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  1. #1201
    Quote Originally Posted by silvercentric View Post
    This constant "but then we'll have to cut X tier in Y" is such a cop out to avoid addressing issues that need attention.
    It's just a convenient phrase to give the stupid masses a little perspective on what something actually takes to get implemented.
    Quote Originally Posted by Elrandir View Post
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  2. #1202
    Quote Originally Posted by Disapproval Turtle View Post
    glad it's 60 bucks, that makes purchasing a 90 non-trivial.
    I would rather level my characters but that's just me.

    if you would rather have a 90 right away that is fine, if you look at leveling a character as "work" you would need to spend many hours "working" to make it into a 90, whereas even with a minimum wage job you can earn 60 bucks in about 9 hours, you can't get a level 90 in 9 hours played time.

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    I don't like the idea of buying a 90, but tbh it's not buying your way to the finish.
    I agree that it isn't buying your way to the finish line, it's buying yourself to catch up to everyone else, and tbh who would like to start up behind everyone else in a race where you are already at an disadvantage. It doesn't change the fact that it points towards a pay to win game which most likely will kill the game, if not most of blizzards games.

    It's good that it's expensive some people will buy it, the rest just takes the one that comes with the expansion.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lyeranth View Post
    Why dont we just have thrall and Malfurion whip it out and someone can measure and then we can be done with it.

  3. #1203
    The high price is to show it's a premium feature and to shoo away casual buyers.

    If it were £20, I'd be up in arms, but at £50? That's so high it's blatantly obvious very few would buy it, and as explained if they wanted to make profit they would just set it much lower. By keeping it high it's obviously intended for people with lots of money but little time.

    (On a side note, if this price is final then, unless I'm mistaken, it'll be cheaper to just RAF yourself to even 100, ha)

  4. #1204
    Moderator MoanaLisa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by silvercentric View Post
    The Cataclysm leveling re-vamp was a on a completely different level. They changed geography, lore, quests, etc. for entire zones. This constant "but then we'll have to cut X tier in Y" is such a cop out to avoid addressing issues that need attention.
    You're picking and choosing now at some semantic level. The 1-60 revamp was for all intent and purposes a pass at improving leveling for 1-60. It proved to be more a problem than a solution to anything as nice as I thought it was the first three or four times through it. The problem with improving leveling is that whatever they do that will get old after a while too and they end up spending a lot of time on a piece of the game that is relatively unused compared to endgame. Perhaps adding content scaling to the entire game will make it more attractive to some and I expect that to happen. At the end of the day though I've seen Outland maybe 13 times since BC, Northrend eight or nine times, etc. If I have the option to skip it and it's worth it to me, I certainly will.

    Improving 1-X is an endless pit of work that will detract from what's important for most players and that's end game. Blizzard has accepted the view of many that the game starts at endgame. That's all there is to it. The other stuff is there for those who want it. For those who don't there are now options.

    Again, the mirror of 'paying to skip content' is 'paying to get to the content you want to play' which for many people will sound sensible. If you don't want to pay you don't have to. Spending tons of time over the rest of the life of the game keeping leveling content fresh is a time/resource sink that doesn't warrant the ROI. I'm quite certain that if there were a lot of people, like more than half of the game population, actively playing in 1-85 they might consider a different solution. I don't think that's true based on observation and apparently Blizzard agrees.
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  5. #1205
    MoanaLisa normally says what i was thinking and wanted to say but never wanted to invest the effort wording it. Thx Lisa!

    One thing i luv tho is when someone says something completely valid and correct it's normally looked over and ignored and people go back to targeting flawed views and comments.

    Gotta luv the internet.
    Last edited by DarkArchon; 2014-02-28 at 11:31 PM.

  6. #1206
    Quote Originally Posted by MoanaLisa View Post
    Blizzard has already learned the lesson of trying to improve the leveling content in a game as large as WoW. They don't need to go through it a second time to understand that it's not worth the effort. For what it's worth, I believe that level scaled content will be in the game sooner than later so getting into a queue for AQ may happen. I'm not sure that that will be the most popular part of leveling but I'm sure it will be fun a few times. Which is exactly the point and the problem. Many people have been through the 'leveling content' more often than they want to and no amount of 'improvement' is going to be a permanent or even enduring fix. Huge effort to do, people soak it up in a few weeks or months and here we are again. What they're doing is a perfectly rational solution which is to concentrate development on where most of the people are. You might believe that twinks are a substantial or majority percentage of PVP players. I doubt it and that doesn't even speak to whether or not PVP is something that most people do in any case.

    So yes, everyone that for years has go on about how the game starts at endgame, Blizzard agrees with you and is going to enable people to optionally make it so. It's really not as big a deal as everyone is making it out to be.
    Where in my post do I say Blizzard should re-do quests? You're missing my point entirely: leveling content doesn't have to be questing. There is tons of content Blizzard could open up to leveling players that was once 'end game content'. The content already exists.

    I also never mentioned twinking in my previous post. Low level pvp is an alternative to questing. It's horribly imbalanced for a variety of reasons that have nothing to do with twinking. More players might spend time in leveling bgs and dungeons if Blizzard made even the most basic attempt at resolving some of their issues. These aren't Cata level changes. No reworking hundreds of quests, no designing of new models, no reshaping Azeroth or creating new class abilities, just adjusting some numbers. Nothing will change about the leveling experience as long as people are willing to spend money to avoid it.

    Couldn't the bolded part of the post I quoted be true about current endgame content as well? Why should Blizzard put any effort into end game content when people are just going to get bored with it in a few months and quit playing? Blizzard should be finding ways to keep players interested in old and new content, instead of charging us to skip it.

  7. #1207
    Scarab Lord ringpriest's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dusselldorf View Post
    Just a quick quip, how can anyone say that a game that has retained *millions* of monthly paying subscribers for *over a decade* is a bad game design with a straight face?
    1) Charging players for the 'privilege' of skipping over large amounts of a content that Blizzard themselves have rendered dull, meaningless and boring is a terrible piece of game design.

    2) You're a glass half-full type, I see. Another way to describe the exact same set of events is that Blizzard has lost over 4 million paying, monthly subscribers in just three years. (A trend I fully expect to continue in a downward direction. Not that Blizzard will care, they'll still be raking in plenty of net profits from those screaming "It's not pay to win!" while they fork out ever-increasing amounts of cash to 'win'. Just never mind that WoW will be turning into an online fantasy casino instead of an MMORPG.)

  8. #1208
    Quote Originally Posted by adorich View Post
    Where in my post do I say Blizzard should re-do quests? You're missing my point entirely: leveling content doesn't have to be questing. There is tons of content Blizzard could open up to leveling players that was once 'end game content'. The content already exists.

    I also never mentioned twinking in my previous post. Low level pvp is an alternative to questing. It's horribly imbalanced for a variety of reasons that have nothing to do with twinking. More players might spend time in leveling bgs and dungeons if Blizzard made even the most basic attempt at resolving some of their issues. These aren't Cata level changes. No reworking hundreds of quests, no designing of new models, no reshaping Azeroth or creating new class abilities, just adjusting some numbers. Nothing will change about the leveling experience as long as people are willing to spend money to avoid it.

    Couldn't the bolded part of the post I quoted be true about current endgame content as well? Why should Blizzard put any effort into end game content when people are just going to get bored with it in a few months and quit playing? Blizzard should be finding ways to keep players interested in old and new content, instead of charging us to skip it.
    Blizzard already said patches will be more frequent in WoD then past expansions which is the correct response to keep people interested. Working on old zones would not keep a mass majority of people interested because it offers no satisfaction in actual progress of a character. The amount of people wanting to lvl a new toon threw reworked quests is very small and unappealing. However like Blizzard plans, releasing end game content more frequently is appealing to the majority.

  9. #1209
    Blademaster
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    what are you haters crying for? its another man/womans money and choice to do what they want with it.. some of you are just lame and have nothign better to do. its their choice and their money.. either spend it yourself or stop crying with the commentary..

  10. #1210
    Scarab Lord ringpriest's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DarkArchon View Post
    It's priced at 60$ to keep the games integrity, as a barrier to dilute a majority of people from instant leveling.

    If Blizzard wanted to make money they would have made it 15-20$ and have 15X the people using the service.

    The price isn't supposed to be ''reasonable'' that's the entire point of the 60$ to make you think twice about instant leveling.

    Think before mindlessly making claims and reasons.
    Ah, thank goodness for kindly, wise Blizzard, always with the players' best interests at heart, even when they're charging them four months worth of game time to flip a handful of bits. (Why would instant leveling be a problem anyway? After all, as has been claimed endlessly by Blizzard's supporters, "it's not Pay 2 Win".) Since you obviously "Think before mindlessly making claims and reasons" you no doubt have some objective, external support for your claim (which I'm certain isn't mindless Blizzard worship) and some hard statistics to back up your numbers, right?

  11. #1211
    Quote Originally Posted by ringpriest View Post
    Ah, thank goodness for kindly, wise Blizzard, always with the players' best interests at heart, even when they're charging them four months worth of game time to flip a handful of bits. (Why would instant leveling be a problem anyway? After all, as has been claimed endlessly by Blizzard's supporters, "it's not Pay 2 Win".) Since you obviously "Think before mindlessly making claims and reasons" you no doubt have some objective, external support for your claim (which I'm certain isn't mindless Blizzard worship) and some hard statistics to back up your numbers, right?
    More people need called out like this on blindly supporting blizzards awful game designs. And let me tell you this one is amongst the worst.

  12. #1212
    Moderator MoanaLisa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by adorich View Post
    Why should Blizzard put any effort into end game content when people are just going to get bored with it in a few months and quit playing? Blizzard should be finding ways to keep players interested in old and new content, instead of charging us to skip it.
    Three points:

    1. It's difficult to take any part of your post seriously if you're serious about the question posed in the quote. That's why we have patches and expansions. That's part of the reason why they say they are bending all of their efforts on end game instead of continuously toying around with stuff that has already been in the game for years.

    2. I believe that scaled content is going to be in the game sooner rather than later. Which will possibly make older raids and dungeons more interesting. Maybe. At least I hope so. It's something I've looked forward to for a very long time. And they actually seem to have a project like this in progress.

    3. It's just as sensible to say they're charging people who want to skip to the part of the game they'd prefer to play. Don't skip it if you don't like the charge. You do have that choice.
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  13. #1213
    Quote Originally Posted by Pann View Post
    My issue is not that I want the boost removed it is that Blizzard have come to the realisation that much of the levelling content is no longer fit for purpose and rather than look for solutions to the problem they have decided to monetise it. If they cannot find a way to make levelling enjoyable they should most certainly not be looking to charge their customers extra for their failure to deliver enjoyable levelling content and should allow existing players to boost their characters for free.
    This is quite literally one of the most ignorant things I have seen someone post in this thread yet. You honsetly can not be that dense, can you?

    Blizzard did not introduce Boost to 90 feature based on the conclusion that leveling is so broken that the only way to "fix" it is to monetise it. If they really felt that leveing no long "fit it's purpose", they would just tweak the exp curve / exp payout for quests / mobs yet again, so people power to 90 that much faster.

    Leveling still serves its purpose, the only thing about it that is broken is that the zones were designed around a much longer exp curve. And unfortunatley, there is no "quick fix" for that, short of completely doing the entire leveling / exp system around which the game is built on.

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    Quote Originally Posted by silvercentric View Post
    Once again I'll say it: You're creating something out of nothing. A server or faction change is not in the same line. A server or faction change is still meta-game in the sense that servers are part of the meta-game. Paying for a level 90 character is not meta, it directly effects the actual game.
    That's a rather silly arguement. Everything character you make in the game creates something out nothing. Every level 1 character you make magically appears out of nothing. When you made it, it wasnt there before. Sure, you payed your 15 bucks a month for that level 1, but where do you draw the line. Is your 3rd level 1 character more something for nothingish then your first? What about your 10th? Why is boosting a character to 90 any different?

    And how exactly does it driectly affect the game any more then creating a new level 1 does? Epsecially when the level cap will be 100 for WoD?

    Also, Old content is Old content. Especially in DIKU style MMO games, old content is pretty much by it's nature designed to depreciate over time. The entire purpose of the DIKU style game system is that the cool stuff happens at the higher levels. When the level cap goes up, everything UNDER the level cap simply becomes a foot note stepping stone to reaching the new max level. The onus (as you called it) is not on blizzard to keep the entirety of the old world content just as relivant in every way as the New content, any more then the onus is on the Ford Motor Company to keep every single model of car they ever released compedative with the newer ones. Your Model-T is never going to be as good as an F350, and is / was never intended to be. That is just the nature of the beast. The best thing Blizzard can do is tweak it so it never becomes completely broken.

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    Quote Originally Posted by adorich View Post
    Where in my post do I say Blizzard should re-do quests? You're missing my point entirely: leveling content doesn't have to be questing. There is tons of content Blizzard could open up to leveling players that was once 'end game content'. The content already exists.
    Name two that dont already exist in the game?

    You can already level from 1-90 completely based around doing nothing but:
    - Farming mobs
    - PvP battlegrounds
    - PvE dungeons
    - Archaeology
    - Gathering Professions (mining / herbalism)
    - Pet Battles

    Exactly what OTHER options do you propose blizzard has somehow missed to allow people to level without questing? Maybe you should just gain a level every 2 hours you spend logged in, so that people really could just AFK to victory?
    Last edited by Surfd; 2014-03-01 at 02:40 AM.

  14. #1214
    Quote Originally Posted by DarkArchon View Post
    It's priced at 60$ to keep the games integrity, as a barrier to dilute a majority of people from instant leveling.

    If Blizzard wanted to make money they would have made it 15-20$ and have 15X the people using the service.

    The price isn't supposed to be ''reasonable'' that's the entire point of the 60$ to make you think twice about instant leveling.

    Think before mindlessly making claims and reasons.
    IF it was to keep the game's integrity, it would be like 3-6 months cool-down until you can purchase the next lvl 90; also,the game's integrity was gone a long time ago, i guess you are so mindless that you didn't know that. Blizzard doesn't give a shit about you or the game's integrity, they are only interested in whats in your bank accounts. and you shouldn't tell people to think before making mindlessly claims and reasons when you are mindlessly defending a corporation that doesn't give a shit about you.

    your kind of attitude is the reason why so many governments are so corrupt and why many corporations are taking advantage of the governments , you easily bend over to the shit that will be jamming down your throats without having any critical thinking to repel.
    Last edited by Elian; 2014-03-01 at 03:13 AM.

  15. #1215
    Quote Originally Posted by Elian View Post
    IF it was to keep the game's integrity, it would be like 3-6 months cool-down until you can purchase the next lvl 90; also,the game's integrity was gone a long time ago, i guess you are so mindless that you didn't know that. Blizzard doesn't give a shit about you or the game's integrity, they are only interested in whats in your bank accounts. and you shouldn't tell people to think mindlessly claims and reasons when you are mindlessly defending a corporation that doesn't give a shit about you.

    your kind of attitude is the reason why so many governments are so corrupt and why many corporations are taking advantage of the governments , you easily bend over to the shit that will be jamming down your throats without having any critical thinking to repel.
    I don't think he's necessarily wrong though. What would happen to the leveling experience if most people decided to forgo traditional leveling and just whip out $20 or $30? Leveling zones would be empty...significantly longer dungeon and pvp queue times...it would suck for those people who decided to level the old fashioned way.

    Personally I don't think level 90s should be available to purchase at all, or are limited to one per WoD xpac purchase. But having a higher price point hopefully means that at least some people won't think the price is worth it, and therefore have less of an effect on the leveling experience.

  16. #1216
    From the negative perspective: They are basicalky ensuring us that they don't expect anything from WoD and that they will milk the game until it's dead.

  17. #1217
    Quote Originally Posted by Surfd View Post
    This is quite literally one of the most ignorant things I have seen someone post in this thread yet. You honsetly can not be that dense, can you?
    If that's the case then why is it necessary to introduce it at all? Clearly, if it's as you said and that nothing is wrong, then we never had to add it in the first place. Except they did, so they obviously see that something is wrong with leveling.

    That's a rather silly arguement. Everything character you make in the game creates something out nothing. Every level 1 character you make magically appears out of nothing. When you made it, it wasnt there before. Sure, you payed your 15 bucks a month for that level 1, but where do you draw the line. Is your 3rd level 1 character more something for nothingish then your first? What about your 10th? Why is boosting a character to 90 any different?
    When you create a character, they start at level 1 with no experience. They are, in game mechanics, effectively nothing. You can create all the level 1s that you want, and there is no actual value to doing so. This is not the case with a level 90. There is value in having a level 90 and that value has been conjured out of thin air. Are you so dense that you cannot comprehend something so simple?

  18. #1218
    Quote Originally Posted by MoanaLisa View Post
    Again, the mirror of 'paying to skip content' is 'paying to get to the content you want to play' which for many people will sound sensible.
    But here is the problem. Let's say I'm this example gamer you mention that only cares for end game, and I want to roll an alt. Are you suggesting that it's reasonable for an MMO that I already pay $14.99 a month to play on top of the cost of the actual game itself to then expect me to pay $60 per new character to skip all of the redundant and dead content and enjoy the part of the game I want to play? So $Cost of Game/Expansions + $60 + $14.99 to enjoy the part of a game that you suggest is widely accepted to be where the actual game starts. Hmm. Something doesn't quite stack up there.

    Now of course the response to this is: choice. You don't *have* to pay. But by your own suggestion.. the game is dead/broken/whatever 1-90 .. so the game is sort of suggesting you do need to pay up.

    I'll suggest a radical alternative here. They could have boosted new alts to 90 for free with a limit of how many times you can do it. But that would be far too radical for Blizzard because guess what... they make no money from that. Instead they cook up some line about how $60 is the correct value for a 90 and hope the player base swallows it.

    You can tell Blizzard know deep down their charge is flawed because they're giving everyone who buys the expansion a free 90. They know if they didn't do that the $60 would be too much to pay for returning players.

    Their game has a problem.. and rather than fix it with a free solution.. they're charging for the fix. Gotta hand it to them.. they're pros at milking their player base. Anyone would think WoW was free to play. I mean the prices of some items on the store sure seem to suggest it.

    Here is my view, 1-90 isn't broken, it never has been. It's just a chore. Even with heirlooms, random dungeons, it's still a bit too much of a chore with a 100 cap. So here was my idea. Sell an entire heirloom set, all pieces, all classes, with an extra +15% XP necklace .. sell all of that for $15. Call it the "All In One Alt Kit" or whatever. You buy it once.. you can use it on as many alts as you like. And bingo.. 1-90 is so incredibly easy.. you just queue for randoms and you're a 90 in no time. At least with this solution the 1-90 dungeons aren't ghost towns and healers and tanks will actually know how to perform their rolls before they turn up in 90-100 dungeons.

    To sum up... if 1-90 is "broken" and the game "begins at 90" .. how is it ever correct and acceptable that they're charging $60 for the fix to this problem?
    Last edited by Collected; 2014-03-01 at 03:18 AM.

  19. #1219
    Moderator MoanaLisa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Collected View Post
    But here is the problem. Let's say I'm this example gamer you mention that only cares for end game, and I want to roll an alt. Are you suggesting that it's reasonable for an MMO that I already pay $14.99 a month to play on top of the cost of the actual game itself to then expect me to pay $60 per new character to skip all of the redundant and dead content and enjoy the part of the game I want to play? So $Cost of Game/Expansions + $60 + $14.99 to enjoy the part of a game that you suggest is widely accepted to be where the actual game starts. Hmm. Something doesn't quite stack up there.

    Now of course the response to this is: choice. You don't *have* to pay. But by your own suggestion.. the game is dead/broken/whatever 1-90 .. so the game is sort of suggesting you do need to pay up.
    No, I didn't say the game is broken for everyone. It's broken for me personally since I've been through it enough times. But that's personal and I'm not applying this to everyone. Quite the opposite. And after a long run of raising alts after leaving it alone for say a year it may well 'un-break' itself.

    There are plenty of people who will think the price too high or enjoy leveling and won't do it. And that's fine too. The reason that the response to this is 'choice' is precisely because it is. If it's worth it to a player then they can do so, or they can choose not to. Neither is wrong, nor am I saying or have ever said that the choice should be removed. And everyone gets a free shot at it in any case if they buy the expansion which is fine. For many that's all they need. And that's the difference.

    It's up to Blizzard how they wish to provide the game options. It's up to us to choose which of those options we pursue. For everyone else, it's really none of their business.
    Last edited by MoanaLisa; 2014-03-01 at 03:31 AM.
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  20. #1220
    Quote Originally Posted by MoanaLisa View Post
    It's up to Blizzard how they wish to provide the game options. It's up to us to choose which of those options we pursue. For everyone else, it's really none of their business.
    This is an MMO, not a singleplayer game. How other players get things IS my business because it effects the community I play in.

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