Feminism vs Femininity

[Nayelie]

I saw some blog or Pintrest post or something the other day that I don't remember much about other than it had one sentence of Feminism vs. Femininity.

For some reason, that stuck with me. I think there is a real difference between the two. Feminism being more of what you see in the media. Those women who disagree with letting a man get the door for them. But they have done wonders on getting more women in the work place. Femininity being more traditional, domesticated and such.

I am wondering what thoughts people can contribute to the topic. Is one more valuable than the other? More desirable? Does it matter? What can either type of woman do to improve themselves?

[KrazyK923]

As a gay man, I might have the least to add to the subject, as I'm not of the gender nor interested in it, but I would have to say I think your/their definition for femininity is flawed. I don't think it talks about the role of a woman in a society at all, femininity to me comes off more as how a woman chooses to act. And I don't mean as a house wife, but how she holds herself. What she values. And there's no right answer.

There might be values that society has deemed are more important than others, but in actuality, I think its wholly a subjective topic that depends solely on the person.

I can speak to masculinity, since I am both a man and attracted to them. A "traditional" version of masculinity to me smacks of that stereotypical football player type, a brute who thinks with their muscle rather than their brain. And I personally cannot stand that type of person.

[Deleted]

As an egalitarian, I don't agree with feminism.

Femininity and masculinity are both overrated. But I think they are both necessary for human reproduction. It appears that women are physically attracted to masculine males when they are fertile. I'm gay I wouldn't know. All I can say is, be a decent human being, be kind and easy going. Those are valuable traits.

[Deleted]

What is there to discuss? Let people be who they want to be.

[obdigore]

I'm not sure there needs to be a distinction?

A woman can wear nice looking clothes and have wonderful hair and a fabulous scent and still have opinions and want to be treated as an equal.

Or maybe I'm just completely missing the point?

[MMOmaxi]

Femininity is about being feminine. That is, exhibiting traits traditionally associated with female gender role in society. Nurturing traits in the positive sense. Submissive traits if you want to be negative. Femininity is not something that needs justification or explanation. It is not an ideology, but rather something that just exists.

Feminism is about going against tradition and campaigning for gender role changes. It is an ideology, in the sense that it exists to provide justification for forcing your opinions upon others, all the way up to courts of law. I do not feel feminism is justified outside of societies where women are well and truly oppressed. Most countries where feminism is actively practiced and campaigned for are not these kinds of societies.

[Deleted]

Feminism is about going against tradition and campaigning for gender role changes. It is an ideology, in the sense that it exists to provide justification for forcing your opinions upon others, all the way up to courts of law. I do not feel feminism is justified outside of societies where women are well and truly oppressed. Most countries where feminism is actively practiced and campaigned for are not these kinds of societies.

Still have some valid points even in western societies but at a large I don't see the necessicity for feminnism anymore.

[MMOmaxi]

I personally don't really see the "traditional" concept of a docile, passive and submissive woman as an example of femininity but rather meekness. Is a Queen, female PM, female General, CEO, Headmistress, etc. etc. any less feminine because they are in charge, in command, and making big decisions? Is a female police officer or soldier any less feminine cause she is willing to risk her life to defend her people and country? I personally say femininity is exclusive of this. There is some idea amongst traditionalists that it's all or nothing, either you are a delicate little darling on a fainting couch or you aren't feminine and I personally find that to be bullshit. Self-sufficiency, education, audacity, drive and strength are all qualities women and men strive for, not to define themselves but rather to improve themselves and compete in an equal opportunity world. What men desire in a woman is arguably based on their own personal set of values. I really don't like how feminists try to speak on behalf of all of us though and lambaste anyone who disagrees with their ideology rigidly, but without a sexual revolution I don't think we'd ever see equality, especially in a more religious nations like the US and especially in the Middle East and Asia.

** Tries to imagine a policewoman cuffing a criminal in a "feminine" way and failing **

Great, now i need to get George Michael out of my head

[Nayelie]

Femininity is about being feminine. That is, exhibiting traits traditionally associated with female gender role in society. Nurturing traits in the positive sense. Submissive traits if you want to be negative. Femininity is not something that needs justification or explanation. It is not an ideology, but rather something that just exists.

Feminism is about going against tradition and campaigning for gender role changes. It is an ideology, in the sense that it exists to provide justification for forcing your opinions upon others, all the way up to courts of law. I do not feel feminism is justified outside of societies where women are well and truly oppressed. Most countries where feminism is actively practiced and campaigned for are not these kinds of societies.

This is what I was trying to pinpoint, but I am tired.

So is Feminism the way society should turn? It seems to be popular enough. But I see a lot of value in femininity, with the standard gender role coming to place.

Slightly off topic, do gender roles matter anymore?

[Prokne]

You can be feminine and a feminist at the same time. The whole point of feminism is to make feminine traits equal to masculine traits, not to replace them with masculine traits.

[MMOmaxi]

The role of a mother (both mother of babies and mother of nations) is feminine without being submissive.
However, even then, the relationship is no straight dominance of mother over child, as interests of a mother are defined by interests of a child.

[Nayelie]

I personally don't really see the "traditional" concept of a docile, passive and submissive woman as an example of femininity but rather meekness. Is a Queen, female PM, female General, CEO, Headmistress, etc. etc. any less feminine because they are in charge, in command, and making big decisions? Is a female police officer or soldier any less feminine cause she is willing to risk her life to defend her people and country? I personally say femininity is exclusive of this. There is some idea amongst traditionalists that it's all or nothing, either you are a delicate little darling on a fainting couch or you aren't feminine and I personally find that to be bullshit. Self-sufficiency, education, audacity, drive and strength are all qualities women and men strive for, not to define themselves but rather to improve themselves and compete in an equal opportunity world. What men desire in a woman is arguably based on their own personal set of values. I really don't like how feminists try to speak on behalf of all of us though and lambaste anyone who disagrees with their ideology rigidly, but without a sexual revolution I don't think we'd ever see equality, especially in a more religious nations like the US and especially in the Middle East and Asia.

I don't see a well-educated woman as less feminine. I'd probably say that the anti-femininity is rather a woman who chooses to disregard her womanhood in a sense. Advertisement have been turning women less and less feminine, painting these shapeless models with the body of a boy as opposed to a woman.

[MMOmaxi]

This is what I was trying to pinpoint, but I am tired.

So is Feminism the way society should turn? It seems to be popular enough. But I see a lot of value in femininity, with the standard gender role coming to place.

Slightly off topic, do gender roles matter anymore?

As long as genders are factually different, gender specialisation will have evolutionary value and therefore gender roles will matter.
That being said, gender roles have already transformed quite a bit, and we should expect to see even more transformations later down the line.
I do not expect us to ever really get rid of in-vivo birth cycle, though. So at least that bit of gender difference (and everything it entails) will remain.

Feminism is not an ideology that builds anything, so if practiced to the extent of "society should turn" would actually be harmful. Feminism only fights for female rights, it does not answer the question of what a woman should do with her rights once these are achieved.

[KrazyK923]

Slightly off topic, do gender roles matter anymore?

"Matter" in the sense that society still thinks they do and should.

[Prokne]

Feminism is not an ideology that builds anything, so if practiced to the extent of "society should turn" would actually be harmful. Feminism only fights for female rights, it does not answer the question of what a woman should do with her rights once these are achieved.

Whatever she wants?

BTW Feminism does actually build things even if indirectly. By opening up the thoughts and ideas of half of the population to consideration you get a lot more potential for whatever you want to do.

[Steampunk]

I would have to say I think your/their definition for femininity is flawed. I don't think it talks about the role of a woman in a society at all, femininity to me comes off more as how a woman chooses to act. And I don't mean as a house wife, but how she holds herself. What she values. And there's no right answer.

From Femininity entry on Wikipedia, "Femininity is socially constructed, but made up of both socially-defined and biologically-created factors."

Good points in your post, but realistically, the word itself is relating to a woman/girl's trope-centric role in society.

I saw some blog or Pintrest post or something the other day that I don't remember much about other than it had one sentence of Feminism vs. Femininity.

For some reason, that stuck with me. I think there is a real difference between the two. Feminism being more of what you see in the media. Those women who disagree with letting a man get the door for them. But they have done wonders on getting more women in the work place. Femininity being more traditional, domesticated and such.

I am wondering what thoughts people can contribute to the topic. Is one more valuable than the other? More desirable? Does it matter? What can either type of woman do to improve themselves?

You do not understand Feminism, but you're not too far off of Femininity, in regards to the social trope forged for women.

I can't wait for egalitarianism to just *be* the way things are. But we are lifetimes off from that happening, when we still stereotype and misunderstand what Feminism is.

I'm a Feminist man, I'm married with many female friends, I have a beard, I teach firearms to both agencies and the private sector, I play shooters and my house is in shambles. Obviously, I'm not dainty by any stretch of the imagination.

I continue to "get the door", pull out chairs, help over snowhills, etc. because appreciating someone being a decent sociable person and being a Feminist are not mutually exclusive. Out of all the years I've continued to do these things, I've never once had a person in a business or social setting, who was a Feminist, disagree with having manners and respect.

[KrazyK923]

From Femininity entry on Wikipedia, "Femininity is socially constructed, but made up of both socially-defined and biologically-created factors."

Good points in your post, but realistically, the word itself is relating to a woman/girl's trope-centric role in society.

Ahh well...what do them book-learnin' folk know anyway!?

[Nayelie]

Disregard womanhood as in? Not having children or?
Lol I was under the impression that the "twiggy" fad obsession had run its course

Not having children can be a part of it. It is in our biology as women to bear children. So to deprive our body of that function can be a topic of discussion. And the "twiggy" fad is in full force in my observations still. Makes me sick honestly. They don't look like a lady.

I saw a picture of some runway models wearing these weird jeweled masks that were completely hiding their faces. Just a slate of jewels. Imagine Slenderman, but with shiny crystals. Seemed inhuman and I honestly thought it was a bit degrading to those women. They have jobs being pretty, yet they had to hide their faces for the sake of "fashion"

[MMOmaxi]

Whatever she wants?

BTW Feminism does actually build things even if indirectly. By opening up the thoughts and ideas of half of the population to consideration you get a lot more potential for whatever you want to do.

Where "Whatever she wants" begins, ideology ends. Feminism doesn't concern itself with anything that comes after the point of female rights being recognised.

Pulling out the weeds is not the same as planting flowers. Feminism is pulling out the weeds.
Occasionally along with flowers.

[Nayelie]

From Femininity entry on Wikipedia, "Femininity is socially constructed, but made up of both socially-defined and biologically-created factors."

Good points in your post, but realistically, the word itself is relating to a woman/girl's trope-centric role in society.



You do not understand Feminism, but you're not too far off of Femininity, in regards to the social trope forged for women.

I can't wait for egalitarianism to just *be* the way things are. But we are lifetimes off from that happening, when we still stereotype and misunderstand what Feminism is.

I'm a Feminist man, I'm married with many female friends, I have a beard, I teach firearms to both agencies and the private sector, I play shooters and my house is in shambles. Obviously, I'm not dainty by any stretch of the imagination.

I continue to "get the door", pull out chairs, help over snowhills, etc. because appreciating someone being a decent sociable person and being a Feminist are not mutually exclusive. Out of all the years I've continued to do these things, I've never once had a person in a business or social setting, who was a Feminist, disagree with having manners and respect.

Oh I never meant they are exclusive of each other! I don't see it as a black and white topic, more of a large sliding scale, if that makes sense.