View Poll Results: What is the probability that the Tinker can be the next class ( IYO)

Voters
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  • 0%

    660 52.38%
  • 0-10%

    189 15.00%
  • 10-20%

    58 4.60%
  • 20-30%

    51 4.05%
  • 30-40%

    30 2.38%
  • 40-50%

    58 4.60%
  • 50-60%

    48 3.81%
  • 60-70%

    34 2.70%
  • 70-80%

    38 3.02%
  • 80-90%

    25 1.98%
  • 90-100%

    69 5.48%
  1. #2361
    It's more of a profession than a class. A Tinker class with engineering profession would be one busy key binder
    Last edited by saucywench; 2014-03-21 at 03:37 PM.

  2. #2362
    Quote Originally Posted by Rhamses View Post

    You didn't answer the question.
    You asked two questions.

    1. Why does that conversation need to be had? The answer: No conversations need to be had, so this isn't much of a question.

    2. What's the problem? The answer: Clearly there isn't a consensus on whether tinker is suited to the game, neither among us nor among the developers. Pretending like there is is silly, so this also isn't much of a question.

    So what on earth did you want answered?
    blah, new sig... something something

  3. #2363
    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    Remember this: it must also have rocket launchers, be able to create big structures that will build walking bombs, and then completely wrap around the wearer to become some sort of mech.
    All of that is possible in the Warcraft universe, and the design team can overcome any issue with size or space. What's the problem?

    "Are now" is wrong. They always were. Waaaay back in Warcraft 3. Chen participated in the founding of Orgrimmar, remember? It wasn't something added when Mists of Pandaria went live, no. It was canon from before WoW even went into Alpha.
    Then the issue isn't that it was an "April Fool's joke". The issue with you is that it wasn't part of the WC3 campaign. That isn't really a big problem since they've appeared in HotS and are talked about in WoW.

  4. #2364
    Quote Originally Posted by Rhamses View Post
    All of that is possible in the Warcraft universe, and the design team can overcome any issue with size or space. What's the problem?
    There is no 'small backpack that changes into big mech' anywhere in Azeroth.

    Then the issue isn't that it was an "April Fool's joke". The issue with you is that it wasn't part of the WC3 campaign.
    Yes, therefore are not canon, and cannot be considered as such.

    That isn't really a big problem since they've appeared in HotS
    HotS is not Azeroth, or WoW, or even remotely in-game connected in any sort of way to even be considered as 'canon'. Otherwise, like Fixx said, 'Kerrigan' or 'Diablo' class could exist.

    and are talked about in WoW.
    Titles. Goblins simply call their engineers 'tinkers', just like Draenei call their paladins 'Vindicators' and their priests 'Anchorites, and how Blood Elves call their paladins 'Blood Knights'.

  5. #2365
    Quote Originally Posted by saucywench View Post
    It's more of a profession than a class. A Tinker class with engineering profession would be one busy key binder
    Not any moreso than any other class that takes the engineering profession. Tinker abilities would not be attached to worn gear. Like a shaman's totems or a warlock's demonic gateway, their gadgets would exist outside the inventory and be used only as part of ability animations.

  6. #2366
    Quote Originally Posted by Rhamses View Post
    I got it the first time. You're still wrong.
    I said more people wanted pandaren brewmaster than goblin tinker and proved it afterwards. How I'm wrong in this? Are we in mirror universe suddenly?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rhamses View Post
    The Tinker is part of the Warcraft universe. Kerrigan isn't part of the Warcraft universe. Terrible straw man argument right there my friend.
    HotS isn't part of warcraft universe. Also with your logic we could just as well get Illidan, Malfurion, Arthas or Diablo as a class since those are part of warcraft universe and present in HotS.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rhamses View Post
    False. People don't want something new if it's not truly new. Read any new class thread on this forum or on the official forums. The main complaints against any concept is that it's too similar to existing classes.
    Vocal minority crying on forums want boring stuff repeated (like demon hunters or tinkers) and would immediately afterwards cry "rehash!" while the majority is happy with just anything new content.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rhamses View Post
    Biased or not, that poll would give you some evidence to fall back on. All you have right now is your personal opinion, which clearly errs on the side of an irrational distaste for the Tinker concept.
    Biased data is just as valuable as any one person's opinion, for example mine. And that value is exactly zero. That's why Blizzard doesn't read or do forum polls but are actually doing it right (sending polls to a statistically significant random portion of all of their subscribers instead of hater site like MMOC).

    I simply don't care about the tinker concept because just like all other fanmade class and race concepts presented on this forum it's simply bad from game design perspective, and none of them make much sense with stupidly overpowered abilities or half of the spells overlapping with already existing classes or professions. What I am against instead is the circular logic, semantics and strawman arguments that people use to defend their pet project classes that clearly have no viable design space in WoW as it stands today.

  7. #2367
    Scarab Lord Unholyground's Avatar
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    Next class will be a ranged weapon user with agility mail armor to fill the itemization gap, it is the only logical choice for them to make.
    “What can be asserted without proof can be dismissed without proof.”

    -Christopher Hitchens, 13 April 1949 – 15 December 2011

  8. #2368
    Quote Originally Posted by Rhamses View Post
    Then the issue isn't that it was an "April Fool's joke". The issue with you is that it wasn't part of the WC3 campaign. That isn't really a big problem since they've appeared in HotS and are talked about in WoW.
    You keep to continually confuse WoW with Heroes, which is a game that allows whimsical concepts such as Lumber Jack Uther, ETC and Chef Stitches. WoW would not be the same game if our player classes were forced to play as Lumber Jacks, ETC and Chef-looking Abominations.

    This isn't a case of choosing to look like a Tinker, this is a case of playing a class that would have to look whimsical in order to represent the Warcraft 3 identity.

    This is why many of us are suggesting to toss away that identity and bring in a new Steampunk one. This includes tossing the use of Pocket Factory, which makes no sense in a MMORPG. It would make more sense to have it work like Army of the Dead, where robots simply spawn out of nowhere (parachute in, drill up from underground, 'materialize' in). Hammer Tank form is also awkward to implement, and it'd be much easier to stick with something more practical, like a simple mech suit.

    The War3/Heroes Tinker visual design is a hard sell for an MMO class.

  9. #2369
    Elemental Lord Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fixx View Post
    HotS isn't part of warcraft universe. Also with your logic we could just as well get Illidan, Malfurion, Arthas or Diablo as a class since those are part of warcraft universe and present in HotS.
    We already have all of their classes in there.

    Malfurion=Druid
    Arthas=Death Knight
    Illidan= Warlock

    Also fyi, Diablo is part of the Diablo universe.


    I simply don't care about the tinker concept because just like all other fanmade class and race concepts presented on this forum it's simply bad from game design perspective, and none of them make much sense with stupidly overpowered abilities or half of the spells overlapping with already existing classes or professions. What I am against instead is the circular logic, semantics and strawman arguments that people use to defend their pet project classes that clearly have no viable design space in WoW as it stands today.
    Which clearly shows that you have no idea what design space in WoW actually is. There's no technology class in the game. There's technology in the game world, there's a technology-based profession, and we battle against technology NPCs. There's a lot of design space for a technology class.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Thimagryn View Post
    You keep to continually confuse WoW with Heroes, which is a game that allows whimsical concepts such as Lumber Jack Uther, ETC and Chef Stitches.
    Weren't you just using the Heroes version of Illidan as a possible way Blizzard could implement the Demon Hunter class in WoW?

  10. #2370
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    We already have all of their classes in there.
    Malfurion=Druid
    Arthas=Death Knight
    Illidan= Warlock
    Also fyi, Diablo is part of the Diablo universe.
    So what? If you're going to imply HotS is canon-wise connected to WoW to use the Gazzlowe hero as canon in WoW, then Diablo, Kerrigan and all the other heroes of HotS are also connected to WoW since they are in HotS. You cannot have it both ways.

    Which clearly shows that you have no idea what design space in WoW actually is.
    Actually, you're the one with little to no idea of what 'design space' is, with all the hypocrisy and semantics you keep using in favor of your ideas, and against other people's ideas.

  11. #2371
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Weren't you just using the Heroes version of Illidan as a possible way Blizzard could implement the Demon Hunter class in WoW?
    Yes, and none of it has conflict with the issues I've brought up. Illidan in Heroes is not whimsically designed, not in conflict with MMORPG design (ie has no pathing blockers) and he retains the identity of the Demon Hunter of Warcraft 3 without relying on abilities used by the Warlock, including a new Metamorphosis. Heroes like Muradin and Uther would work the same way if translated to WoW (as they are already represented by Warrior and Paladin classes)

    The Tinker from Heroes faces the same problems as implementing characters like Kurdran or Mechatorque, who have designs that aren't fitting for a WoW class. Gazlowe's abilities in Heroes would be acceptable, but his 'look' is intrusive to MMORPG visual design.
    Last edited by Thimagryn; 2014-03-21 at 06:44 PM.

  12. #2372
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Illidan= Warlock
    He is a Demon hunter Source Warcraft III, Alliance Player's Guide, pg. 47-48.

  13. #2373
    Elemental Lord Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    So what? If you're going to imply HotS is canon-wise connected to WoW to use the Gazzlowe hero as canon in WoW, then Diablo, Kerrigan and all the other heroes of HotS are also connected to WoW since they are in HotS. You cannot have it both ways.
    I never said that HotS was cannon. I was merely pointing out to Fixx that he "classes" of those heroes already exist in WoW.

    What did I tell you about responding to posts before reading the discussion?


    Actually, you're the one with little to no idea of what 'design space' is, with all the hypocrisy and semantics you keep using in favor of your ideas, and against other people's ideas.
    Pot meet kettle...

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatecore View Post
    He is a Demon hunter Source Warcraft III, Alliance Player's Guide, pg. 47-48.
    He's a demon in WoW. All things demon are attributed to the Warlock class, which is why they've received so much Illidan related stuff.

  14. #2374
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    He's a demon in WoW. All things demon are attributed to the Warlock class, which is why they've received so much Illidan related stuff.

    No no and no

    stop making up shit


    For that he was called Betrayer and was locked away for 10.000 years to Tyrande released him and set him loose in the world again.. There he gets the Skull of Guldan.. Story dont tell if it was Guldans skull or an artifact made by him, but it contains a lot of his memories.. it also cost him his soul and he gets "neither demon nor nightelf, but something more."
    he was NEVER A WARLOCK

  15. #2375
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    I never said that HotS was cannon. I was merely pointing out to Fixx that he "classes" of those heroes already exist in WoW.
    What did I tell you about responding to posts before reading the discussion?
    Yes, you did. Many times I told you that HotS is not connected in any in-game way to WoW, yet you kept saying that those two game are in-game connected to draw your Tinker idea from it. You need to start keeping your pseudo-facts straight, it's getting too easy to counter your 'facts' with your own, other 'facts'. Remember to re-read your older posts before you try to post more pseudo-facts.

    Pot meet kettle...
    What? I'm not one reaching to games and series unconnected to WoW to try to argue viability of my ideas.

  16. #2376
    Elemental Lord Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thimagryn View Post
    Yes, and none of it has conflict with the issues I've brought up. Illidan in Heroes is not whimsically designed,
    In your opinion.

    not in conflict with MMORPG design (ie has no pathing blockers)
    So you're saying that there's no way blizzard art team can design a hammer tank that won't obstruct your view?

    and he retains the identity of the Demon Hunter of Warcraft 3 without relying on abilities used by the Warlock, including a new Metamorphosis.
    Metamorphosis is a Warlock ability.

    The Tinker from Heroes faces the same problems as implementing characters like Kurdran or Mechatorque, who have designs that aren't fitting for a WoW class. Gazlowe's abilities in Heroes would be acceptable, but his 'look' is intrusive to MMORPG visual design.
    I'd love to see some evidence, since there's plenty examples of effects and abilities that emanate from the back of a character.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatecore View Post
    No no and no

    stop making up shit
    http://wowhead.com/npc=22917

    Is Wowhead making shit up?

    Heck, even HotS says that he's a demon.

  17. #2377
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    http://wowhead.com/npc=22917

    Is Wowhead making shit up?

    Heck, even HotS says that he's a demon.

    Lore wise when he gets the Skull of Guldan.. Story dont tell if it was Guldans skull or an artifact made by him, but it contains a lot of his memories.. it also cost him his soul and he gets "neither demon nor nightelf, but something more."


    You said
    All things demon are attributed to the Warlock class, which is why they've received so much Illidan related stuff.
    ^ that is made up shit

    All things demon are attributed to the Warlock class are not from Illidan
    Last edited by Hatecore; 2014-03-21 at 07:38 PM.

  18. #2378
    Quote Originally Posted by Unholyground View Post
    Next class will be a ranged weapon user with agility mail armor to fill the itemization gap, it is the only logical choice for them to make.
    If filling item gaps was a valid avenue for discussion, wouldn't wand use be a priority? Every other weapon is used as more than a stat stick by some class. Item use gaps probably aren't a big issue when deciding on what class to make.
    blah, new sig... something something

  19. #2379
    Elemental Lord Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hatecore View Post
    Lore wise when he gets the Skull of Guldan.. Story dont tell if it was Guldans skull or an artifact made by him, but it contains a lot of his memories.. it also cost him his soul and he gets "neither demon nor nightelf, but something more."
    That's nice. Too bad Wowhead is a better authority than whatever site you pulled that from.



    ^ that is made up shit

    All things demon are attributed to the Warlock class are not from Illidan
    Which isn't what I said. I said that all things demon goes to Warlocks, and since Illidan is a demon, his abilities and attributes are pulled into the Warlock class by default.

  20. #2380
    infact warlock lore.


    The Council of the Black Harvest

    The pages within contain the story of the six master warlock trainers who unlocked the secrets of the most destructive forces to ever threaten Azeroth.

    This rare alliance resulted in the new magics which were unleashed to all Warlock sects after The Cataclysm.

    In the wake of The Cataclysm, the rising tensions between The Horde and Alliance have driven the greatest heroes of Azeroth to train for war. Warriors have readied their war banners. The Death Knights of Acherus have learned to control the Undead and it is even said the mages are researching ways to undo time itself.

    Word of these new threats compelled the Warlocks to action. Convening in shadows, a council of six fought about what must be done to ensure the supremacy of their order, after several nights of blame, bickering, and signed beareds, the human Warlock Kanrethad spoke out:

    "The relentless darkness which bathed Azeroth has been pushed back. Cho'Gall is slain and the remnants of the Twilight's Hammer cult have been scattered. Ragnaros is defeated and his armies forced back into the Firelands. Deathwing lies torn apart and his twilight drakes obliterated. However, the powers they commanded are not so easily forgotten... powers untapped and ripe for the taking."

    "In fact, among us now stands several who have faced their power firsthand." He said, pointing at a hooded figure across the room. A deep, sinister laugh echoed through the room as his hood burst into flames and burned away to reveal the orc enchanted, Ritssyn.

    "It is true, pink skin, I was there when the Firelord was vanquished. The intensity of his flame was unlike anything you can imagine." the burning glow of Ritssyn's eyes cast eerie shadows over his burn-scarred face and thick-tusked grin.

    "Untrue." spat a sharp, feminine voice, Shinfel. A Blood Elf adorned with sharp spikes of twilight elementium glared across the table, "Until you've been a prisoner within your own mind you know nothing of horror." Shinfel's blood had been corrupted during the fight with Cho'gall and her arms were now covered in black marks left behind by the corruption that had erupted from her skin. The experience had only served to increase the intensity of her sadism. Shinfel continued, "Even the Firelord's flames were overshadowed by the raw chaos unleashed by the Destroyer." She paused a moment and glanced to a Worgen who remained eerily silent. Zinnin had been present when Deathing was unmade and had not spoken a word since. Zinnin's eyes narrowed for a moment, then snarled at Ritssyn.

    Kanrethad stood up from the table and took a deep breath. "This is exactly why we are here. I have no love for any of you, but we each bore witness to pieces of even greater power. Imagine - if we fused the molten fury of the Firelands with the unstoppable chaos of Deathwing, even the powers of the burning legion could not hold a candle to our flames!"

    Ritssyn kicked his boots upon the table and snickered. "And just who would do this? You?" he spat. "I think not. You haven't been seen in battle since the siege of the Black Temple. If it weren't for having shared the secrets of Illidan's transformation with this council, I would kill you just for having the audacity of summoning me."

    Kanrethad's lips pursed for a moment, but he relaxed and continued. "No, the scope of this task exceeds the capabilities of any single member here. I propose this council split into pairs. Ritssyn and Zinnin would lead a group into Sulfuras. Similarly, Shinfel and Zelfrax would hunt down the remaining members of the Twilight's Hammer cult and ... persuade them to share what they learned."

    A pock-faced Gnome applauded with mirthful glee. Kanrethad continued, "then we return... one year from now and take the results of our expeditions back to our own sects. More powerful than we would have been alone."

    Ritssyn frowned as he saw the greed drown out in the Human's words dance across the council's faces, "And what would keep us from simply killing our partner in their sleep once it was a success?"

    Kanrethad's brow furrowed and he growled, "Which is why we swear that if any member of this council breaks the contract and fails to return or returns alone, the others shall strike them down and banish their soul forever. We either succeed together or die alone."

    Ritssyn knew at that moment there was no turning back. To decline was to invite his own death, and Kanrethad had seen to that already. He could defeat the human singlehandedly, but against all five? No. Not now... but after learning the secrets of the destroyer that Zinnin held...

    "Fine. I can play along with your fool's errand. But first I must know, where will you and that miserable forsaken Jubeka be going?"

    "Me?" spoke Kanrethad with a wicked grin, "Why I'm returning... to Outland."

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