View Poll Results: What is the probability that the Tinker can be the next class ( IYO)

Voters
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  • 0%

    660 52.38%
  • 0-10%

    189 15.00%
  • 10-20%

    58 4.60%
  • 20-30%

    51 4.05%
  • 30-40%

    30 2.38%
  • 40-50%

    58 4.60%
  • 50-60%

    48 3.81%
  • 60-70%

    34 2.70%
  • 70-80%

    38 3.02%
  • 80-90%

    25 1.98%
  • 90-100%

    69 5.48%
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  1. #1401
    Scarab Lord Mokoshne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FruitBat69 View Post
    It's true it's just like what I said in another thread. You can't really sell an expansion with a tinker on the box, well you could try I'm sure it would be successful but a legion themed expansion with Illidan on the box including demon hunters as playable (fuck the overlap) would sell so much more, it would be WOTLK 2.0.
    A lot of people said you couldn't use panda's as a selling point and MoP is generally considered better than Cataclysm. I do agree with you though that a tinker themed expansion, as the selling point, doesn't sound enthralling.

    More than likely though the wow addicts will pay for whatever blizzard serves up to them!
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  2. #1402
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    I posted those to counter your argument that Tinkers don't exist in WoW.
    They don't. The fact your examples are just simply engineer stuff plus even a mage proves that.

    You mean other than the Tinkers who have Mage-like spells or other bizarre abilities?
    Talking about the Venture Co. Tinkerer? That's a mage. No other way of spinning it.

    Recap:
    1.You have yet to provide any evidence that every tech-user that Rhamses mentioned is an engineer of the the engineering profession.
    2.You have been proven wrong several times in regard to Tinker existence within WoW.
    3.You have yet to provide any evidence that profession/class overlap is a problem or an issue that Blizzard cares about.
    I did. You just ignored them. Machinists are machine vehicle pilots, artisans is a synonym to crafter, etc... I just won't bother reposting everything.

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  3. #1403
    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    I did. You just ignored them. Machinists are machine vehicle pilots, artisans is a synonym to crafter, etc... I just won't bother reposting everything.
    I just have to ask; How would a Tinker class damage the Engineering profession?

    That's the only way overlap would be an issue...

  4. #1404
    Quote Originally Posted by Rhamses View Post
    I just have to ask; How would a Tinker class damage the Engineering profession?
    That's the only way overlap would be an issue...
    One of the issues is that it would make the in-game profession thematically redundant. Blizzard might as well remove the profession from the game. Another that comes to mind is the question: barring balance issues, what stops an engineer from crafting the same things a tinker does?

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  5. #1405
    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    One of the issues is that it would make the in-game profession thematically redundant. Blizzard might as well remove the profession from the game.
    Just as Mage makes Enchanting thematically redundant.

  6. #1406
    Quote Originally Posted by composemail View Post
    Just as Mage makes Enchanting thematically redundant.
    You're wrong. All enchanters do is to enchant pieces of armor and weapons. They're one school of magic: enchanting, while mages are at least two, usually three or four.

    As for engineers and tinkers, engineers already do all kinds of things: build weapons, bombs, mechs, vehicles, robots, all manners of technology items.

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  7. #1407
    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    You're wrong. All enchanters do is to enchant pieces of armor and weapons. They're one school of magic: enchanting, while mages are at least two, usually three or four.
    As for engineers and tinkers, engineers already do all kinds of things: build weapons, bombs, mechs, vehicles, robots, all manners of technology items.
    Engineers make shit. Engineering is a production profession. Tinker is a (proposed) class. Classes don't make things. Classes deal damage, hold threat, or heal. Tinker would do 1-3 of those things, hopefully with a novel game mechanic for each. Simple stuff, really.

    The bearing of the technology themed production profession on the technology themed class would be the same as the bearing of the arcane magic themed production profession on the arcane magic themed class.

  8. #1408
    Tinkers can be a class in WoW the day Blizzard removes the engineering profession from the game. Tinker abilities would overlap too much with the various bombs and gadgets that engineers have otherwise.
    Last edited by Mikael123; 2014-03-08 at 06:52 PM.

  9. #1409
    Quote Originally Posted by composemail View Post
    Engineers make shit. Engineering is a production profession. Tinker is a (proposed) class. Classes don't make things. Classes deal damage, hold threat, or heal. Tinker would do 1-3 of those things, hopefully with a novel game mechanic for each. Simple stuff, really.

    The bearing of the technology themed production profession on the technology themed class would be the same as the bearing of the arcane magic themed production profession on the arcane magic themed class.
    Enchanters enchant items, mages cast combat spells. There are no overlap. Engineers make tech 'shit'. Tinkers make tech 'shit'. Engineers use tech 'shit'. Tinkers use tech 'shit'. There is full overlap here.

    Thematically, there is nothing a tinker does that an engineer can't do.

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  10. #1410
    Quote Originally Posted by Mikael123 View Post
    Tinkers can be a class in WoW the day Blizzard removes the enginnering profession from the game. Tinker abilities would overlap too much with the various bombs and gadgets that engineers have otherwise.
    Blizzard has been nerfing and removing those item weapons since WotLK, and if early reports are true, will probably do away with them completely in WoD. Blizzard is changing professions in WoD because of the incoming Garrison system.

    Even if that doesn't happen, I don't carry any bombs or grenades on my toon. They literally serve no purpose. Frankly, the empty bag space is more useful.

  11. #1411
    Mostly, people who play an engineer+class could think of their character as a tinker right now. With an actual tinker class, that character would have to discard that concept and accept that engineers as a profession are really just hobbyists, or reroll as the new class if their race of choice is permitted.

    There's also the added issue of who gets what going forward. Long time engineers will see things go to tinkers that they feel belong to the profession, and tinkers will see the opposite. There would need to be a very clear distinction between what types of things belong to which group, and right now that distinction doesn't exist, since there's only one group for all tech stuff.
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  12. #1412
    Quote Originally Posted by hrugner View Post
    Mostly, people who play an engineer+class could think of their character as a tinker right now. With an actual tinker class, that character would have to discard that concept and accept that engineers as a profession are really just hobbyists, or reroll as the new class if their race of choice is permitted.

    There's also the added issue of who gets what going forward. Long time engineers will see things go to tinkers that they feel belong to the profession, and tinkers will see the opposite. There would need to be a very clear distinction between what types of things belong to which group, and right now that distinction doesn't exist, since there's only one group for all tech stuff.
    Well that's easy; All mounts, guns, armor, trinkets, armor Enchants, and knick knacks go to engineering. Anything resembling the Tinker abilities from HotS and WC3 would go to the class.

    I'm a high-ranked engineer, and there's no confusion. I know what a profession can do, and I know what a class can do. I also don't see my character as my professions. My character is a Monk, not an Engineer Jeweler.

  13. #1413
    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    Enchanters enchant items, mages cast combat spells. There are no overlap. Engineers make tech 'shit'. Tinkers make tech 'shit'. Engineers use tech 'shit'. Tinkers use tech 'shit'. There is full overlap here.
    The tinker class doesn't exist in WoW at the moment; they don't make anything. Obviously, were they to be created, they should not have overlapping abilities with any production profession.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    Thematically...

  14. #1414
    Quote Originally Posted by Rhamses View Post
    Well that's easy; All mounts, guns, armor, trinkets, armor Enchants, and knick knacks go to engineering. Anything resembling the Tinker abilities from HotS and WC3 would go to the class.

    I'm a high-ranked engineer, and there's no confusion. I know what a profession can do, and I know what a class can do. I also don't see my character as my professions. My character is a Monk, not an Engineer Jeweler.
    That's great for you, you want the distinction so it's easy to see. There's no reason to assume that this impression is universal or even common. I'm pretty certain that the moment there are bombs in the game that do something, with the engineer bombs still doing jack all, engineers will be pretty annoyed. Also, when engineer themed tier gear starts showing up, and engineers are being left out of certain types of googles, or visuals for some of the gadgets they actually have, there will be a bit of frustration.
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  15. #1415
    Quote Originally Posted by hrugner View Post
    Mostly, people who play an engineer+class could think of their character as a tinker right now. With an actual tinker class, that character would have to discard that concept and accept that engineers as a profession are really just hobbyists, or reroll as the new class if their race of choice is permitted.

    There's also the added issue of who gets what going forward. Long time engineers will see things go to tinkers that they feel belong to the profession, and tinkers will see the opposite. There would need to be a very clear distinction between what types of things belong to which group, and right now that distinction doesn't exist, since there's only one group for all tech stuff.
    This isn't an issue for Mage and Enchanter, and needn't be one for Tinker and Engineer. Is Enchanting more popular with people who play mage? Probably, the thematic alignment is nice, if anything. Maybe not though. It's not important. Enchanting is a production profession, Mage is a class, there is no overlap. Such it could be with Engineer and Tinker.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by hrugner View Post
    That's great for you, you want the distinction so it's easy to see. There's no reason to assume that this impression is universal or even common. I'm pretty certain that the moment there are bombs in the game that do something, with the engineer bombs still doing jack all, engineers will be pretty annoyed. Also, when engineer themed tier gear starts showing up, and engineers are being left out of certain types of googles, or visuals for some of the gadgets they actually have, there will be a bit of frustration.
    This just isn't the big deal you're making it out to be. What about Enchanters who don't have access to the very 'enchant-ery' Mage only challenge mode sets? Uh.. sorry, I guess? It's not reasonable to expect access to all gear on the basis of a profession you have.

  16. #1416
    Quote Originally Posted by composemail View Post
    This isn't an issue for Mage and Enchanter, and needn't be one for Tinker and Engineer. Is Enchanting more popular with people who play mage? Probably, the thematic alignment is nice, if anything. Maybe not though. It's not important. Enchanting is a production profession, Mage is a class, there is no overlap. Such it could be with Engineer and Tinker.
    This isn't one for mage/enchanter for pretty obvious reasons. If an enchanter was making spells happen I imagine things would be different.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by composemail View Post
    This just isn't the big deal you're making it out to be. What about Enchanters who don't have access to the very 'enchant-ery' Mage only challenge mode sets? Uh.. sorry, I guess? It's not reasonable to expect access to all gear on the basis of a profession you have.
    Considering engineering doesn't offer much more to the player than cosmetic choice of headgear (and other cosmetic toys) I think it's a bigger issue than you think. It wouldn't be the one case we have now, it would be every case for one class. If you're trying to make a case for tinker being no longer viable because their theme was given to mages via an armor set, I salute your humor.

    edit: this set
    http://wowroleplaygear.com/wp-conten...-Time-Lord.jpg
    Last edited by hrugner; 2014-03-08 at 07:46 PM.
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  17. #1417
    Quote Originally Posted by Rhamses View Post
    Well that's easy; All mounts, guns, armor, trinkets, armor Enchants, and knick knacks go to engineering. Anything resembling the Tinker abilities from HotS and WC3 would go to the class.
    And that is the main issue: every 'tinker' ability is an engineer ability.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by composemail View Post
    The tinker class doesn't exist in WoW at the moment; they don't make anything. Obviously, were they to be created, they should not have overlapping abilities with any production profession.
    Here we go again: if the tinker does not 'make' anything, what would be the difference from any other non-engineering NPC or player? None.

    image snip
    I do. Their themes are the same: tech crafters.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by composemail View Post
    This isn't an issue for Mage and Enchanter, and needn't be one for Tinker and Engineer. Is Enchanting more popular with people who play mage? Probably, the thematic alignment is nice, if anything. Maybe not though. It's not important. Enchanting is a production profession, Mage is a class, there is no overlap. Such it could be with Engineer and Tinker.
    The enchanting profession is popular with mages, priests and warlocks because a lot of those players pick 'tailoring' as one of their professions. And since Tailoring doesn't require a gathering profession, it leaves an open profession slot, which is often filled by the enchanting profession, that not only does not need a gathering profession as well, it also synergizes well with tailoring as enchanting would just disenchant the items made by tailoring to get enchanting materials.

    There is no overlap because enchanting's theme is enchanting pieces of armor and gear. The Mage's theme is an arcane spellcaster focused on combat.
    Last edited by Ielenia; 2014-03-08 at 07:43 PM.

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  18. #1418
    Quote Originally Posted by Thimagryn View Post
    "I wanna play a class like Sicco Thermaplugg!" said no one ever.

    You're absolutely right that Goblins are over the top and crazy. And they make up the low end of the Horde player base, the majority which is Blood Elf.

    But maybe I'm being too critical. You could play as a Blood Elf Tinker and look cool and sexy, right? Except you'd have giant, unsightly robot arms sticking out of your back, and you'd have an ability that lets you jump into a Shredder-like mech suit with just your head peeking out. There's really no way around the keeping both a Tinker identity and alienating a large chunk of the MMORPG player base. There's just some concepts best left to RTS/MOBAs, where a Tinker's whimsy is accepted in short bursts of fun. It doesn't work when you're getting RPG fans to stick with a class that looks like a toy.
    Different people think different things look unsightly. No class is ever going to be for everyone, and any new one is only going to have to really appeal to 8% of the playerbase to be considered a success. This one would appeal to that subset of the population who think things like robot arms and shredders are cool as hell. I'd wager that's significantly more people than 8%, judging from how common Sky Golems and other mechanical mounts and pets actually are.

    Also, can't speak for anyone else but I've wanted to be Sicco Thermaplugg since the first time I ran Gnomer nine years ago. Thought I could do it with engineering at first. The years have proven me wrong. But still, to this day it remains my favorite Vanilla instance.

  19. #1419
    Quote Originally Posted by Drilnos View Post
    Also, can't speak for anyone else but I've wanted to be Sicco Thermaplugg since the first time I ran Gnomer nine years ago. Thought I could do it with engineering at first. The years have proven me wrong. But still, to this day it remains my favorite Vanilla instance.
    Bias doesnt make good arguments

    Quote Originally Posted by Simulatio View Post
    A handful of people nut-busting about it on various forums does not equal popularity, and popularity does not equal good design.

  20. #1420
    Quote Originally Posted by hrugner View Post
    That's great for you, you want the distinction so it's easy to see. There's no reason to assume that this impression is universal or even common. I'm pretty certain that the moment there are bombs in the game that do something, with the engineer bombs still doing jack all, engineers will be pretty annoyed. Also, when engineer themed tier gear starts showing up, and engineers are being left out of certain types of googles, or visuals for some of the gadgets they actually have, there will be a bit of frustration.
    There's already bombs in the game via Mages. I'm not seeing Engineers complaining too much.

    The tier argument is silly man. You honestly believe that Blizzard couldn't design compelling tech-based tier sets AND compelling tech-themed goggles for engineers to make?

    The only thing that would tick Engineers off would be if Tinkers hindered their ability to make money. Since classes can't do that, there shouldn't be an issue.
    Last edited by Rhamses; 2014-03-08 at 07:57 PM.

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