Reason's behind disgust at 60$ for level 90 chars

[Surfd]

Since you really need this spelled out for you. WoW is a game. Games follows rules, these rules define that game's mechanics. WoW has an element called "leveling" which is rooted deeply in RPG tradition. You "level up" a character by acquiring enough experience through various means. This can mean killing an enemy, completing a quest, etc. Whatever it is you do it takes time and effort to accomplish.

Guess who makes the rules. Starts with a Bliz, ends with a zard. If you dont like it, you are free to vote with your wallet. The rest of us who understand exactly how little this is actually going to affect the game will happily continue playing without ever missing you.

What exactly do you mean by this? Do you just write filler sentences like this because you can't put together a coherent thought? There is value in being a level 90 character. However, that is not the only source of value a character has. A character may have gold, items, equipment, completed character-specific achievements, hold PvP ranks, challenge mode records, etc. These are all things that contribute to the value of a character.

No shit. I have never tried to deny this. However, that does not have any bearing on the question at hand, which is the Boost to 90 feature.

I mean. Be 100% honest with yourself here: The next time you level a character to 90, are you going to stop and smell the roses along the way? Are you going to take the scenic route? Are you going to completely finish each leveling zone, long after each one has gone grey to you, just for the achievement? Are you going to try to get every achievement you can as you level up, even if you have to go out of your way for them? I highly doubt it. For the vast majority of players, getting to the new expantions content as quickly and efficiently as possible is pretty much ALWAYS the goal when starting a new character. The vast majority of that "value" you like to attach to a level 90 character was accrued AFTER they got to 90.

And that is the whole point about the Boost to 90 system and the way it applies to WoD. Nobody is going to be earning meaningful value on a new character made after WoD launches untill they reach level 100. Pretty much all "value" they earn on the way to 90 will entirely be a side effect of leveing to to 90, and not an intentional effort to accrue "value", since the real value will start adding up on the 90-100 track and onwards once they cap out at 100.

What this means is that they've completely cheapened the value of leveling a character. Anyone who no longer lives with their parents (MMO-Champion, who am I kidding) and has a job and just wants to get to endgame content would be foolish to think of anything but purchasing a level 90.

Since the inherent value in any character is pretty much 100% completely subjective to the owner of the character, I would appreciate it if you would stop trying to tell me what my charcter should be worth in my eyes.

Since you are soooooo set on instant 90s ruining the "value" of your existing one, tell me this: Does RAFing to 90 diminish the value of 90s? I mean, they still leveled to get there, but they did it 3x faster then normally possible, and had the ability to grant FREE LEVELS, that they didnt have to play through. Does that "cheapen the value" of your 90? What about Heirlooms? Massive boosts in leveling speed allowing you to skip over content you normally would have to level through must also cheapen the leveling experience? Where do you draw the line?

(Never mind, of course, that no matter what you want to believe, your character is inherently worth NOTHING at all more then the memories you have attached to it, since your purple pixels and achivement points, rare mount collection and silly titles are not even YOURS, but wholly owned by Blizzard, who could shut the entire system down tomorrow and it all goes POOF with not a single thing you can do about it).

That's a really disgusting game design philosophy.

Except that, you know, it is not a "game design philosophy", since last time I checked, Blizzard was not desigining their game around the philosophy that everyone should be buying level 90 characters.......

Except there are plenty of ways to improve the leveling system for veteran players that doesn't involve extensive amounts of developer resources.

Name one.

Now you're at least making some sense. Of course different players will place different value on a level 90. Some will see getting to 90 as a chore. Others enjoy the process. But here's the thing, and I know it seems hard to follow since the two seem so directly connected: it doesn't matter.

There is inherent, objective value in having a level 90 and that is the only thing that matters for this discussion. In the end two different players will have a level 90; one put in the time to acquire that via in-game methods, the other payed cash. The fact that you cannot differentiate between the two and see what's so wrong about it is just sad.

I see nothing wrong, because there IS nothing wrong. That is not sad. That is looking at reality. The reality is, that there used to be only ONE way to get to max level, and it was leveling in game. And it was entertaining, the first time or two around, when you took a character to the available max level, and then a new exapntion came out, and you had shitloads of fresh content to level through while you leveled up to the next available max level. This was fun and awesome, if you had a character already at the previous level cap when a new expantion came out. It was not so fun and awesome any more when expantion 4 comes out, and you have 5 games worth of content to level through on a brand new character when only ONE of those (the most recent one) actually matters.

Guess what. That hasnt changed. There is still only going to be one way to level to max level, and that will be leveling in game. The only thing that has changed, is that Blizzard has now introduced a way to get to the starting point of the most recent expantion without leveling in game.

To use your largely meaningless example up above, two people decide to get to 90. One pays for it. One plays for it. They both get to 90. Do you know why your example is meaningless? Because both people already decided on exactly how much "inherent, objective value", that level 90 was worth to them. To one player, that character was worth 60 bucks of their personal money. Which they earned with their own time, outside the game. To the other player, that character was worth X amount of hours in game. Hours they decided to spend playing, instead of doing something else. In the end, they both spent something to get there. And it was their own choice as to if the expenditure was worth it. Either way, they still have to get to 100. And the only way they can do that, is to level up in the game.

Strawman? No. The two terms are nearly analogous in this context. To rephrase it for you since you're incapable of stringing two coherent thoughts together: When a new expansion launches you don't lose any value. Nothing is destroyed (class balance changes excluded of course). You retain the ability to do everything that you could before it launched, it is just no longer relevant to the most recent content.

To put it more simply, the value cap is expanded to allow you to become more powerful, to become more valuable. No value is lost.

If only that was actually true. Except that, you know, it isnt. That bolded part up above that you casually threw out there explains why too. In games like WoW where pretty much everything revolves around what is happeining with the 'current content', the term "mudflation" exists for a reason, and just because you want to pretend it does not affect the value of a character in WoW, does not mean you are correct.

Your character may not "lose" any value, as you say, but the actual worth of that value depreciates every time a new expantion is released. This is pretty much an unavoidabe fact.

[Ragashii]

The price tag doesn't bother me but their reasoning is weak. A level 90 isn't going to mean jack when everyone is running around at level 100 and the price will most likely never change. But if someone out there wants to pay the same price as a AAA game for a crappy geared level 90 then more power to them.

[xcess]

The price tag doesn't bother me but their reasoning is weak. A level 90 isn't going to mean jack when everyone is running around at level 100 and the price will most likely never change. But if someone out there wants to pay the same price as a AAA game for a crappy geared level 90 then more power to them.

It will or if the new lvl cap is 110 the boost will jump to 100. They will have to because once WOD is $10 and Game with xpac up to mists is $5 ppl will just buy that and pay $25 transfer and make it cheaper for themselves anyway

[Sury]

As I've said before in this thread. WoW is an MMO, not a single-player game. How other players acquire things is everyone's business.

Even the NSA got a good laugh after reading your response. I couldn't care less about how you got any of your characters past level 1.

I can agree with you that the leveling system could be better. I personally do not wish for another low level revamp or experience adjustment. There are far better things I would like to see Blizzard give attention to instead of revisiting the 1-90 experience.

I try to think of the positive impact this feature will have on the game. It will have some negative impact, but lets be realistic with our assumptions of just how noticeable that impact will be. The average person will never notice, and those that are against it will over estimate the damage.

Blizzard will continue to spend most of their development time on what is coming and/or currently at cap. This feature is just one more step in the direction of making the game as accessible as possible for old and new players. Blizzard has said many times in the past, "we focus on the future and accept that content has a use by date".

I would be interested to know the results of a poll that asked all current subscribers if they would give up their free 90 to make the paid 90 less of a necessity

[Barkloud]

All these posts i have read and I still see nothing that changes my opinion that people would rather pay $60 to access end game then go through the horrific horrific experience of leveling. It was not so bad when they had flight paths. Removing them was a huge mistake.

Here is how leveling works for me.

Run a dungeon
Start to run to the next area to quest that is my level.
Run a dungeon
Keep running to the next area to quest
Run a dungeon
Find out I am too high level for the area.
Run a dungeon
Start to run to the next area to quest.
Run a dungeon
Keep running to the next area to quest
Run a dungeon
Find out I am too high level for the area.
Run a dungeon
Start to run to the next area to quest.
Run a dungeon
Keep running to the next area to quest
Run a dungeon
Find out I am too high level for the area.

Sucks so bad that every time i reach a new area, everything is green.

Drives me crazy.

Look at Rift though, no matter when I feel like it click my instant action button and get automatically warped to 30 other people killing epic bosses. No quests, no nothing, everybody gets xp.

All you need to do is play and have fun. What a concept.

[The Flavour Cat]

Here is how leveling works for me.

Run a dungeon
Start to run to the next area to quest that is my level.
Run a dungeon
Keep running to the next area to quest
Run a dungeon
Find out I am too high level for the area.
Run a dungeon
Start to run to the next area to quest.
Run a dungeon
Keep running to the next area to quest
Run a dungeon
Find out I am too high level for the area.
Run a dungeon
Start to run to the next area to quest.
Run a dungeon
Keep running to the next area to quest
Run a dungeon
Find out I am too high level for the area.

Sucks so bad that every time i reach a new area, everything is green.

Drives me crazy.

It could always help going to a site like wowpedia where they list the zones by their level range, so you won't be too high-level or frustrated to continue.

[Merpish]

Can someone please explain to me why people are so upset about something that doesn't have any effect on their gameplay?

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I mean. Be 100% honest with yourself here: The next time you level a character to 90, are you going to stop and smell the roses along the way? Are you going to take the scenic route? Are you going to completely finish each leveling zone, long after each one has gone grey to you, just for the achievement? Are you going to try to get every achievement you can as you level up, even if you have to go out of your way for them? I highly doubt it. For the vast majority of players, getting to the new expantions content as quickly and efficiently as possible is pretty much ALWAYS the goal when starting a new character. The vast majority of that "value" you like to attach to a level 90 character was accrued AFTER they got to 90.

Give this man a cookie.

[-Superman-]

Can someone please explain to me why people are so upset about something that doesn't have any effect on their gameplay?

Because people hate it when others get something they want. I have no doubt most of the people saying this is pay-to-win, or an unfair advantage will likely NOT be giving back their free 90 when they buy WoD. Nor will they quit the game in protest. In fact, unless someone tells you they boosted, no one will ever know. There are those who want to tag boosters with some kind of mark. Makes them little more than those who felt the need to mark certain others in Germany to identify them as slaves.

Honestly, people need to quit being worried about how others play their game and focus on their own game. If a player is bad, they will always be bad regardless of how they leveled. If they are good, you will never even know they were boosted.

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All these posts i have read and I still see nothing that changes my opinion that people would rather pay $60 to access end game then go through the horrific horrific experience of leveling. It was not so bad when they had flight paths. Removing them was a huge mistake.

Here is how leveling works for me.

Run a dungeon
Start to run to the next area to quest that is my level.
Run a dungeon
Keep running to the next area to quest
Run a dungeon
Find out I am too high level for the area.
Run a dungeon
Start to run to the next area to quest.
Run a dungeon
Keep running to the next area to quest
Run a dungeon
Find out I am too high level for the area.
Run a dungeon
Start to run to the next area to quest.
Run a dungeon
Keep running to the next area to quest
Run a dungeon
Find out I am too high level for the area.

Found your problem. Zones were designed to do all the quests leading up to the Dungeon, and then run the dungeon one time. With the introduction of LFD at lvl 15, questing got all fucked up.

[Pann]

Because people hate it when others get something they want. I have no doubt most of the people saying this is pay-to-win, or an unfair advantage will likely NOT be giving back their free 90 when they buy WoD. Nor will they quit the game in protest. In fact, unless someone tells you they boosted, no one will ever know. There are those who want to tag boosters with some kind of mark. Makes them little more than those who felt the need to mark certain others in Germany to identify them as slaves.

Honestly, people need to quit being worried about how others play their game and focus on their own game. If a player is bad, they will always be bad regardless of how they leveled. If they are good, you will never even know they were boosted.

The reference to Germany and marking people as slaves is completely unnecessary and inappropriate. Grow up.

[mbrmbr]

There are those who want to tag boosters with some kind of mark. Makes them little more than those who felt the need to mark certain others in Germany to identify them as slaves.

Did you just say that people who are against paid lvl 90, are no better than nazis? In my humble opinion, that is maybe going a bit too far?

[roahn the warlock]

'

Because people hate it when others get something they want. I have no doubt most of the people saying this is pay-to-win, or an unfair advantage will likely NOT be giving back their free 90 when they buy WoD. Nor will they quit the game in protest. In fact, unless someone tells you they boosted, no one will ever know. There are those who want to tag boosters with some kind of mark. Makes them little more than those who felt the need to mark certain others in Germany to identify them as slaves.

Honestly, people need to quit being worried about how others play their game and focus on their own game. If a player is bad, they will always be bad regardless of how they leveled. If they are good, you will never even know they were boosted.

Something I know ya never heard of called immersion.

Also how about uhh, making questing not suck? For instance make quests scale with level, so you can actually complete a story line instead of doing 5 quests into hellfire then skipping to the next one

Or merge outlands and northrend into 58-80 so you can choose the path you want, and actually do a story line
Or not have payed 90's at all and let that be it. They wanna go round about? (Can't transfer a toon on an account less than 90 days old) Hb that, didn't take long to close that loophole forever

[pallydan]

I would prefer a scaling pay system based on the level of the character being boosted.

$60 for a level 1 vs a level 85 toon to get to level 90 doesn't seem fair.

[-Superman-]

Well well, it would seem some people are offended by the idea that they resemble a certain sect. If that comment upset you, that is your issue, not mine. It was not aimed at you personally so taking it as such is a personal responsibility which I will not take off your hands.

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'

Something I know ya never heard of called immersion.

Also how about uhh, making questing not suck? For instance make quests scale with level, so you can actually complete a story line instead of doing 5 quests into hellfire then skipping to the next one

Or merge outlands and northrend into 58-80 so you can choose the path you want, and actually do a story line
Or not have payed 90's at all and let that be it. They wanna go round about? (Can't transfer a toon on an account less than 90 days old) Hb that, didn't take long to close that loophole forever

The problem is the increased XP. Zones were designed to elicit a specific amount of xp per quest and time it just right, without any sort of boost (i.e. - heirlooms, RaF, or guild perks). This meant by the time you left the zone, you had completed it all and were on par with where you needed to be. Since then, we now have perks and gear which countermand that line of questing. So, the only way to fix the issue is to redesign everything from lvl 1-85 and put a huge handicap on the XP, or, remove a bunch of quests and let the XP bring them from start to finish.

[mbrmbr]

Well well, it would seem some people are offended by the idea that they resemble a certain sect.

This would probably put you on my ignore list in WoW, but we don't have a feature like that here afaik...

Good thing your signature is easy to remember... please don't change it.

[Pann]

This would probably put you on my ignore list in WoW, but we don't have a feature like that here afaik...

Good thing your signature is easy to remember... please don't change it.

If you click a poster's name and select view profile you can then ignore them.

[CrusaderNerò87]

They tried to do something with the leveling content(1-60) in Cata. The masses ignored this and Blizzard spendt alot of time on this. Resulting in less good end game content.

After the work the did with cata leveling and seeing how little they got out of it, I understand why they dont attempt on something like this again. Said that, I really wish they did some dramatic changes to the leveling and not just put a pricetag on a level 90. By doing that they aknowledge that the leveling content is bad(Atleast the zones before cata) and its worth skipping.

Tbh, they should have just removed outland & Wotlk zones. Or have the zones there, but not needed for leveling. Make Azeroth 1-85 with changes to all zones(more xp, changes to quest zones++).

In the end, changing the leveling experience in old content is soo much work and its proven that it was not worth it for Blizzard. The azeroth zones were changed for the cata theme and main enemy, but as soon as MoP came out, it was outdated.. Like, who is this deathwing? "Cant wait to fight him at max level! Wait, what is this pandaria? Garrosh? he is new enemy?" It will be like this as long as new xpacs comes out..

A friend of mine started wow a year ago. He told me his leveling experience was weird and chatotic. He was new to the warcraft universe and took an interest in the leveling. He read quests text and completed zones he liked. But he said it was so weird cause it was all the badass characters that you were supposed to kill with others but he missed out on all of this. Not until the 85-90 leveling he felt a purpose with what he experienced through dungeons and quests.

Maybe, after each xpac, remove old zones required for leveling? At new xpac, new characters starts at a higher level..I dont know, maybe a bit to radical :P

Its a bit weird all of this. No one imagined back in classic that this would be a huge issue 10 years later :P

[-Superman-]

If you click a poster's name and select view profile you can then ignore them.

Pretty much this. There is a feature available. I used it against people who wanted to tag boosters.

[Ordinator]

Pretty much this. There is a feature available. I used it against people who wanted to tag boosters.

You just made a thread about seeing other peoples point of view and respecting peoples opinions, yet you also ignore people who have a different opinion than you.. hmm....

[Beartastic]

I view it as rather pricey. If blizz actually wanted to make a lot of money off of it, they would've lowered the price to 30. I mean... when WoD comes out, you'll be able to get a free 90 for the price of the expansion (which I believe is still $40?). Why up the price 20 bucks after the expansion alone is going to net you more than that for a cheaper price?

Edit: To get back on topic... I hate that people are viewing this idea as a "pay-to-win" scenario. It isn't. It's a "pay to skip a leveling process that they've done a bunch of times and don't feel the need to do it again" scenario. They don't get anything but bare-minimum green ilvl items for paying for the character, they still have to learn the toon's abilities and master them if they want to be any good at it, and it doesn't level them to max level since 90 will be the new 85.

[-Superman-]

You just made a thread about seeing other peoples point of view and respecting peoples opinions, yet you also ignore people who have a different opinion than you.. hmm....

They are entitled to their opinion. My view point was different. When some of them started talking crazy about wanting to tag boosters, I found the better option was to ignore them and move on, not sit there and tell them how stupid they were. I figured it was a more adult choice.