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  1. #1261
    Short answer: Because men are men and women are men sans reason and accountability.

  2. #1262
    Quote Originally Posted by Laraven View Post
    Oh my. Just stop. Most women don't even have normal cycles to start with. And if you think women spend time taking our temperatures and monitoring our cervical mucus you're not being very realistic. This is just too much. I will forget you suggested such a silly thing if you stop trying to say it is a liable method for birth control, or even a realistic tool to go by. Because it's not, never was and never will be.

    And why must a women make ANY decisions once she becomes pregnant? She shouldn't have to. And if she simply does nothing, then what? The man gets to "get off" on any responsibility? Love how you guys think. Please form a group together. Ware colored bracelets or tattoo so we can stay clear of you from the start.

    Ohh damn Jessica, I was so drunk last night, I think I slept with a "blue bracelet".

    How could you Chrissy? Better get the morning after pill, you know he ain't gonna be around.
    So your argument is responsibility is hard, and that he expects too much from women when it comes to actually controlling their bodies.

    Geez after all that feminism nonsense I hear you just completely shot it down.

  3. #1263
    Immortal Manakin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KNKA View Post
    There's been cases where women have suffered because of paperwork due to the limits. That's what I want to prevent.
    Paperwork due to limits?

    I'm not sure i understand, do you mean, delayed due to processing the abortion?

    And if so, exceptions are commonly made, we're talking of second trimester abortions at the most here; Most jurisdictions allow that, especially so in the U.K.

    But if you find that's not the case in certain areas, i support that notion.

    Detailing when the fetus meets the criteria (However that's defined) is a difficult task, but my views are within the second trimester; Anything later than that is murky bar medical necessity, or the infant being unable to survive.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jester Joe View Post
    Oh Manakin, have I told you lately that I love you.
    Quote Originally Posted by TheGravemind View Post
    The British did not play a major role in WW2

  4. #1264
    Quote Originally Posted by Thalian View Post
    After a long debate in real life regarding this issue, I have decided to change my stance on the issue. I no longer believe that any man (or woman) has a right to not be responsible for an already born child (I am still pro-choice). No more child support, but men have to take care of their kids every other week (assuming that there is nothing wrong with them or they are not criminals).


    It's a child, not a wallet.


    NOTE: Changing my views does not mean I flip flop, it means I actually think for myself... times and times against.

    You can "opt out" by choosing not to have sex.

  5. #1265
    Quote Originally Posted by Manakin View Post
    Paperwork due to limits?

    I'm not sure i understand, do you mean, delayed due to processing the abortion?
    Waiting for a decision made by someone else than the woman. Should've probably said that from the beginning. She shouldn't have to wait for someone else to decide. I very much doubt a woman would perform an abortion on a fully healthy baby if she's in no danger, it's rare that abortions even happens in the last week where it's allowed freely. It's even more rare that abortions happens in the additional time limit where you have to obtain permission for an abortion and then it's mostly because of risk to the mothers health or defects on the fetus.

    It would just make the process faster instead of delaying it until someone else has made a decision.
    Ehehehe...

  6. #1266
    Immortal Manakin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KNKA View Post
    Waiting for a decision made by someone else than the woman. Should've probably said that from the beginning. She shouldn't have to wait for someone else to decide. I very much doubt a woman would perform an abortion on a fully healthy baby if she's in no danger, it's rare that abortions even happens in the last week where it's allowed freely. It's even more rare that abortions happens in the additional time limit where you have to obtain permission for an abortion and then it's mostly because of risk to the mothers health or defects on the fetus.

    It would just make the process faster instead of delaying it until someone else has made a decision.
    That is correct, and i find it hard to disagree.

    But purely for monitoring and ensuring abuse does not occur, i'd wish for abortions approaching the limit, or at the limit, to be looked over at least.

    The vast majority of women do not abort in the late-term, or do so when nearing the end of the legally mandated time-limit; But for those that do, i'd wish for it to be overlooked by someone specialized in the area at least.

    Not to approve it, but to understand why it's being carried out so late in comparison to others; And to see if other external influences are playing a factor (Financial, emotional, ect)
    Quote Originally Posted by Jester Joe View Post
    Oh Manakin, have I told you lately that I love you.
    Quote Originally Posted by TheGravemind View Post
    The British did not play a major role in WW2

  7. #1267
    Quote Originally Posted by AeneasBK View Post
    Who said anything about fault here. We're not talking culpability we're talking RESPONSIBILITY. No wonder you're finding it hard
    Yes. She is wholly responsible for the kid being born.

    She should be wholly responsible for its care.

    Not sure what you're not understanding, here.

  8. #1268
    Quote Originally Posted by Laize View Post
    Yes. She is wholly responsible for the kid being born.

    She should be wholly responsible for its care.

    Not sure what you're not understanding, here.
    Why should she be wholly responsible for its care when the man contributed to its existence? I'm not interested in either parent pushing over their responsibility on society. If you can find someone else than society to take over the responsibility, fine, but until then, no.
    Ehehehe...

  9. #1269
    Quote Originally Posted by Laize View Post
    Yes. She is wholly responsible for the kid being born.

    She should be wholly responsible for its care.

    Not sure what you're not understanding, here.
    I'm not failing to understand anything I'm just surprised you actually think a mans responsbility to his child ends once he's wiped his cock on the sheets.
    >SIX A-BONG SIX A-BONG OLLY JOLLY IT'S SIX-A-BONG

  10. #1270
    Quote Originally Posted by KNKA View Post
    Waiting for a decision made by someone else than the woman. Should've probably said that from the beginning. She shouldn't have to wait for someone else to decide. I very much doubt a woman would perform an abortion on a fully healthy baby if she's in no danger, it's rare that abortions even happens in the last week where it's allowed freely. It's even more rare that abortions happens in the additional time limit where you have to obtain permission for an abortion and then it's because of risk to the mothers health or defects on the fetus.

    It would just make the process faster instead of delaying it until someone else has made a decision.
    Id have to say no..... im for abortion and i live in a country with some of the most loose abortion laws, everything points out to what you said being completely wrong. 31 abortion per 100 birth each year. You however dont need any therapeutic permission here for the first 16 weeks, the only limit is as 21 week + and its not even because of legal matter, the doctor institution simply wont abort someone past 21 week unless the women health is at risk, the law itself is so lose you could legally abort at any time. Most of the fully aborted fetus are healthy fetus and no one is in danger at all, they are just half of unplanned/unwanted pregnancy in the statistics of life.

    Again i am for abortion and i am not displeased in any way by my country choices, but to say that women dont perform abortion if no danger, would be very unrealistic, when its the opposite, most abortion are done for all the other reasons more than danger.
    Last edited by Ouch; 2014-02-19 at 11:25 PM.

  11. #1271
    Quote Originally Posted by Ouch View Post
    Id have to say no..... im for abortion and i live in a country with some of the most loose abortion laws, everything points out to what you said being completely wrong. 31 abortion per 100 birth each year. You however dont need any therapeutic permission here for the first 16 weeks. Most of the fully aborted fetus are healthy baby and no one is in danger at all, they are just half of unplanned/unwanted pregnancy.

    Again i am for abortion and i am not displeased in any way by my country choices, but to say that women dont perform abortion if no danger, would be very unrealistic, when its the opposite, most abortion are done for all the other reasons more than danger.
    High abortion rates sink as people learn how to practice safe sex.

    The vast majority of abortions that happens when the woman is in no danger happens before week 9. Of the remaining ones most happens before week 15, if I remember correctly. Very, very few actually happens the last week it's allowed. The abortions that are done past the freely allowed limit are done because of health risks or defects. I think it's safe to assume that there would be no abortions taking place in the 8th month of pregnancy even if it was legal, for any other reason than health reasons or defects. This would just simply easen up the delay due to paperwork.
    Last edited by KNKA; 2014-02-19 at 11:26 PM.
    Ehehehe...

  12. #1272
    Quote Originally Posted by KNKA View Post
    Why should she be wholly responsible for its care when the man contributed to its existence? I'm not interested in either parent pushing over their responsibility on society. If you can find someone else than society to take over the responsibility, fine, but until then, no.
    No, he contributed to its conception. She's the one who brought it to term. The man had no say in the matter. You cannot be held responsible for something you had no choice in.

    Hypothetical. You have a car. The engineers say it's not ready for shipment. The CEO goes ahead and ships it anyway. Months later it winds up killing a bunch of people for a defect the engineers hadn't yet worked out.

    Certainly the CEO (the one responsible for the shipment) is culpable, but do you hold the engineers responsible too? Of course not.

    Quote Originally Posted by AeneasBK View Post
    I'm not failing to understand anything I'm just surprised you actually think a mans responsbility to his child ends once he's wiped his cock on the sheets.
    And I'm surprised you think a man should be held responsible just because a woman wants to keep the kid.

    I'm surprised you think consent to sex means consent to parenthood despite the fact that this very idea is what feminist groups have been fighting against for ages.

  13. #1273
    Quote Originally Posted by KNKA View Post
    High abortion rates sink as people learn how to practice safe sex.
    Again not true at all, Women contraception use is 80% in Canada and only around 60% in the US. Yet our abortion rate is one of the highest, because the laws are loose. Abortion arent used because of dangers, not at all. Most abortion are done earlier than 16 week, because well you know if you want it or not before that. Like i said none of this has to do with risk, its people deciding not to give birth for personal reasons. They dont wait longer, because theres no reason to and its covered by universal healthcare, so why wait all the way to 21+ week and have the doctor tell you he wont risk it?

    Like i said people would logically think what you said, but its not whats happening in practice.
    Last edited by Ouch; 2014-02-19 at 11:33 PM.

  14. #1274
    Quote Originally Posted by Laize View Post
    Yes. She is wholly responsible for the kid being born.

    She should be wholly responsible for its care.

    Not sure what you're not understanding, here.
    It doesn't matter how many times you repeat this, both biological parents owe a duty of care to their child, regardless of how they feel about the child. This is to protect the most vulnerable party; the child. Withdrawing financial support in an attempt to force someone to abort a child or face destitution or perpetual reliance on the state is pretty awful. Nothing prevents you from attempting to sway the mother towards your point of view, coercion isn't permitted. Once the child is born your personal feelings towards it are moot, the child's welfare is the priority. Yes I know you're going to pull the "well if the state has a vested interest in it's welfare it should pay" thus completing this circular discussion, but once again the state does not owe the child any greater a duty of care than the rest of it's citizens unless it is the legal guardian.

  15. #1275
    Quote Originally Posted by Laize View Post
    I'm surprised you think consent to sex means consent to parenthood despite the fact that this very idea is what feminist groups have been fighting against for ages.
    *shrug* I'm not a feminist group. I'm pretty sure I'm not the only person that was taught that if you have sex with someone you are accepting the consequences of that action, regardless of what they are. Were you really brought up by your parents to believe that you can fuck anyone you like and once you're done it isn't you're responsibility any more? Serious question.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowmelded View Post
    It doesn't matter how many times you repeat this, both biological parents owe a duty of care to their child, regardless of how they feel about the child. This is to protect the most vulnerable party; the child. Withdrawing financial support in an attempt to force someone to abort a child or face destitution or perpetual reliance on the state is pretty awful. Nothing prevents you from attempting to sway the mother towards your point of view, coercion isn't permitted. Once the child is born your personal feelings towards it are moot, the child's welfare is the priority. Yes I know you're going to pull the "well if the state has a vested interest in it's welfare it should pay" thus completing this circular discussion, but once again the state does not owe the child any greater a duty of care than the rest of it's citizens unless it is the legal guardian.
    Dude the answer to this thread was on page 2 lol. The rest of this is just boredom manifest.

    http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...1#post25425319
    >SIX A-BONG SIX A-BONG OLLY JOLLY IT'S SIX-A-BONG

  16. #1276
    Quote Originally Posted by AeneasBK View Post

    Dude the answer to this thread was on page 2 lol. The rest of this is just boredom manifest.
    Lol I know, I'm fairly bored as well :P Also surprised by how many people get so venomous when promoting Men's Rights.

  17. #1277
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowmelded View Post
    Lol I know, I'm fairly bored as well :P Also surprised by how many people get so venomous when promoting Men's Rights.
    ITS TOTALLY UNFAIR! THE DECK IS STACKED AGAINST US! I MEAN HOW MANY WOMEN ARE IN THE ARMY HUH? HUH??!!

    Amidointirite?
    >SIX A-BONG SIX A-BONG OLLY JOLLY IT'S SIX-A-BONG

  18. #1278
    Quote Originally Posted by AeneasBK View Post
    ITS TOTALLY UNFAIR! THE DECK IS STACKED AGAINST US! I MEAN HOW MANY WOMEN ARE IN THE ARMY HUH? HUH??!!

    Amidointirite?
    Needs more insinuations that women aren't operating in good faith.

  19. #1279
    The Patient Laraven's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by badzerath View Post
    So your argument is responsibility is hard, and that he expects too much from women when it comes to actually controlling their bodies.

    Geez after all that feminism nonsense I hear you just completely shot it down.
    When you start icing down your balls to lower your potency, I will start checking my cervix for mucus and taking my temp daily. Deal?

  20. #1280
    Quote Originally Posted by Laraven View Post
    When you start icing down your balls to lower your potency, I will start checking my cervix for mucus and taking my temp daily. Deal?
    I don't think even doing that would be a certain way to check it.
    Ehehehe...

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