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  1. #81
    The Lightbringer judgementofantonidas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nivis View Post
    Uhm...if a player really wants to move to a raiding guild, they will. Nobody in a social guild can prevent them from doing so.
    If those good players don't want to join a raiding guild, however, maybe the raiding guild just isn't what they are looking for.
    right. do you even read what you are writing?





    There is no bad RNG only bad L2P

  2. #82
    Quote Originally Posted by Puri View Post
    Well, I think the problem lies solely within "Money flow".

    We also were bored in our guild, and decided to level chars on another realm last week. Obviously at first we joined a level 25 guild.
    But we were enough people to found a new guild, and started leveling it. Everything would be fine and as it should be - friends together in a guild.
    But then we realized, we could use one of the guild-invite addons to simply invite everyone who was guildless to make gold for us. Not doing so we be dumb, since it is a win-win for everyone - we get money and guild xp, they get guild perks they would not have otherwise. Most would reject at low guild levels, but as the guild level increased more and more would accept.

    So right now we have 200 players in our now level 15 guild, growing every day. The income we make is being distributed between us friends.

    If this money perk would not exist, we never would have invited them and simply would be such a "social alt guild" as you have described.
    Agreed 100% - remove "Money Flow" and all will be well. Sure, there will be some guilds that kick everyone but their friends if this occurs, but you wouldn't want to be in a guild like that anyway. "Money Flow" is NOT needed..."but, but guild repairs for raiding??" Raiding guilds have many, many other ways (that are more lucrative) to make gold for repairs/consumables/etc. - it just actually takes work.

  3. #83
    Quote Originally Posted by Whales96 View Post
    Why make the perks baseline when they can just remove them entirely? The boosts are unnecessary and are too good for how little effort it takes to get them. I'd much rather the perks be gone.

    - - - Updated - - -



    People aren't getting used. People get bent out of shape whenever someone else is getting some kind of gain over them, it's crazy. But in a level 25 guild scenario, there is no parasite. You get perks, they get gold. Everybody wins. You don't even have to do anything specific for the perks, you get them automatically.
    I was stating with vanomos comment if people actually specifically make guilds to gain gold, in which there are people who do. Was not stating that people who do so are evil people feeding off other players.

  4. #84
    The Lightbringer judgementofantonidas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by azurrei View Post
    Agreed 100% - remove "Money Flow" and all will be well. Sure, there will be some guilds that kick everyone but their friends if this occurs, but you wouldn't want to be in a guild like that anyway. "Money Flow" is NOT needed..."but, but guild repairs for raiding??" Raiding guilds have many, many other ways (that are more lucrative) to make gold for repairs/consumables/etc. - it just actually takes work.
    have to disagree. cash flow should be increased to be a useful amount then we would not be required to recruit so many freinds and family.





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  5. #85
    I am Murloc! Pendra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by judgementofantonidas View Post
    right. do you even read what you are writing?
    Care to elaborate where I'm wrong? How can you keep a human being with a free will from doing something if they want to - in a game?
    They might lessen the incentive to move to another guild. But that's it.

    Also, it's simply not everyone's desire to move to a raiding guild at all. If this player happens to be very good...well, doesn't change that fact in the slightest.

  6. #86
    Perks are nice things that reward people for not guildhopping and being in guilds. I do think they need to give every player a non-aoe rez though.

  7. #87
    Guild perks were fun to get the first time as we leveled our first guild. But I agree on the mandatory feeling. I would prefer them to be purely aesthetic and such. Standards pets mounts. Maybe xmog gear. But loose the exp and gold bonuses.

  8. #88
    Quote Originally Posted by delus View Post
    Perks are nice things that reward people for not guildhopping and being in guilds. I do think they need to give every player a non-aoe rez though.
    Truly it feels as though healers should just have it baseline honestly...

  9. #89
    Mass res is getting subtly downplayed in WoD, albeit unintentionally. Watcher said when you res in a raid (dungeons too?) you'll immediately res alive at the start of the instance or the zone-in point at least, cutting out the loading screens. This means if you're raiding with a bunch of folks you don't have that buffer anymore to tell them you're ressing, and often there will be that "one guy", lol. But it's not so bad. Without loading screens, runback times should be faster, especially for those who take awhile to load, and you can cover a lot of distance in the 15 seconds it takes to res after an invisibility and encounter reset.

    As for the rest of the perks, I think they've given serious consideration to Cash Flow, but they did achieve in what they wanted in getting everyone to join guilds so players are more socially immersed. You can disable guild chat just by right clicking the chat tab and unchecking guild.

  10. #90
    I join lvl 25 guilds on my horde alts for the perks then turn guild chat off. It's 99.999% jackholes spamming "Grats on your achievement!" for [Level 10] and [I caught my first fish].

  11. #91
    Quote Originally Posted by SwizzleTweets View Post
    I think the Guild Perks backfired because;

    What is the point of Guild Perks if they do not amplify a community (guild) in a social game?
    For the majority, Guild is = perks, no longer a community to find equal players to socialize with.

    So in the end, more guilds that are less social in a social game, for the sake of perks (+ gold income for some, through a guild perk)


    My suggestion would be, why not just make all the Guild Perks baseline for a character with or without a guild.
    Every guild has all the perks if it's been around for long. If not, those people wanting those perks just join a perk guild.

    So what does it really do in the end? I would say it backfired.

    Guild reinforcements should be to make things better for the guild community.
    It would be enough to have 1 function that would be gold income to the guild vault for repairs,
    the rest could be player bonuses baselined instead of perks for guild.


    Am I the only one who feels people become more self-centering and little troublesome about the guild they're in, it's more important and easier choice to just be in a guild for perks? What if guild perks are baseline for a guildless player, what would that player choose to do? Would it be easier for the rest of us to find a good community without looking through 1000 very little social guilds that are there for one thing, the perks or for gold income by members?
    you answer your own questions and you contradict yourself several times

  12. #92
    Perks are just another grind.

  13. #93
    Quote Originally Posted by SwizzleTweets View Post
    I think the Guild Perks backfired because;

    What is the point of Guild Perks if they do not amplify a community (guild) in a social game?
    For the majority, Guild is = perks, no longer a community to find equal players to socialize with.
    I agree.

    Quote Originally Posted by SwizzleTweets View Post
    My suggestion would be, why not just make all the Guild Perks baseline for a character with or without a guild.
    No. If they're baseline they're not perks any more. I agree that guild levels should go, but I would still like to see guild perks tied to guild rep and/or guild activities. For example, if you want the Firelands guild pet then you should complete a Firelands run with your guild. If you want the mobile banking perk you should reach Honored with your guild. That way they're still perks and you still earn them through your guild, but now you don't have to worry about whether your guild is new or old. You get perks from your guild by contributing to it.
    Quote Originally Posted by CandyCotton Marshmallows View Post
    People need to get over the gear color (and themselves). It doesn't matter, and it shouldn't matter what other players have either. Worry about your damn self. Live your life by that. If you want to concern yourself with someone else, then worry about HELPING them, not putting them down or making sure you stand out as better than them.
    Maybe the game would be better with more low DPS nice guys and fewer high DPS jerks? -- Ghostcrawler, Twitter, 6/29/13

  14. #94
    Quote Originally Posted by Whales96 View Post
    Perks were an extra nail in the social atmosphere of World of Warcraft. The boosts were never needed before, and I don't see anything necessary about them now. If there were no perks, people would be joining guilds because they want to be in that guild, not because it's more optimal to level with the perks. That's just not the kind of choice people should have to make in this game. Have you ever been inside a level 25 feeder guild? Nobody talks. They're guilds in name only.
    I've addressed this multiple times.

    People who join guilds just for perks are not the sort who would have joined for socialization. they're not the sort that social close-knit guilds want as members. These people don't automaticly become social paragons without perks.

    "not needed" is irrelevant. The boosts are here and you don't just delete or remove something that is not causing any actual trouble...as i have said twice explicitly... there is no major disadvantage in them existing but there is a loss in them being removed that does not outweigh the benefit of Just Letting Them Be.

    Those who actually join guilds and interact because they treasure that more, will do so and still benefit from the perks. People who want ot join guilds because they want to be in guilds are going to join guilds. perks or no. People who join because of the perks...thats no skin off anyone's back. Social guilds worth their salt wont want such people and alt grind guilds that want them will benefit more. as for guilds that are guilds in name only....Why be bothered? how are they affecting us? What does it matter what others choose to do in their own time that affects us in No manner or way?

    both are benefiting in their own way. Both have a separate player markets with different interests and the option to cross over in either direction is there.

  15. #95
    The Lightbringer judgementofantonidas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nivis View Post
    Care to elaborate where I'm wrong? How can you keep a human being with a free will from doing something if they want to - in a game?
    They might lessen the incentive to move to another guild. But that's it.

    Also, it's simply not everyone's desire to move to a raiding guild at all. If this player happens to be very good...well, doesn't change that fact in the slightest.

    Players seek their level. "but i have a lot of friends here" makes them hesitant to do so. And I use the term friend loosely, as if they were truly their friend, moving to a group of more skilled players would not change that.





    There is no bad RNG only bad L2P

  16. #96
    I actually was the same for awhile, I hopped around big guilds to see if they were active and socialized. All of them were on PvP servers and none of them really talked.
    So I just recently switched to a PvE server, first big guild that I got invited to (was level 25 also, which I don't mind) was very social. I'm surprised I already made friends, got some people to do dungeons with. It just makes the game more interesting when there are people to talk to.
    I have tried small guilds as well, barely any of them talked unless they were just a group of RL friends.

    If they removed perks or just re-made them I would be fine. As long as the people in the guild would actually chat I will be happy.

  17. #97
    Perks were great at the beginning. When in a guild that was growing together. Now, if a guild wants to start new, nobody wants to join it. So the GM and those who co-found it have to level it alone which can take a while. This takes the social aspect out of it, as these few players will be alone for a while leveling the guild. I think now that we are so far from the release of the guild perks, either leveling needs to increase, or be gone. Nobody joins guilds that don't have the fast track II perk. The system is hindering the start up of guilds rather than rewarding the people in them.

  18. #98
    I am Murloc! Pendra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by judgementofantonidas View Post
    Players seek their level. "but i have a lot of friends here" makes them hesitant to do so. And I use the term friend loosely, as if they were truly their friend, moving to a group of more skilled players would not change that.
    So? Let them hestitate - if they value raiding enough in the end, they eventually will move. If not, they won't.
    It's almost like you think you are entitled to tell good players what they should be doing. If you struggle to find skilled players at the same time...well, bad luck I guess?

  19. #99
    Quote Originally Posted by judgementofantonidas View Post
    Players seek their level. "but i have a lot of friends here" makes them hesitant to do so. And I use the term friend loosely, as if they were truly their friend, moving to a group of more skilled players would not change that.
    That depends. Moving to the group of "more skilled players." usually means "We can't play together anymore and thus our friendship is no longer a mutually beneficial arrangement."

    But you're working under the assumption that there is something wrong with not wanting to be part of a raiding guild. Raiding guilds do a pretty good job of making themselves uninviting places without any outside influence from a casual guild. As someone who has been a part of raiding guilds for many years I can honestly say that there isn't really anything appealing about them beyond the promise of shiny pixels with bigger numbers. Raid guilds are a pretty parasitic relationship in favor of the guild. Everything is for the glory of the guild at the expense of the individual player, and quite frankly after doing that for the better part of a decade I can say it's really not worth it. Being a part of a raiding guild is a completely unappealing and taxing endeavor for very little in return. And my outlook on raiding guilds may be bleak, but it comes from experience.

    Lets face it, if a person doesn't want to be in a raiding guild they're not going to be in one, and if you're actively trying to poach a player and they say no, it's not because of the influence of their guild so much as your bill of goods isn't nearly as good as you think it is. A casual guild actually offers a player perks for no cost, what does a raiding guild really offer a player? "Here, bash your skull against this content for hours every week for the chance at a shiny carrot. You're expected to be on at this time every week and if you are on you're only allowed to do these guild sanctioned activities whether you want to or not." It doesn't take a casual guild's influence to make that sound like a less than stellar experience.

  20. #100
    Quote Originally Posted by Torgent View Post
    Perks were great at the beginning. When in a guild that was growing together. Now, if a guild wants to start new, nobody wants to join it. So the GM and those who co-found it have to level it alone which can take a while.
    To be fair, they have drastically nerfed the amount of time it takes to level a guild. I single handedly took a guild up about three levels in a little under a month just by questing on alts. That wasn't even feasible back in the day. I imagine that with at least 3 players you can level a guild really fast by maxing out guild dungeon challenges on a weekly basis. If you guys grind out dailies on top of that your guild will be 25 before you know it. I still think the system sucks, but I don't think that this is such a show stopper any more. It's more annoying than anything else.
    Quote Originally Posted by CandyCotton Marshmallows View Post
    People need to get over the gear color (and themselves). It doesn't matter, and it shouldn't matter what other players have either. Worry about your damn self. Live your life by that. If you want to concern yourself with someone else, then worry about HELPING them, not putting them down or making sure you stand out as better than them.
    Maybe the game would be better with more low DPS nice guys and fewer high DPS jerks? -- Ghostcrawler, Twitter, 6/29/13

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