of a character.
    Dozens of pictures were posted here already. You apparently failed to see each and every one of them.

    [url]http://wowhead.com/npc=22917[url]
    Is Wowhead making shit up?
    Heck, even HotS says that he's a demon.
    I'm sorry, where does it say in that link that he's a demon? All I see is that he's a 'boss'. Care to show us where he's called a 'demon', please?

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  7. #2387
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    I have. Doesn't change the fact that Illidan is a demon at Black Temple, which is why Warlocks got metamorphosis in the first place.

    No,
    Ritssyn kicked his boots upon the table and snickered. "And just who would do this? You?" he spat. "I think not. You haven't been seen in battle since the siege of the Black Temple. If it weren't for having shared the secrets of Illidan's transformation with this council, I would kill you just for having the audacity of summoning me."
    Lore wise they stole the spell, the same with spells from fire lands, bot, DS etc.


    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Then please link me to the Tinker's abilities within Engineering.
    http://www.wowhead.com/spell=3955
    http://www.wowhead.com/item=77530
    http://www.wowhead.com/item=95416
    http://www.wowhead.com/search?q=tinker%27s+gear
    http://www.wowhead.com/item=77589
    http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...1#post25971370


    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Nice straw man.

    Do you know what a straw man is? You said HOTS was cannon to wow. I proved how it was not

  8. #2388
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    LoL!
    Saying that a game is connected isn't the same thing as saying that the game is cannon lore. You understand that right?
    Yes, it is. Otherwise we can say that 'Yogi the Bear' cartoons are connected to WoW because it has humans and talking bears.

    Oh boy.....
    HotS is connected to WoW. How? It uses Warcraft characters, their themes, and their abilities. Just like Hearthstone is connected to WoW, the WoW comic book was connected to WoW, and the WoW TCG was connected to WoW.
    None of them are lore.
    It is not. It draws inspiration and some of their characters from WoW, just like Hearthstone draws inpiration from WoW, but they're not in-game connected. At all.

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  9. #2389
    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    It is not. It draws inspiration and some of their characters from WoW, just like Hearthstone draws inpiration from WoW, but they're not in-game connected. At all.

    ^this

    hell


    Heroes of the Storm starts off with a light-hearted tone and never lets up. The story begins with StarCraft hero Jim Raynor getting sucked up into the "Nexus," where he's introduced to Warcraft's Uther the Lightbringer. After a few "Nexus? What is this a Protoss joint?" jokes, Uther shows Raynor the ropes of how to move in a MOBA, point-and-click style.

    What I love most about the tutorial is that it's perfectly paced, and doesn't let up on the corny jokes. "Diablo, we've been over this a million times. You can't taste fear!" Slowly but surely you'll learn how to use each of your hero powers (more on that later), as well as the concept of cores, towers, and minions. Just like any standard MOBA there are three lanes, with "checkpoints" of towers and gates to clear out, with waves of minions pouring through each lane to destroy and push. The beauty of Storm's formula though is that it trims out a lot of the fat in favor of a more action-oriented experience.

  10. #2390
    after playing WC3 last night. yeah tinkers wouldnt work in WoW. maybe as NPCs but not as a class.

  11. #2391
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    In your opinion.
    You think Illidan is whimsically designed? You sure have a strange opinion when you think Gazlowe is not whimsical yet Illidan is. But your opinion is your own, no matter how bizarre it may be.

  12. #2392
    Quote Originally Posted by hrugner View Post
    If filling item gaps was a valid avenue for discussion, wouldn't wand use be a priority? Every other weapon is used as more than a stat stick by some class. Item use gaps probably aren't a big issue when deciding on what class to make.
    Wands do not constitute an itemization gap, since they are both equippable and are commonly equipped as a primary weapon by 9 of the game's 33 specs. You're describing a gameplay niche, or a type of mechanic that is currently unused or underutilized. This particular niche used to be filled as well, by all three cloth classes, but stopped being so when mana mechanics changed to make it much more difficult to run out of mana and have nothing left to use but a wand. Now it's conceivable that Blizzard could introduce a class that brings the wand autoattack back as a major damage source, but this would not be filling an itemization gap. Indeed it would have its own inherent itemization problems, because like rogues the class would be reliant on the drop rate of one type of item, with no real fallbacks.

    This is not an issue which a class that could use, say, guns and crossbows would share.

    I do agree that it's probably not the major concern or the starting point of any discussion regarding which class is next when they do their brainstorming sessions, but I also think it is something that they think about. Balancing gear drop rates is historically a recurring concern which they have talked about numerous times, and they know that nobody likes it when the second gun drops and the group's only hunter doesn't want it. Much less the tenth.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dudeness View Post
    Tinkers would be awesome..
    They would tie the character creation screen together, would they not?

  13. #2393
    Quote Originally Posted by Drilnos View Post
    They would tie the character creation screen together, would they not?
    What do you mean by that? I think the Character Creation screen looks fine as it is. I don't get what kind 'tying' it needs.

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  14. #2394
    i think teriz is ignoring the fact that tinkers use the mechanical arms to quickly mass produce the bombs, rockets, etc. it would have to be a unique item slot only for tinkers. which wont happen.

    tinkers wont happen as a class

  15. #2395
    Quote Originally Posted by Drilnos View Post
    Wands do not constitute an itemization gap, since they are both equippable and are commonly equipped as a primary weapon by 9 of the game's 33 specs. You're describing a gameplay niche, or a type of mechanic that is currently unused or underutilized. This particular niche used to be filled as well, by all three cloth classes, but stopped being so when mana mechanics changed to make it much more difficult to run out of mana and have nothing left to use but a wand. Now it's conceivable that Blizzard could introduce a class that brings the wand autoattack back as a major damage source, but this would not be filling an itemization gap. Indeed it would have its own inherent itemization problems, because like rogues the class would be reliant on the drop rate of one type of item, with no real fallbacks.

    This is not an issue which a class that could use, say, guns and crossbows would share.

    I do agree that it's probably not the major concern or the starting point of any discussion regarding which class is next when they do their brainstorming sessions, but I also think it is something that they think about. Balancing gear drop rates is historically a recurring concern which they have talked about numerous times, and they know that nobody likes it when the second gun drops and the group's only hunter doesn't want it. Much less the tenth.



    They would tie the character creation screen together, would they not?
    I was more pointing out that, as you say, itemization balance isn't that big a deal and basing much off of it is pretty goofy. Drops can be balanced on drop side of gameplay as easily as the usage side. When people bring up mail use as a selling point it's less compelling an argument than back in original WoW since the pool size for mail is large enough not to be an issue; not as bad as the int plate or int mail concerns that will be resolved in WoD at any rate.

    That aside, wand usage as a mechanic wouldn't need to face the same problems as daggers, since you could expand the hypothetical wand using class to any sort of ranged item, letting a wand be uniquely used as their autoattack without being their only option.

    Also, forced dagger for rogue sucks. Such an awful design decision.

    No, I have no idea what kind of class that would be (some sort of conjurer class? transmuting whatever ammunition into something larger or more potent?). Hypothetical and bordering on going off topic, probably best left alone.
    blah, new sig... something something

  16. #2396
    Elemental Lord Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    Ok, then share your opinion with us. What of Illidan's abilities in HotS are more whymsical than the Gazzlowe hero unit?
    Viewing Gazlowe's abilities as whimsical is an opinion.


    We're saying there's no way Blizzard can design your 'mecha backpack' without severely obstructing player's view.
    Which is a pretty ridiculous argument, because Blizzard would be designing their mecha backpack regardless.


    Dozens of pictures were posted here already. You apparently failed to see each and every one of them
    None of which proves that blizzard can't design a backpack that doesn't obscure your view.

    I'm sorry, where does it say in that link that he's a demon? All I see is that he's a 'boss'. Care to show us where he's called a 'demon', please?
    You mean besides on the top where it says database, NPCs, Demons?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hatecore View Post
    Lore wise they stole the spell, the same with spells from fire lands, bot, DS etc.
    Wonderful. Now please tell us why Blizzard gave the spell to Warlocks.

    None of those are Tinker abilities. Heck, they're not even abilities. They're items.

    Do you know what a straw man is? You said HOTS was cannon to wow. I proved how it was not
    Where did I say that HotS was cannon lore?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    Yes, it is. Otherwise we can say that 'Yogi the Bear' cartoons are connected to WoW because it has humans and talking bears.
    If Yogi Bear was owned by Blizzard and appeared in WoW, you'd have a point.

    It is not. It draws inspiration and some of their characters from WoW, just like Hearthstone draws inpiration from WoW, but they're not in-game connected. At all.
    There's a difference between drawing inspiration, and using the actual characters and abilities from the Warcraft franchise. However, its important to note that if you draw inspiration from something, you're also forming a connection with the source material.
    Last edited by Teriz; 2014-03-21 at 10:24 PM.

  17. #2397
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Viewing Gazlowe's abilities as whimsical is an opinion.
    I don't see how can someone look at its abilities and not think they're whymsical.

    Which is a pretty ridiculous argument, because Blizzard would be designing their mecha backpack regardless.
    If Blizzard makes a 'mecha backpack', which chances are pretty slim, it won't be anything like you envision it. At best, will be a cooldown, and be much smaller than you envision it.

    None of which proves that blizzard can't design a backpack that doesn't obscure your view.
    Irrelevant. We're not talking about Blizzard making a backpack. We're talking about your backpack you insist must exist as big as it is and be showing 24/7.

    Where did I say that HotS was cannon lore?
    Every time you argued Gazlowe is a Tinker because of its 'Heroes of the Storm' incarnation.

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  18. #2398
    Elemental Lord Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thimagryn View Post
    You think Illidan is whimsically designed? You sure have a strange opinion when you think Gazlowe is not whimsical yet Illidan is. But your opinion is your own, no matter how bizarre it may be.
    Thanks for putting words in my mouth. I never said any of that. What I'm saying is that viewing anything as whimsical is a matter of personal opinion.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    I don't see how can someone look at its abilities and not think they're whymsical.
    People have different opinions and tastes. Imagine that.

    If Blizzard makes a 'mecha backpack', which chances are pretty slim, it won't be anything like you envision it. At best, will be a cooldown, and be much smaller than you envision it.
    And you're basing that on what exactly?


    Irrelevant. We're not talking about Blizzard making a backpack. We're talking about your backpack you insist must exist as big as it is and be showing 24/7.
    And what's "my" backpack? The backpack that Blizzard designed already and could easily redesign?

    Every time you argued Gazlowe is a Tinker because of its 'Heroes of the Storm' incarnation.
    Arguing that Blizzard views Gazlowe as a Tinker isn't the same as saying that HotS is cannon lore.

  19. #2399
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    And you're basing that on what exactly?
    Every single post of yours where we talk about how burly and cluttering said backpack would be.

    And what's "my" backpack? The backpack that Blizzard designed already and could easily redesign?
    A backpack Blizzard designed for a different game, not WoW, which was made solely to make the Hero unit stand out from amidst the dozens of other units since goblins are naturally small.

    Arguing that Blizzard views Gazlowe as a Tinker isn't the same as saying that HotS is cannon lore.
    Blizzard 'views' Gazlowe as a Tinker for HotS, not in WoW. After all, he has no mecha backpack back in Ratchet. For that same reason, Blizzard thinks Illidan is a druid in that game as well. Also, Blizzard also thinks that Uther wears Terran Medic Power Armor, too.

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  20. #2400
    Elemental Lord Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    Every single post of yours where we talk about how burly and cluttering said backpack would be.
    Which is based on personal opinion. The backpack could just as easily be sleek and compact.

    A backpack Blizzard designed for a different game, not WoW, which was made solely to make the Hero unit stand out from amidst the dozens of other units since goblins are naturally small.
    And nothing prevents Blizzard from taking that concept and making it fit into a MMORPG game since the hammer tank concept provides a potentially unique gameplay experience, and allows Tinkers to stand out from existing classes. Two things Blizzard considers very important in class design.

    Blizzard 'views' Gazlowe as a Tinker for HotS, not in WoW. After all, he has no mecha backpack back in Ratchet.
    Not yet.

    For that same reason, Blizzard thinks Illidan is a druid in that game as well. Also, Blizzard also thinks that Uther wears Terran Medic Power Armor, too.
    Those are alternate skins, not the base skins. Also Gazlowe is a Tinker throughout HotS. Bad comparison is bad.
    Last edited by Teriz; 2014-03-21 at 10:39 PM.

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