View Poll Results: What is the probability that the Tinker can be the next class ( IYO)

Voters
1260. You may not vote on this poll
  • 0%

    660 52.38%
  • 0-10%

    189 15.00%
  • 10-20%

    58 4.60%
  • 20-30%

    51 4.05%
  • 30-40%

    30 2.38%
  • 40-50%

    58 4.60%
  • 50-60%

    48 3.81%
  • 60-70%

    34 2.70%
  • 70-80%

    38 3.02%
  • 80-90%

    25 1.98%
  • 90-100%

    69 5.48%
  1. #361
    Ugh...

    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Items are not abilities genius.
    Thanks to their engineering profession, they have the ability to create wondrous technological gadgets.

    However the profession creates items that they can sell. Classes do not.
    Game mechanics aside, from an entirely lore-wise and world-setting viewpoint, what stops your Tinkers from selling the items they create for profit?

    Or it's simply a game mechanic that doesn't require that much thought. Just like a Tinker having tons of machinery for combat.
    For the last time. Stop arguing game mechanics. We're talking lore and world setting. And how do you think your 'tinker' got all those 'tons of machinery' for combat? It just didn't spontaneously assembled itself from nothing in the tinker's hands, y'know?

    That you proved my point. The only reason all them are different is because they all have different abilities from each other. Which is expressed by the adjectives you placed in front of "magic caster". Just like the Engineering Profession, Mekgineer, Siegecrafter, and Tinker. If they had the same abilities, then all of those fancy names would just be titles.
    Proves nothing. 'Magic' is as broad a term as 'craft' is. Engineering is one type of craft. Technology craft. Which is the whole basis for 'tinkers'.

    Doubtful, since the only Pandaren from the Wandering Isle arrived in Ogrimmar and Stormwind. There's Monk trainers everywhere.
    Just because you didn't see them arrive later or earler does not mean that didn't happen, you know?

    The Paladin class (and almost every other class) proves it does.
    Just because you say so? Doubt it.

    I'd say that's a whole lot of crap because you have nothing to counter the facts.
    All I have to 'counter' that is the fact that you said your Tinker doesn't craft anything, and the fact that there is no store in the whole of Azeroth that sells sawblades, powerful bombs, and 'claw tanks'.

    Just like a title doesn't make one magic user different than another right?
    I'll repeat: 'Magic' is as broad a term as 'craft' is. Engineering is one type of craft. Technology craft. Which is the whole basis for 'tinkers'.

    Except I don't need to convince anyone. The facts are the facts.
    And all facts go against you and your idea, my friend. You're the only one that thinks otherwise. The only one.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Oh, and BTW: I checked Uther the Lightbringer's abilities on Nexus:

    Holy Light does not damage enemies in WoW;
    Holy Radiance does not damage enemies and heal friends in a line in WoW;
    Hammer of Justice does not do damage in WoW;
    Divine Shield does not increase movement speed and cannot be cast on others in WoW;
    Divine Storm does not stun enemies in WoW.

    With all that, I bid you good night.

  2. #362
    I personally think anyone that votes 0% is being naive. They have gone back on so many "nevers" that I don't think there is 0% of anything they do.

    That said, I don't see the tinker actually happening, so I voted 0-10% :-P

  3. #363
    Elemental Lord Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    Ugh...


    Thanks to their engineering profession, they have the ability to create wondrous technological gadgets.
    An ability that wouldn't be shared by a class.

    Game mechanics aside, from an entirely lore-wise and world-setting viewpoint, what stops your Tinkers from selling the items they create for profit?
    Game mechanics is the only thing that matters, because a class can't sell its abilities, and classes don't craft items that they can sell. So it's an irrelevant and pointless argument.


    For the last time. Stop arguing game mechanics. We're talking lore and world setting. And how do you think your 'tinker' got all those 'tons of machinery' for combat? It just didn't spontaneously assembled itself from nothing in the tinker's hands, y'know?
    No, we're talking classes, and classes are nothing but game mechanics.


    Proves nothing. 'Magic' is as broad a term as 'craft' is. Engineering is one type of craft. Technology craft. Which is the whole basis for 'tinkers'.
    Actually it's not, since there are also different types of technology. There's Goblin tech, Gnome tech, Iron Horde tech, Naaru tech, Titan tech, Magic-based tech and Demonic tech.

    The Engineering profession only covers Goblin and Gnome tech, and it barely covers that.


    Just because you didn't see them arrive later or earler does not mean that didn't happen, you know?
    Doubtful. More than likely the Pandaren Monk trainers were roaming the world just like Chen Stormstout did, long before the arrival of player Pandaren from the wandering isle.


    Just because you say so? Doubt it.
    Blizzard says so, since Vindicators, Blood Knights, and Suwalkers all have the same abilities, and they're all called Paladins.


    All I have to 'counter' that is the fact that you said your Tinker doesn't craft anything, and the fact that there is no store in the whole of Azeroth that sells sawblades, powerful bombs, and 'claw tanks'.
    Just like there are no stores that sell the keg and brew that allows Keg Smash. There's also no stores that sell arrows or bullets for Hunters. And there's no stores that sell the daggers that Rogues throw. In short, its a gameplay mechanic that doesn't require the amount of BS you're trying to stuff into it.

    I'll repeat: 'Magic' is as broad a term as 'craft' is. Engineering is one type of craft. Technology craft. Which is the whole basis for 'tinkers'.
    See above, Technology is just as broad as magic is.


    And all facts go against you and your idea, my friend. You're the only one that thinks otherwise. The only one.
    Whatever helps you sleep at night.

  4. #364
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Actually it's not, since there are also different types of technology. There's Goblin tech, Gnome tech, Iron Horde tech, Naaru tech, Titan tech, Magic-based tech and Demonic tech.

    The Engineering profession only covers Goblin and Gnome tech, and it barely covers that.
    Yes! That's exactly why I when someone says that a tech-class would be too much like Engineering. Blizzard could pull for any variety of tech in the game.

  5. #365
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Game mechanics is the only thing that matters.
    No, we're talking classes, and classes are nothing but game mechanics.
    No, because world setting and lore are detached from 'game mechanics'. And classes are thematic concepts adjusted by game mechanics. You assume just because game mechanics limit us, the players, in our interactions with the world of Azeroth, it means our characters would be limited as well if Azeroth were a 'real world' and not a game world.

    Actually it's not, since there are also different types of technology. There's Goblin tech, Gnome tech, Iron Horde tech, Naaru tech, Titan tech, Magic-based tech and Demonic tech.
    The Engineering profession only covers Goblin and Gnome tech, and it barely covers that.
    A few corrections: Iron Horde tech = goblin tech; Naaru tech does not exist. I haven't seen it anywhere in the game or in its lore; Titan tech cannot be comprehended by the mortal races; Azeroth's engineering has magic elements to it; Demonic tech does not exist. Those are all magic constructs.
    The engineering job encompasses all of the Goblin and Gnome of Azeroth.

    Doubtful. More than likely the Pandaren Monk trainers were roaming the world just like Chen Stormstout did, long before the arrival of player Pandaren from the wandering isle.
    Which made your initial argument completely irrelevant.

    Blizzard says so, since Vindicators, Blood Knights, and Suwalkers all have the same abilities, and they're all called Paladins.
    And so do all of the engineers of Azeroth. Gelbin, Blackfuse, Thermaplugg are all engineers with fancy titles.

    Just like there are no stores that sell the keg and brew that allows Keg Smash. There's also no stores that sell arrows or bullets for Hunters. And there's no stores that sell the daggers that Rogues throw. In short, its a gameplay mechanic that doesn't require the amount of BS you're trying to stuff into it.
    There are many stores that sell beer and all kinds of alcoholic beverages. And there were shops that sold bullets and arrows for hunters but were removed when Blizzard decided having to manage bullets and arrows were not a fun mechanic. So, technically, they still exist.

    See above, Technology is just as broad as magic is.
    Above where? Technology is a type of craft. Not as broad at all like magic.

  6. #366
    Elemental Lord Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    No, because world setting and lore are detached from 'game mechanics'. And classes are thematic concepts adjusted by game mechanics. You assume just because game mechanics limit us, the players, in our interactions with the world of Azeroth, it means our characters would be limited as well if Azeroth were a 'real world' and not a game world.
    Except Azeroth IS a game world, and the only way we interact within the world is via limiting game mechanics. We cannot assume what it would be like if it were living world because that would be nothing more than a baseless assumption. It would also be silly, since blizzard can change the game world at any time.

    Sort of like your entire argument.


    A few corrections: Iron Horde tech = goblin tech; Naaru tech does not exist. I haven't seen it anywhere in the game or in its lore; Titan tech cannot be comprehended by the mortal races; Azeroth's engineering has magic elements to it; Demonic tech does not exist. Those are all magic constructs.
    The engineering job encompasses all of the Goblin and Gnome of Azeroth.
    Iron Horde tech is quite a bit different than Goblin tech. You'll see how in the next expansion.
    Nauru tech doesn't exist? So the Exodar doesn't exist? You haven't seen the Exodar in game?
    Titan Tech still exists, even if the mortal races don't understand it.
    Demonic tech does exists. Just take a trip to Outland.

    Wrong again. What a surprise!


    Which made your initial argument completely irrelevant.
    My initial argument was that the Monk trainers came from. Pandaria.


    And so do all of the engineers of Azeroth. Gelbin, Blackfuse, Thermaplugg are all engineers with fancy titles.
    They don't have the same abilities. So like the different magic classes you listed, Blackfuse, Gelbin, and Thermaplugg all belong to different technology classes as well. Unless you can provide some abilities they share like the various types of Paladins.

    There are many stores that sell beer and all kinds of alcoholic beverages.
    But there's no place in WoW where I can buy a Keg and grant me the ability Keg Smash.

    And there were shops that sold bullets and arrows for hunters but were removed when Blizzard decided having to manage bullets and arrows were not a fun mechanic. So, technically, they still exist.
    So once again, lore gets stomped by gameplay and game mechanics. What a shocker.

    Above where? Technology is a type of craft. Not as broad at all like magic.
    I listed all the different types of tech. Have a re-read.
    Last edited by Teriz; 2014-02-21 at 05:24 AM.

  7. #367
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Except Azeroth IS a game world, and the only way we interact within the world is via limiting game mechanics. We cannot assume what it would be like if it were living world because that would be nothing more than a baseless assumption. It would also be silly, since blizzard can change the game world at any time.
    Like your arguments?

    Azeroth is a world. In that world, engineers create technology wonders. Extraordinary characters that make a name for themselves take on fancy titles. Like the engineer Helix Blackfuse calling himself 'Siegecrafter Blackfuse', or the paladin Uther calling himself 'Uther the Lightbringer', among others.

    Iron Horde tech is quite a bit different than Goblin tech. You'll see how in the next expansion. The Blackfuse company goes with Garrosh through the Portal. Gobling technology.
    Nauru tech doesn't exist? So the Exodar doesn't exist? You haven't seen the Exodar in game? Magic. I didn't see a single technology there. All crystals and magic.
    Titan Tech still exists, even if the mortal races don't understand it. Never said it doesn't exist.
    Demonic tech does exists. Just take a trip to Outland. I'll give in to that one.
    My initial argument was that the Monk trainers came from. Pandaria.
    Which has been proven wrong because they came from the Wandering Isle.

    They don't have the same abilities. So like the different magic classes you listed, Blackfuse, Gelbin, and Thermaplugg all belong to different technology classes as well. Unless you can provide some abilities they share like the various types of Paladins.
    Siegecrafter, mekginner, and the like are just titles. Only you contest that, with some convoluted senseless logic. But you know what? I'll indulge you, if you can create one class for Siegecrafter, one class for a Mekgineer. Don't need to get all fancy with pictures and big explanations. But make those classes different from each other, and of course different from the 'Tinker', since, y'know, by your logic they're not tinkers.

    But there's no place in WoW where I can buy a Keg and grant me the ability Keg Smash.
    No beer gives the ability to 'keg smash'. Monks just buy beer so they can 'keg smash'. Beer itself doesn't do that, Monks do. A bullet doesn't shoot itself. It needs a gun to do so.

    So once again, lore gets stomped by gameplay and game mechanics. What a shocker.
    Where did it get stomped? The stores are still around. They're just not available to players for simplicity's sake, but they are still there. Or what do you think hunters shoot from their guns and bows? Air? Imaginary ammo?

    I listed all the different types of tech. Have a re-read.
    Which are all handled by the same thing: engineering.

  8. #368
    Moderator Gehco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Except Azeroth IS a game world, and the only way we interact within the world is via limiting game mechanics. We cannot assume what it would be like if it were living world because that would be nothing more than a baseless assumption. It would also be silly, since blizzard can change the game world at any time.

    Sort of like your entire argument.




    Iron Horde tech is quite a bit different than Goblin tech. You'll see how in the next expansion.
    Nauru tech doesn't exist? So the Exodar doesn't exist? You haven't seen the Exodar in game?
    Titan Tech still exists, even if the mortal races don't understand it.
    Demonic tech does exists. Just take a trip to Outland.

    Wrong again. What a surprise!




    My initial argument was that the Monk trainers came from. Pandaria.




    They don't have the same abilities. So like the different magic classes you listed, Blackfuse, Gelbin, and Thermaplugg all belong to different technology classes as well. Unless you can provide some abilities they share like the various types of Paladins.



    But there's no place in WoW where I can buy a Keg and grant me the ability Keg Smash.



    So once again, lore gets stomped by gameplay and game mechanics. What a shocker.



    I listed all the different types of tech. Have a re-read.
    Ah, I have to change it a bit there on some of the tech. Just because it's a dear subject of mine, "Naaru-Tech" is changed to general "Crystal-tech" due to the fact that the Draenei use it, as well as the Blood Elves who had it before they got a hold on a Naaru. Though, really, Tinker is just hidden under various names at most but in the end, the same thing.

    A core of the tinkers union, was to explore all the techs that they could find but some they dared not to. In this example, the Mo'arg/Gan'arg (The tech of the same as the Fel Reaver). As well, the Goblins and Gnomes find themselves unable to be attuned for the Crystal-tech (Naaru-tech) as their minds does not seem to be able to calculate a full reason of it. While the Blood Elves and Draenei are able to see connections of energy waves within this tech, putting them more in their hands. You could easily have build ups, though we all know that it is the Goblin and Gnome techs that has generated the most popular factors and will still be.

    A Tinker is not a profession like Engineering, Engineers offer their service and semi-constructs to use. While a Tinker offer their knowledge, equipment and setup to the fight. A quick example is Blackfuse, kicking ass in his modified Shredder unit. You as a Tinker would use a lot of time to overall setup and select your specializing to fit your task, building your tools after so as well as bot assistance most likely.

    A Tinker would also finally mean that Blizzard would use old designs that has gone lost, or has no use. The things on the top of my head is...
    • "Fear Grenades" - [Not the actual name]A type of grenade offered via a quest once located in the Badlands (Back then, only worked on beasts, but was good Vs. Hunters)
    • "Frost Grenades" - [Not the actual name] A grenade highly used in TBC, offering as your "Oh shit" button as you play in a PvP server, throwing this, freezing the target just like a Frost Nova.
    • "Turrets" - I have not checked my list for a while, but we used to (dunno if still) to have a Fire Turret, offering good assistance within the fight.
    • "Bots" - In this case, we only have had the loss 1 one bots use. The Alarm-O-bot, this unit was once very useful as it was able to detact and call out on stealthers back in the days, offering you a more secure situation Vs. Rogues/Druids.

    And I am sure there's still a core of items that could have gotten further use instead of just being there on the list, and never more used.

    As well, was an old idea we talked about in a previous thread you had, Teriz. Their weapon, should be that of a modified basic weapon, that I think a good idea would be if the class itself modified the basic weapon to fit their specc. Of course, the basic weapon could be upgraded via loot table, and then you apply modifications to fit your specc.

    Tech Guide List:
    "Naaru-Tech" = "Crystal-Tech" (used by the Draenei and Blood Elves)
    Goblin-Tech = Used by the Goblins and Orcs generally, as well as a few Gnomes.
    Gnomish-Tech = Used by the Gnomes and a few humans, dwarves has tweaked it a little with the goblin side.
    "Demon-Tech" = "Fel Engineering" maybe? Used by the Mo'arg/Gan'arg, created Fel firing canons, the Fel Reaver and more.
    "Titan-Tech" = A state of technological progress seeming of artifacts, mixed with machinery - many has problems understanding it, but still studying.
    Iron Horde-Tech = [Could be seen as a Sub-version of Goblin tech] A brutal new design, created by twisting Goblin Tech into a new setup. Running with Blackfuse's Engine as it's background, this holds much purpose and ideas to be constructed from.
    Last edited by Gehco; 2014-02-21 at 08:50 AM.
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  9. #369
    Elemental Lord Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    Azeroth is a world. In that world, engineers create technology wonders. Extraordinary characters that make a name for themselves take on fancy titles. Like the engineer Helix Blackfuse calling himself 'Siegecrafter Blackfuse', or the paladin Uther calling himself 'Uther the Lightbringer', among others.
    The point is that the Engineering profession does not properly cover the technology throughout the gameorld.

    Siegecrafter, mekginner, and the like are just titles. Only you contest that, with some convoluted senseless logic.
    How is the logic senseless when its backed by evidence? Again, it's the abilities that make Spellcasters different. What separates the Mage and Priest since they both use magic? It's the fact that Mages have abilities based around fire, frost! and Arcane, while Priests have abilities based around Holy and Shadow.

    Why should it be any different for technology? Especially when there are different types of technology in WoW.

    No beer gives the ability to 'keg smash'. Monks just buy beer so they can 'keg smash'. Beer itself doesn't do that, Monks do. A bullet doesn't shoot itself. It needs a gun to do so.
    Again, you're putting a stupid amount of logic into an illogical concept. Its a game mechanic, nothing more, nothing less. The lore behind it doesn't make sense, because the lore is twisted for gameplay purposes. By your logic a Monk would be an alchemist crafting brews and potions for battle. However, the game mechanics don't work that way. The Monk class just conjures bottles of various drinks in battle. Just like a technology class would conjure machines for combat purposes.

    Which are all handled by the same thing: engineering.
    The only thing available to players is the Engineering profession. It doesn't cover anything.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Gehco View Post
    "Naaru-Tech" = "Crystal-Tech" (used by the Draenei and Blood Elves)
    Goblin-Tech = Used by the Goblins and Orcs generally, as well as a few Gnomes.
    Gnomish-Tech = Used by the Gnomes and a few humans, dwarves has tweaked it a little with the goblin side.
    "Demon-Tech" = "Fel Engineering" maybe? Used by the Mo'arg/Gan'arg, created Fel firing canons, the Fel Reaver and more.
    "Titan-Tech" = A state of technological progress seeming of artifacts, mixed with machinery - many has problems understanding it, but still studying.
    Iron Horde-Tech = [Could be seen as a Sub-version of Goblin tech] A brutal new design, created by twisting Goblin Tech into a new setup. Running with Blackfuse's Engine as it's background, this holds much purpose and ideas to be constructed from.
    Thanks for the more accurate tech list Gehco. Much appreciated, as was the rest of your post.

  10. #370
    I don't think you guys are talking about the same thing.

    Ielenia is talking about lore. Where s/he is correct that Engineering is the basis for all of technology in WoW.

    Teriz is talking about gameplay. Where s/he is correct that Engineering profession doesn't cover all tech in WoW.

    I think where Ielenia is being disingenuous and intellectually dishonest is the way s/he's been switching between lore and gameplay throughout their discussion. You can't have it both ways Ielenia. Either you're making an argument for lore, or you're making an argument for gameplay. You can't say that the Engineering profession is the same as what the Tinker hero did, because clearly that's not the case.

    Both the Engineering profession and the Tinker hero are performing engineering. However, the Engineering profession, and a Tinker class aren't the same thing. I think Drilnos made a similar point, but Ielenia ignored the entire post.

  11. #371
    Quote Originally Posted by Rhamses View Post
    I don't think you guys are talking about the same thing.

    Ielenia is talking about lore. Where s/he is correct that Engineering is the basis for all of technology in WoW.

    Teriz is talking about gameplay. Where s/he is correct that Engineering profession doesn't cover all tech in WoW.

    I think where Ielenia is being disingenuous and intellectually dishonest is the way s/he's been switching between lore and gameplay throughout their discussion. You can't have it both ways Ielenia. Either you're making an argument for lore, or you're making an argument for gameplay. You can't say that the Engineering profession is the same as what the Tinker hero did, because clearly that's not the case.

    Both the Engineering profession and the Tinker hero are performing engineering. However, the Engineering profession, and a Tinker class aren't the same thing. I think Drilnos made a similar point, but Ielenia ignored the entire post.
    I did. Engineering as a lore concept and engineering the profession are entirely different concepts. The first encapsulates everything engineering can do in the Warcraft universe. The second encapsulates everything engineering can do within the World of Warcraft gameplay construct known as the profession system. The profession system has limits because it is a part of a game, which is defined by limits. This means that not only does the engineering profession represent a -tiny- subset of the engineering lore concept, it is also impossible to make it represent more than that tiny subset. The schematics we can learn now are a fraction of the potential of that fraction. A Tinker class would be the engineering lore concept viewed through a different gameplay construct, the class system, and because the class system has different rules and limits it would, by definition, encapsulate a different subset of the lore concept than the profession system can.

  12. #372
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    None of that is useful for combat. Again, at level 90, I couldn't kill a level 84 Glade Porcupine with the strongest bomb in the game.
    I think you're missing their point. Which is that a lot of what you want a Tinker to do can be achieved - thematically at least - as an engineer. What thematic difference is there between a Hunter who uses guns and can access grenades through Engineering and a Tinker who uses guns and grenades?

    At the same time....there is a difference. A tech class would be built around the use and depiction of technology.

    EJL

  13. #373
    Brewmaster Caninese's Avatar
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    I'd definitely dig a Tinker class, granted I want Demon Hunter more, but I think that Tinkers are more probable when it comes to fitting the necessary slots. Mail Armor-Check, Ranged Weapons-Check, and the ability to play any role-Check. I'm just wondering what weapon types other than guns they would be able to use, especially in relation to healing specs. Bottom line though, I'd play the hell out of a Goblin and Gnome Tinker. I'm just not sure which class Blizzard will implement next. Hell, it could be something other than a Tinker or Demon Hunter.

  14. #374
    Stood in the Fire Gonder's Avatar
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    I went with 20 - 30%, though in all honesty, the Engineering profession isn't reason enough for Tinker to not become a class. I don't see why this couldn't become a thing, or how it couldn't work.

  15. #375
    Quote Originally Posted by Talen View Post
    I think you're missing their point. Which is that a lot of what you want a Tinker to do can be achieved - thematically at least - as an engineer. What thematic difference is there between a Hunter who uses guns and can access grenades through Engineering and a Tinker who uses guns and grenades?

    At the same time....there is a difference. A tech class would be built around the use and depiction of technology.

    EJL
    Usage of animal companions, tracker/survivalist motifs, and so forth. His abilities, quests, trainers, gear and so forth all evoke the hunter. A hunter with engineering is still a hunter. He still does hunter things. He can't stop doing those things and continue to be effective. But he can give up the guns and grenades any time he wants with no drawbacks.

    Thematically one can pretend to be a tinker all they want. I do. But at the end of the day, the themes that define a character, at his core, are not things that can be dropped for Leatherworking with no repercussions. It is a piss poor sort of gadgeteer genius who can up and decide to give up being a gadgeteer genius and continue on as if nothing happened.

    In short, a profession is what characters do. A class is what characters are. In terms of theme, they're a world apart, and no amount of RP is a substitute.
    Last edited by Drilnos; 2014-02-21 at 04:37 PM.

  16. #376
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    The point is that the Engineering profession does not properly cover the technology throughout the gameorld.
    It does.

    How is the logic senseless when its backed by evidence?
    What evidence? Titles are evidence of nothing, other than status, not class.
    Again, it's the abilities that make Spellcasters different. What separates the Mage and Priest since they both use magic?
    Priests = Holy magic; Mages = Arcane/fire/frost magic; Therefore Priests =/= Mages.
    Engineering = Goblin/Gnome tech; Helix Blackfuse = Goblin tech; Therefore Engineering = Blackfuse.

    Again, you're putting a stupid amount of logic into an illogical concept.
    There is nothing illogical about smashing someone's head with a bottle or keg of beer. It just doesn't make sense to you.

    By your logic a Monk would be an alchemist crafting brews and potions for battle.
    It has already been proven to you that knowing how to make one or two recipes at a distillery does not enable me to create every recipe in the world. I know how to make lasagna in the oven. It doesn't mean I know how to make Beef Wellington or a Spanish Paella.

    The only thing available to players is the Engineering profession. It doesn't cover anything.
    It does. You just refuse to see it because you're again arguing game mechanics and demanding 'very specific examples' to try to fight back.
    Last edited by Ielenia; 2014-02-21 at 05:21 PM.

  17. #377
    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    Priests = Holy magic; Mages = Arcane/fire/frost magic; Therefore Priests =/= Mages.
    Engineering = Goblin/Gnome tech; Helix Blackfuse = Goblin tech; Therefore Engineering = Blackfuse.
    .
    There's that intellectual dishonesty again. You're purposely conflating lore and game mechanics. The profession and the general ability to use technology aren't the same thing, and you know they aren't the same thing.

    It's a very poor way to debate.

  18. #378
    Quote Originally Posted by Rhamses View Post
    There's that intellectual dishonesty again. You're purposely conflating lore and game mechanics. The profession and the general ability to use technology aren't the same thing, and you know they aren't the same thing.

    It's a very poor way to debate.
    I'm not arguing game mechanics. Helix Blackfuse built those weapons of war for Garrosh. He wouldn't be able to do that if he wasn't an engineer. Anyone can use technological gadgets with varying degrees of success, but only an enginner can craft tech gadgets. And those weapons of war were built by Helix Blackfuse.

  19. #379
    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    I'm not arguing game mechanics. Helix Blackfuse built those weapons of war for Garrosh. He wouldn't be able to do that if he wasn't an engineer. Anyone can use technological gadgets with varying degrees of success, but only an enginner can craft tech gadgets. And those weapons of war were built by Helix Blackfuse.
    Okay, but you do understand that the profession is NOT the lore engineering you're talking about right?

  20. #380
    Quote Originally Posted by Drilnos View Post
    Usage of animal companions, tracker/survivalist motifs, and so forth. His abilities, quests, trainers, gear and so forth all evoke the hunter. A hunter with engineering is still a hunter. He still does hunter things. He can't stop doing those things and continue to be effective. But he can give up the guns and grenades any time he wants with no drawbacks.
    And if he wants to, he can shoot a gun and lob grenades. Leaving aside feel and viability, there simply is not a lot of difference.

    But the argument you present is why this debate is pointless. A tech class would be built around tech.

    EJL

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