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  1. #1

    Current raiding is fine, the difficulty level of 5 mans/questing/trades are bad

    So raiding is more or less ok, could use some tweaks but I am not going to bitch about that right now.

    Disregard raiding for a moment, the other meat of the game is spoiled. 5 mans are ridiculously easy, need to tuned harder for sure. Same with questing. Both offer no challenge at all and it really puts me off. Trades and economy is not great either. Some clear improvements would be nice.

    I would like if Blizzard would commit to:

    1. Upping difficulty level in 5 man dungeons, bring back CC as well, meaning you have to use it to get through it.

    2. I do not like the way talents are done, ok there, I said it. I miss trees and if you cant bring those back try something better than the current.

    3. Threat needs to be a thing again.

    4. The classes are all the same now. Was defined roles so bad before? I say that was awesome.

    You know what is funny? Blizz plans to lower dps numbers and that in itself might be something I might re-sub for. That and harder quest/5 man content.

  2. #2
    I don't think they will ever go back to harder leveling/questing content they seem happy to have it something relatively easy to get through which in my opinion it should be. that said with how popular the green fire quest was I imagine they might try and put some similar difficulty quests in there for folks like you. As for the economy and trade that's something that Blizzard can't really fix without making some heavy executive decisions as we generally decide the value of certain objects.

  3. #3
    Why do people want cc to be a part of dungeons? I doesn't make it harder, it just makes it take way longer.

  4. #4
    CC is still needed in raids so I don't see why it shouldn't be needed in 5 man's and when you outgear 5 mans you won't need CC, whch is cool.

  5. #5
    This game isn't BC anymore and never will be again.

  6. #6
    I don't understand how you can say 5 mans are easy but current raiding is not? People steamed through over 75% of SoO hours after heroics were available.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Grogo View Post
    So raiding is more or less ok, could use some tweaks but I am not going to bitch about that right now.

    Disregard raiding for a moment, the other meat of the game is spoiled. 5 mans are ridiculously easy, need to tuned harder for sure. Same with questing. Both offer no challenge at all and it really puts me off. Trades and economy is not great either. Some clear improvements would be nice.
    I actually support the contrary. Harder raids, easier heroics with challenger modes.
    Heroic dungeons are supposed to be farmable...hard content to farm is always a chore.
    How can you think Raiding is in a good spot right now and you want harder content in Heroic 5's? Makes no sense....LFR (raiding) would be easier than heroics -_-

  8. #8
    be more interesting if cooldowns was needed/helpful to 5mans, say oh this pack deals a lot of aoe damage, use personals or an off-tranq or healing tide etc. but they really don't require any of that shit. then you could use CC or cooldowns to overcome the pack.

    instead currently i just go oh a pack 2222222222 (chain lightning), a boss 3 44444444444, thats it. 25hc raids i'll use way more binds about 5 times as much, this is why 5 mans are a problem and a joke.

  9. #9
    I am pretty sure with max level dungeons in WoD the heroics will at least get a bit harder. Probably now TBC/Cata hard, but definitly harder then MoP. Imo Wrath had a good difficulty, because at the beginning it wasn't that easy (most only remember it with LFG, but that was introduced during 3.3 when pretty much everyone outgeared the content).

    Regarding harder quest content, I am not sure. Questing should be doable by everyone without too much trouble. However, a few max level quests or hard random events like on Timeless Isle or rare mobs, sure why not? As long as they are not part of the main storyline of a zone or completely random/optional, I am all for upping the difficulty.

  10. #10
    bit OT but what i would love to see is heroic leveling dungeons tuned for heirlooms with double exp or something. no need for nothing fancy, just buff up the numbers. queueble but require premade like flex.

  11. #11
    The Lightbringer thunderdragon2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hypasonic View Post
    CC is still needed in raids so I don't see why it shouldn't be needed in 5 man's and when you outgear 5 mans you won't need CC, whch is cool.

    huh what where is cc needed in raid now?

  12. #12
    Fluffy Kitten Thage's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grogo View Post
    1. Upping difficulty level in 5 man dungeons, bring back CC as well, meaning you have to use it to get through it.
    Already planned. Dungeons in Warlords of Draenor will have a leveling version, a level 100 Normal version designed identical to MoP Heroics (easy, blue gear, quick to blast through) and a level 100 Heroic version closer to pre-nerf Vortex Pinnacle difficulty, apparently with gear that's going to be more or less competitive with LFR t15 as an alternative for players of a higher skill level. It is also apparently slated to require a premade group a la Heroic Scenarios, which will let them require tighter coordination. Challenge Modes will also still be a thing and the Heroics are being designed to remain relevant with each new tier of dungeons added, so Level 100 Normal will have a tiered approach and Heroic will drop gear and have mob/boss stats tuned for the newest tier of Heroic dungeon content. At least, that was the plan as I understood it as of Blizzcon.

    2. I do not like the way talents are done, ok there, I said it. I miss trees and if you cant bring those back try something better than the current.
    They heard you, and from 90 to 100 we'll be getting upgrades to our spells and abilities as we level, every level, so they can bring back that feeling of getting a little something that makes you feel like you're getting better every level rather than every fifteen levels, and a new tier of talents at 100. Expect that to continue the expac after--giving us better skills rather than risking going back to the problem of button bloat just to give us leveling rewards to look forward to.

    3. Threat needs to be a thing again.
    Maybe in 5-Man Heroic and Normal+. The threat change was to encourage people who were scared of tanking to give it a shot, much like why both new classes have a tanking spec.

    4. The classes are all the same now. Was defined roles so bad before? I say that was awesome.
    I have to disagree. Playing my Windwalker monk, my Arms warrior, my Ret pally, my Assassin rogue and my BM hunter all feel distinct from each other. My warlock's still a lowbie, but leveling her feels totally different from when I got a mage to 72 before abandoning it. I don't have a single class I can keybind the same way or muscle-memory the same rotation for, not if I want to push more than 30k DPS.

    And yes, defined roles were bad. When you have three specs but only one of them is worth a pig fart, your class design is bad and you should feel bad--and yes, this holds true today.

    You know what is funny? Blizz plans to lower dps numbers and that in itself might be something I might re-sub for. That and harder quest/5 man content.
    Quest content isn't slated to be hard, like, at all. They even called Warlords leveling a 'fun romp through Draenor' at Blizzcon. Most if not all of the difficulty will probably come from being restricted to ground mounts until 6.1 and the risk of stumbling into an event tuned for a group.

    Awesome sig by Elyaan is awesome.

  13. #13
    Stop trying to fuck with threat. Trying to manage threat is NOT FUN. Its not fun as a dps to have to throttle, its not fun as a tank to have to hold threat and mitigate/position. Stop the bullshit.

  14. #14
    Time Invested =/= Difficulty.

    Though I'm in the small % of the population that if Blizzard gives me something to CC I just make sure to cycle my rotation better so I do not.

    I don't actually remember any point in the last 3 expansions where I have actually CC'd a target in a Dungeon.
    Quote Originally Posted by Seriss View Post
    How about we wait till we're actually playing it before we go into estimating the amount of content in comparison to expansion x and how little it is and how bad it is and how feature y doesn't count because some people don't care about it and those people that like it don't count because they don't matter for some obscure reason?

  15. #15
    If CC is not required why the hell do we even have them, they should be used and it adds another dimension as there can be skilled involved and some sacrifice for team.

  16. #16
    I swear TBC hipsters roll off a factory line somewhere.

    Quote Originally Posted by Grogo View Post
    1. Upping difficulty level in 5 man dungeons, bring back CC as well, meaning you have to use it to get through it.
    They will be.

    Quote Originally Posted by Grogo View Post
    2. I do not like the way talents are done, ok there, I said it. I miss trees and if you cant bring those back try something better than the current.
    The old talents were garbage, trees are a thing of the past, they never truly worked and I hate playing games with trees now.

    Quote Originally Posted by Grogo View Post
    3. Threat needs to be a thing again.
    Yawn. Threat is was and always will be boring.

    Quote Originally Posted by Grogo View Post
    4. The classes are all the same now. Was defined roles so bad before? I say that was awesome.
    If you mean broken imbalanced then yeah that was so bad before. They're far from all the same now.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tojara View Post
    Look Batman really isn't an accurate source by any means
    Quote Originally Posted by Hooked View Post
    It is a fact, not just something I made up.

  17. #17
    I'm very curious about what "defined roles" you believe existed in the past.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Grogo View Post
    If CC is not required why the hell do we even have them, they should be used and it adds another dimension as there can be skilled involved and some sacrifice for team.
    Raids + pvp + occasionally CMs.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Senka View Post
    I'm very curious about what "defined roles" you believe existed in the past.
    If you were a priest in vanilla you healed. Warriors tanked. There was such a thing as a hybrid tax.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Sumatran View Post
    Stop trying to fuck with threat. Trying to manage threat is NOT FUN. Its not fun as a dps to have to throttle, its not fun as a tank to have to hold threat and mitigate/position. Stop the bullshit.
    I suspects for you it is not fun because some people just do not want to be bothered with skill. Do not want to sound like a dick but if you want to tank, having some basic skills isnt a bad thing. You are either a tank or you are a poser, same goes for all classes with their own skills. The bullshit is coming from you bro, it isnt a hard concept but it is an important one.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Grogo View Post
    So raiding is more or less ok, could use some tweaks but I am not going to bitch about that right now.

    Disregard raiding for a moment, the other meat of the game is spoiled. 5 mans are ridiculously easy, need to tuned harder for sure. Same with questing. Both offer no challenge at all and it really puts me off. Trades and economy is not great either. Some clear improvements would be nice.

    I would like if Blizzard would commit to:

    1. Upping difficulty level in 5 man dungeons, bring back CC as well, meaning you have to use it to get through it.

    2. I do not like the way talents are done, ok there, I said it. I miss trees and if you cant bring those back try something better than the current.

    3. Threat needs to be a thing again.

    4. The classes are all the same now. Was defined roles so bad before? I say that was awesome.

    You know what is funny? Blizz plans to lower dps numbers and that in itself might be something I might re-sub for. That and harder quest/5 man content.

    "Current Raiding tier is fine, old, outdated, heroics released on patch 3 tiers ago are too easy."

    That being said, maybe they missed the mark of cc requirement. I think the biggest change that attributed to all this was tanks survivability scaling with incoming damage (ie vengeance) which meant less cc = more dps, more survivability, and faster runs.

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