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  1. #41
    Titan Kelimbror's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Whales96 View Post
    Blizzard has gone past the point of providing help. They don't provide help, they make things so easy that you don't need help. And if a new player isn't even willing to do a simple google search to improve their play, then they should suffer the consequences.
    This is why you aren't a game designer or at least wouldn't be a very good one. It is a failure of the game if you have to do a 'simple google search' to learn how core functions of the game work. Your view is fallacious.
    BAD WOLF

  2. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by Kelimbror View Post
    This is plain ignorant to state. I don't mean that as an insult, I mean it's literally ignorant of the knowledge out there to think this is remotely true. Rude stereotyping aside, the game play from angry birds to WoW isn't remotely similar so there's no logical connection to say that Blizzard are somehow catering to people who play that game. Additionally you show little knowledge for how overwhelming MMOs are to people who are new to the genre and just a specific game in the genre.

    New players do need help. It's not enjoyable nor a measure of worth to be able to figure out where things are in the menus or what features a game has. That doesn't somehow make you a better player. Do you expect surgeons in our modern day of knowledge to just 'get in there and figure it out'? Or would it be preferable for them to get detailed instruction on what they do. (inb4 lol, wow isn't brain surgery) Hrm...also shows no knowledge of the actual game design, since it incorporates knowledge of physics...speed/angles, etc. I guess you don't consider thinking to be challenging?
    You think Angry Birds is a science physics game? Ok then....

    So, obviously you don't know about in game hints like the ones we used to have? I think those were more than enough.

    I'm not saying it makes me a better player. But there is really only 1 button for options. And Blizzard is catering to that generation because they know people want easy and simple gameplay and they know that gives them money.
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  3. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by Kelimbror View Post
    This is why you aren't a game designer or at least wouldn't be a very good one. It is a failure of the game if you have to do a 'simple google search' to learn how core functions of the game work. Your view is fallacious.
    You don't have to do any kind of search to learn the core values of the game. I was talking about the eventual mastery of your character. What core values of the game do you believe are too complicated and need explaining? Because I can't think of any.

  4. #44
    I'm not trying to kick a nostalgia storm up or anything, I was 9-years-old when wow came out. I've never been, nor am I a special snowflake. I wish I would have been a little older when vanilla came out so I could go back and get some of the cool stuff. Blizzard never thought wow would turn into what it is today, maybe if they went back and touched up on what they didn't do they could accomplish more. When you progress to the next realm, your character gets saved as well. So say you got bored in MoP you could search for some people and go back and do some Vanilla content, or TBC or whatever! So you had more to do! I also thought of the level scaling they tried, but with talents and things changed, I don't think it would even be close to the same. The only problems I saw with my ideas was 1. Population 2. People being mad over their characters. There's a lot of people that are nostalgic though, and I think old servers would bring them back/attract new people. I do appreciate the criticism, but please if you're going to call me an idiot, explain. Thanks for the responses.

  5. #45
    Herald of the Titans Santti's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Whales96 View Post
    You don't have to do any kind of search to learn the core values of the game. I was talking about the eventual mastery of your character. What core values of the game do you believe are too complicated and need explaining? Because I can't think of any.
    You aren't thinking from the point of view of a new player.

  6. #46
    Stood in the Fire Kagecamia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ngc2440 View Post
    That is due to their motto "bring the player not the class", the opposite than what it used to be. Don't delude yourself into thinking mage tanking was hard unless you seriously think hitting one button every time a boss gets a buff is "hard".
    One button? Was it just that? I thought it was a bit more than that.
    I vaguely recall a boss that locks tanked in SSC. It was something about fire resistance for locks or something.

    Then again alot of people complain that Invocation is a hard buff to keep up. I merely send them a link to an in depth destruction guide in cata. :P

  7. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by Santti View Post
    You aren't thinking from the point of view of a new player.
    I know how a new player feels. All these games I have played it feels way too overwhelming at the start cause you don't know anything. But I already know that not 2 days will pass until I know what's happening in this game. Introducing a new player with so much help makes them think you don't have to do anything to be good at this game. Which sadly is the truth.
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  8. #48
    Stood in the Fire Kagecamia's Avatar
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    Funny how the title is called "A Better World of Warcraft" and only two pages in we are already ripping at each other.

    Not sure if the sign of the current game or a broad overview of society.

    Either one we are fucked :P

  9. #49
    The Lightbringer
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xilurm View Post
    Wow will become easier and simplistic with each expansion.
    Heroic Ragnaros is much simpler than classic Ragnaros, amirite?

    BC/LK raider ('07-'10)

  10. #50
    Herald of the Titans Santti's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xilurm View Post
    I know how a new player feels. All these games I have played it feels way too overwhelming at the start cause you don't know anything. But I already know that not 2 days will pass until I know what's happening in this game. Introducing a new player with so much help makes them think you don't have to do anything to be good at this game. Which sadly is the truth.
    What? That makes no sense at all.

  11. #51
    Yeah man raiding bosses that had between 0 and 2 mechanics was hard back in the day, I sometimes had to change the target of my frostbolt spam. Bosses with a dozen mechanics are so much more boring and easy, especially with more complex priority rotations nowadays. Besides anybody new to it that wants help is arrogant.

    This is good stuff.

  12. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by Tomana View Post
    Heroic Ragnaros is much simpler than classic Ragnaros, amirite?
    How fast was HC Rag killed, and how much preparation needed for it?
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  13. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by Santti View Post
    You aren't thinking from the point of view of a new player.
    Feel free to correct me. I would really like to know what it is they need so much help with.

  14. #54
    Titan Kelimbror's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xilurm View Post
    You think Angry Birds is a science physics game? Ok then....

    So, obviously you don't know about in game hints like the ones we used to have? I think those were more than enough
    You don't understand that the concept of Angry Birds isn't to 'push one button' which in itself is completely inaccurate anyways, but yeah...you don't get how trajectories and understanding force relations to objects in a game world (game physics, hello) is what is going on in your brain behind the scenes? So essentially you are being intentionally wrong, in order to facilitate WoW bashing. I'm not surprised.
    Quote Originally Posted by Whales96 View Post
    You don't have to do any kind of search to learn the core values of the game. I was talking about the eventual mastery of your character. What core values of the game do you believe are too complicated and need explaining? Because I can't think of any.
    I don't expect you to be able to put yourself in anyone else's shoes from the high horse you are on, but let's try anyways! While we figured it out for ourselves, or let the smarter people do it for us, a game isn't succeeding if it isn't communicating the rules and tools it operates by. In theory, you can't even play a game if you don't know the rules. You aren't playing checkers if you don't know how to move the pieces. Chess is only chess because of how the pieces can move.

    There's a reason most new games have tutorial modes that include even the simplest things as wasd control schemes because they have to assume the lowest common denominator which is someone who has never, ever played a game before. Being forced through this as an experienced player is horrible, which is why better games have optional tutorials. WoW has failed at providing adequate player instruction for years. People who complain like you do are likely people who also complain that everyone is bad in the game. Well guess what...the more intuitive the game is, the higher the capability of the LCD.

    How would you expect someone who has never played an MMO or WoW to know what a dungeon or scenario even is. How would they know where to queue for it? There's a reason leveling now provides pop ups of everything unlocked, followed by explanations when you look at these features (that glow yellow now). It is educational. Rift has even integrated video tutorials on how to use their features and game systems. It's innovative and a job well done on their part.
    BAD WOLF

  15. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by Santti View Post
    What? That makes no sense at all.
    What exactly you don't understand? I'm saying that the more help Blizz offers the more new players think that this game has any challenge.
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  16. #56
    This is a terrible idea and you should feel bad for even suggesting it.

  17. #57
    i have never understood why blizzard dont run a realm for each expansion, like 1 per region per old expansion, a vanilla, a tbc, and a wrath, they could do 6month races, and award prizes to the most geared, most progressed, most played etc, people would like that

  18. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by Kelimbror View Post
    You don't understand that the concept of Angry Birds isn't to 'push one button' which in itself is completely inaccurate anyways, but yeah...you don't get how trajectories and understanding force relations to objects in a game world (game physics, hello) is what is going on in your brain behind the scenes? So essentially you are being intentionally wrong, in order to facilitate WoW bashing. I'm not surprised.
    You are kidding right? The players can takes guesses and still hit their targets. The only people that need to worry about physics in that game are the ones who made the game. All you need to do is just swing the bird. GZ! You won!
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  19. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by Kagecamia View Post
    One button? Was it just that? I thought it was a bit more than that.
    I can only speak from a mage reference but the only difference between mage tanking and mage dpsing is having to press Spell Steal when the boss got a certain buff. One button. I don't include fire resist gear because that was nothing more than a gating mechanism and had zero impact on actual difficulty for the player.

    Then again alot of people complain that Invocation is a hard buff to keep up. I merely send them a link to an in depth destruction guide in cata.
    Hehe I hear ya on that.

  20. #60
    Herald of the Titans Santti's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xilurm View Post
    What exactly you don't understand? I'm saying that the more help Blizz offers the more new players think that this game has any challenge.
    I'm saying that still doesn't make any sense at all. I think you are on a horse way too high or something to even think this.

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