View Poll Results: What is the probability that the Tinker can be the next class ( IYO)

Voters
1260. This poll is closed
  • 0%

    660 52.38%
  • 0-10%

    189 15.00%
  • 10-20%

    58 4.60%
  • 20-30%

    51 4.05%
  • 30-40%

    30 2.38%
  • 40-50%

    58 4.60%
  • 50-60%

    48 3.81%
  • 60-70%

    34 2.70%
  • 70-80%

    38 3.02%
  • 80-90%

    25 1.98%
  • 90-100%

    69 5.48%
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  1. #1401
    Quote Originally Posted by Mikael123 View Post
    Tinkers can be a class in WoW the day Blizzard removes the enginnering profession from the game. Tinker abilities would overlap too much with the various bombs and gadgets that engineers have otherwise.
    Blizzard has been nerfing and removing those item weapons since WotLK, and if early reports are true, will probably do away with them completely in WoD. Blizzard is changing professions in WoD because of the incoming Garrison system.

    Even if that doesn't happen, I don't carry any bombs or grenades on my toon. They literally serve no purpose. Frankly, the empty bag space is more useful.

  2. #1402
    Mostly, people who play an engineer+class could think of their character as a tinker right now. With an actual tinker class, that character would have to discard that concept and accept that engineers as a profession are really just hobbyists, or reroll as the new class if their race of choice is permitted.

    There's also the added issue of who gets what going forward. Long time engineers will see things go to tinkers that they feel belong to the profession, and tinkers will see the opposite. There would need to be a very clear distinction between what types of things belong to which group, and right now that distinction doesn't exist, since there's only one group for all tech stuff.

  3. #1403
    Quote Originally Posted by hrugner View Post
    Mostly, people who play an engineer+class could think of their character as a tinker right now. With an actual tinker class, that character would have to discard that concept and accept that engineers as a profession are really just hobbyists, or reroll as the new class if their race of choice is permitted.

    There's also the added issue of who gets what going forward. Long time engineers will see things go to tinkers that they feel belong to the profession, and tinkers will see the opposite. There would need to be a very clear distinction between what types of things belong to which group, and right now that distinction doesn't exist, since there's only one group for all tech stuff.
    Well that's easy; All mounts, guns, armor, trinkets, armor Enchants, and knick knacks go to engineering. Anything resembling the Tinker abilities from HotS and WC3 would go to the class.

    I'm a high-ranked engineer, and there's no confusion. I know what a profession can do, and I know what a class can do. I also don't see my character as my professions. My character is a Monk, not an Engineer Jeweler.

  4. #1404
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    Enchanters enchant items, mages cast combat spells. There are no overlap. Engineers make tech 'shit'. Tinkers make tech 'shit'. Engineers use tech 'shit'. Tinkers use tech 'shit'. There is full overlap here.
    The tinker class doesn't exist in WoW at the moment; they don't make anything. Obviously, were they to be created, they should not have overlapping abilities with any production profession.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    Thematically...

  5. #1405
    Quote Originally Posted by Rhamses View Post
    Well that's easy; All mounts, guns, armor, trinkets, armor Enchants, and knick knacks go to engineering. Anything resembling the Tinker abilities from HotS and WC3 would go to the class.

    I'm a high-ranked engineer, and there's no confusion. I know what a profession can do, and I know what a class can do. I also don't see my character as my professions. My character is a Monk, not an Engineer Jeweler.
    That's great for you, you want the distinction so it's easy to see. There's no reason to assume that this impression is universal or even common. I'm pretty certain that the moment there are bombs in the game that do something, with the engineer bombs still doing jack all, engineers will be pretty annoyed. Also, when engineer themed tier gear starts showing up, and engineers are being left out of certain types of googles, or visuals for some of the gadgets they actually have, there will be a bit of frustration.

  6. #1406
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by hrugner View Post
    Mostly, people who play an engineer+class could think of their character as a tinker right now. With an actual tinker class, that character would have to discard that concept and accept that engineers as a profession are really just hobbyists, or reroll as the new class if their race of choice is permitted.

    There's also the added issue of who gets what going forward. Long time engineers will see things go to tinkers that they feel belong to the profession, and tinkers will see the opposite. There would need to be a very clear distinction between what types of things belong to which group, and right now that distinction doesn't exist, since there's only one group for all tech stuff.
    This isn't an issue for Mage and Enchanter, and needn't be one for Tinker and Engineer. Is Enchanting more popular with people who play mage? Probably, the thematic alignment is nice, if anything. Maybe not though. It's not important. Enchanting is a production profession, Mage is a class, there is no overlap. Such it could be with Engineer and Tinker.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by hrugner View Post
    That's great for you, you want the distinction so it's easy to see. There's no reason to assume that this impression is universal or even common. I'm pretty certain that the moment there are bombs in the game that do something, with the engineer bombs still doing jack all, engineers will be pretty annoyed. Also, when engineer themed tier gear starts showing up, and engineers are being left out of certain types of googles, or visuals for some of the gadgets they actually have, there will be a bit of frustration.
    This just isn't the big deal you're making it out to be. What about Enchanters who don't have access to the very 'enchant-ery' Mage only challenge mode sets? Uh.. sorry, I guess? It's not reasonable to expect access to all gear on the basis of a profession you have.

  7. #1407
    Quote Originally Posted by composemail View Post
    This isn't an issue for Mage and Enchanter, and needn't be one for Tinker and Engineer. Is Enchanting more popular with people who play mage? Probably, the thematic alignment is nice, if anything. Maybe not though. It's not important. Enchanting is a production profession, Mage is a class, there is no overlap. Such it could be with Engineer and Tinker.
    This isn't one for mage/enchanter for pretty obvious reasons. If an enchanter was making spells happen I imagine things would be different.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by composemail View Post
    This just isn't the big deal you're making it out to be. What about Enchanters who don't have access to the very 'enchant-ery' Mage only challenge mode sets? Uh.. sorry, I guess? It's not reasonable to expect access to all gear on the basis of a profession you have.
    Considering engineering doesn't offer much more to the player than cosmetic choice of headgear (and other cosmetic toys) I think it's a bigger issue than you think. It wouldn't be the one case we have now, it would be every case for one class. If you're trying to make a case for tinker being no longer viable because their theme was given to mages via an armor set, I salute your humor.

    edit: this set
    http://wowroleplaygear.com/wp-conten...-Time-Lord.jpg
    Last edited by hrugner; 2014-03-08 at 07:46 PM.

  8. #1408
    The Unstoppable Force Ielenia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rhamses View Post
    Well that's easy; All mounts, guns, armor, trinkets, armor Enchants, and knick knacks go to engineering. Anything resembling the Tinker abilities from HotS and WC3 would go to the class.
    And that is the main issue: every 'tinker' ability is an engineer ability.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by composemail View Post
    The tinker class doesn't exist in WoW at the moment; they don't make anything. Obviously, were they to be created, they should not have overlapping abilities with any production profession.
    Here we go again: if the tinker does not 'make' anything, what would be the difference from any other non-engineering NPC or player? None.

    image snip
    I do. Their themes are the same: tech crafters.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by composemail View Post
    This isn't an issue for Mage and Enchanter, and needn't be one for Tinker and Engineer. Is Enchanting more popular with people who play mage? Probably, the thematic alignment is nice, if anything. Maybe not though. It's not important. Enchanting is a production profession, Mage is a class, there is no overlap. Such it could be with Engineer and Tinker.
    The enchanting profession is popular with mages, priests and warlocks because a lot of those players pick 'tailoring' as one of their professions. And since Tailoring doesn't require a gathering profession, it leaves an open profession slot, which is often filled by the enchanting profession, that not only does not need a gathering profession as well, it also synergizes well with tailoring as enchanting would just disenchant the items made by tailoring to get enchanting materials.

    There is no overlap because enchanting's theme is enchanting pieces of armor and gear. The Mage's theme is an arcane spellcaster focused on combat.
    Last edited by Ielenia; 2014-03-08 at 07:43 PM.
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  9. #1409
    Quote Originally Posted by Thimagryn View Post
    "I wanna play a class like Sicco Thermaplugg!" said no one ever.

    You're absolutely right that Goblins are over the top and crazy. And they make up the low end of the Horde player base, the majority which is Blood Elf.

    But maybe I'm being too critical. You could play as a Blood Elf Tinker and look cool and sexy, right? Except you'd have giant, unsightly robot arms sticking out of your back, and you'd have an ability that lets you jump into a Shredder-like mech suit with just your head peeking out. There's really no way around the keeping both a Tinker identity and alienating a large chunk of the MMORPG player base. There's just some concepts best left to RTS/MOBAs, where a Tinker's whimsy is accepted in short bursts of fun. It doesn't work when you're getting RPG fans to stick with a class that looks like a toy.
    Different people think different things look unsightly. No class is ever going to be for everyone, and any new one is only going to have to really appeal to 8% of the playerbase to be considered a success. This one would appeal to that subset of the population who think things like robot arms and shredders are cool as hell. I'd wager that's significantly more people than 8%, judging from how common Sky Golems and other mechanical mounts and pets actually are.

    Also, can't speak for anyone else but I've wanted to be Sicco Thermaplugg since the first time I ran Gnomer nine years ago. Thought I could do it with engineering at first. The years have proven me wrong. But still, to this day it remains my favorite Vanilla instance.

  10. #1410
    Quote Originally Posted by Drilnos View Post
    Also, can't speak for anyone else but I've wanted to be Sicco Thermaplugg since the first time I ran Gnomer nine years ago. Thought I could do it with engineering at first. The years have proven me wrong. But still, to this day it remains my favorite Vanilla instance.
    Bias doesnt make good arguments

    Quote Originally Posted by Simulatio View Post
    A handful of people nut-busting about it on various forums does not equal popularity, and popularity does not equal good design.

  11. #1411
    Quote Originally Posted by hrugner View Post
    That's great for you, you want the distinction so it's easy to see. There's no reason to assume that this impression is universal or even common. I'm pretty certain that the moment there are bombs in the game that do something, with the engineer bombs still doing jack all, engineers will be pretty annoyed. Also, when engineer themed tier gear starts showing up, and engineers are being left out of certain types of googles, or visuals for some of the gadgets they actually have, there will be a bit of frustration.
    There's already bombs in the game via Mages. I'm not seeing Engineers complaining too much.

    The tier argument is silly man. You honestly believe that Blizzard couldn't design compelling tech-based tier sets AND compelling tech-themed goggles for engineers to make?

    The only thing that would tick Engineers off would be if Tinkers hindered their ability to make money. Since classes can't do that, there shouldn't be an issue.
    Last edited by Rhamses; 2014-03-08 at 07:57 PM.

  12. #1412
    Quote Originally Posted by Sukhoi View Post
    Bias doesnt make good arguments
    So what, wanting to play a Tinker disqualifies me from arguing for them? Liking Warcraft technology's look and feel makes me not fit to talk about it? That what you're trying to say?

    And if I see someone who says "nobody ever said they wanted to play a class like Sicco Thermaplugg," that's factually inaccurate and I will rebut in turn. Pretty sure Sicco was mentioned several pages back, too.

  13. #1413
    The Unstoppable Force Ielenia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rhamses View Post
    There's already bombs in the game via Mages. I'm not seeing Engineers complaining too much.
    You're seriously not comparing the mage bombs, which are simply names for a certain trio of spells, to actual constructed bombs, are you?
    "Torturing someone is not an evil thing to do if it is done for good reasons" by Varodoc
    "You sit in OG/SW waiting on a Mythic+ queue" by Altmer <- Oh, the pearls in this forum...
    "They sort of did this Dragonriding, which ushered in the Dracthyr race." by Teriz <- the BS some people reach for their narratives...

  14. #1414
    Deleted
    Enchanters use arcane magic to craft enchantments; mages use arcane magic in combat.
    Engineers use technology to craft novelty items; tinkers use technology in combat.

    There's no difference. Tinkers needn't (and surely wouldn't) make anything. No class crafts shit.

  15. #1415
    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    You're seriously not comparing the mage bombs, which are simply names for a certain trio of spells, to actual constructed bombs, are you?
    The verb "construct" does not imply anything physical. It is possible to construct a thought, or a snippet of programming code. Spells are constructed from mana and incantations. Bomb spells are magic bombs. Things have names for reasons.

  16. #1416
    The Unstoppable Force Ielenia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by composemail View Post
    Enchanters use arcane magic to craft enchantments; mages use arcane magic in combat.
    Engineers use technology to craft novelty items; tinkers use technology in combat.

    There's no difference. Tinkers needn't (and surely wouldn't) make anything. No class crafts shit.
    Except that technology can be used by anyone in combat, by warriors, mages, druids, priests, etc...
    "Torturing someone is not an evil thing to do if it is done for good reasons" by Varodoc
    "You sit in OG/SW waiting on a Mythic+ queue" by Altmer <- Oh, the pearls in this forum...
    "They sort of did this Dragonriding, which ushered in the Dracthyr race." by Teriz <- the BS some people reach for their narratives...

  17. #1417
    Warchief godofslack's Avatar
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    I think it's pretty important to point out that there are 3 holy light based healer specs in the game, each with a very different play style so to say that you can't have a tinker that won't have overlap with engineering or Demon Hunters with Rogues/Warlocks is nutso. It's a design challenge, and honestly it's not a huge one compared to making different class.

  18. #1418
    The Unstoppable Force Ielenia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drilnos View Post
    The verb "construct" does not imply anything physical. It is possible to construct a thought, or a snippet of programming code. Spells are constructed from mana and incantations. Bomb spells are magic bombs. Things have names for reasons.
    Fine, I'll rephrase for Rhamses:
    "You're seriously not comparing the mage bombs, which are simply names for a certain trio of spells, to actual crafted, bombs, are you?"
    "Torturing someone is not an evil thing to do if it is done for good reasons" by Varodoc
    "You sit in OG/SW waiting on a Mythic+ queue" by Altmer <- Oh, the pearls in this forum...
    "They sort of did this Dragonriding, which ushered in the Dracthyr race." by Teriz <- the BS some people reach for their narratives...

  19. #1419
    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    Fine, I'll rephrase for Rhamses:
    "You're seriously not comparing the mage bombs, which are simply names for a certain trio of spells, to actual crafted, bombs, are you?"
    I could compare it to the Rogue's Smoke Bomb, or the functionally similar Hunter Explosive Trap (via Trap Launcher).

    Either way, Engineers aren't complaining.

  20. #1420
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    Except that technology can be used by anyone in combat, by warriors, mages, druids, priests, etc...
    And they all can benefit from arcane magic with enchanted gear.

    What would separate a tinker from a hunter with gun, or a warrior with that Wrath sawblade thing, would be thematic and gameplay nuances only. No different to what separates warrior from Death Knight (or any other two classes really).

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