Page 67 of 81 FirstFirst ...
17
57
65
66
67
68
69
77
... LastLast
  1. #1321
    Quote Originally Posted by Gray_Matter View Post
    They have to spend a whole lot of time before they can actually play with their friends.
    Then why didn't Blizzard address this problem instead of putting a very expensive band aid on it. People have offered solutions like scaling down gear so you can level with your friends, or increased exp boost while grouped with friends. Anything would be better than just saying "give us money and we'll give you lvls".

  2. #1322
    Herald of the Titans Bryntrollian's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Outside Black Gate of Mordor...
    Posts
    2,703
    Pay2win ? Attaining level cap hasn't been seen as " winning " since Vanilla, get real...
    Synek - best rogue in the world


  3. #1323
    Quote Originally Posted by Ordinator View Post
    Then why didn't Blizzard address this problem instead of putting a very expensive band aid on it. People have offered solutions like scaling down gear so you can level with your friends, or increased exp boost while grouped with friends. Anything would be better than just saying "give us money and we'll give you lvls".
    Effort vs Reward - An XP boost while with friends doesn't help a lot of new players or people who want to level alts. The proper solution would have been to work on and streamline the old content. That would have taken away from other parts of the game which would mean either a later WoD or one with less new "stuff". With the boosts Blizzard gets to focus on the new stuff and new people are happy. The problem is that new people won't really be happy with just one 90 (free one) and the boost is too expensive for anyone who doesn't have a massive investment in the game which new players don't have so they will start with their 1 max level, level an alt to 20 or so before they get bored and then call it quits on the leveling. they might play with their max level for a bit but if they don't like the class they picked then they are stuffed. Something that could have been an enabler for new players is not because of the price. All it does is allow the few people who have a massive investment in the game to get a few extra alts and annoy a chunk of the players who are against the concept as a whole.

  4. #1324
    Quote Originally Posted by Gray_Matter View Post
    Effort vs Reward - An XP boost while with friends doesn't help a lot of new players or people who want to level alts. The proper solution would have been to work on and streamline the old content. That would have taken away from other parts of the game which would mean either a later WoD or one with less new "stuff". With the boosts Blizzard gets to focus on the new stuff and new people are happy. The problem is that new people won't really be happy with just one 90 (free one) and the boost is too expensive for anyone who doesn't have a massive investment in the game which new players don't have so they will start with their 1 max level, level an alt to 20 or so before they get bored and then call it quits on the leveling. they might play with their max level for a bit but if they don't like the class they picked then they are stuffed. Something that could have been an enabler for new players is not because of the price. All it does is allow the few people who have a massive investment in the game to get a few extra alts and annoy a chunk of the players who are against the concept as a whole.
    Well, i would have to agree with most of that i suppose.

  5. #1325
    Quote Originally Posted by Gray_Matter View Post
    Effort vs Reward - An XP boost while with friends doesn't help a lot of new players or people who want to level alts. The proper solution would have been to work on and streamline the old content. That would have taken away from other parts of the game which would mean either a later WoD or one with less new "stuff". With the boosts Blizzard gets to focus on the new stuff and new people are happy. The problem is that new people won't really be happy with just one 90 (free one) and the boost is too expensive for anyone who doesn't have a massive investment in the game which new players don't have so they will start with their 1 max level, level an alt to 20 or so before they get bored and then call it quits on the leveling. they might play with their max level for a bit but if they don't like the class they picked then they are stuffed. Something that could have been an enabler for new players is not because of the price. All it does is allow the few people who have a massive investment in the game to get a few extra alts and annoy a chunk of the players who are against the concept as a whole.
    I do not think there are new players for WOW. At least not in America.

  6. #1326
    Quote Originally Posted by Gray_Matter View Post
    People using alts can take different paths for the alts which will keep the experience relatively fresh. Who cares if a new player doesn't see 4/5 of the content. They will see some more with an alt. It will make leveling alts far more interesting as there will be a number of players out in the world because leveling will be fun and worthwhile.
    With a cheaper boost, players won't be seeing that content; they'll just do what they ended up doing for their alts what they did for their first character...saying "fuck it" after a few days of leveling and simply spending the $20-30 to boost to 90.

    I'm totally down for Blizzard doing something to streamline leveling and making older content more relevant, I just don't think insta-90 boosts are the solution. XP pots for purchase might be a good alternative.
    Last edited by Celista; 2014-03-07 at 03:35 AM.

  7. #1327
    Quote Originally Posted by Ordinator View Post
    Then why didn't Blizzard address this problem instead of putting a very expensive band aid on it. People have offered solutions like scaling down gear so you can level with your friends, or increased exp boost while grouped with friends. Anything would be better than just saying "give us money and we'll give you lvls".
    That's not a solution, it still takes new players weeks if not months to level, and the game is max level.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tojara View Post
    Look Batman really isn't an accurate source by any means
    Quote Originally Posted by Hooked View Post
    It is a fact, not just something I made up.

  8. #1328
    Quote Originally Posted by Gray_Matter View Post
    The reason why the boosts exists is because the age of the game has made the leveling process fundimentally flawed. It's not fun, it's grindy and boring. The majority of people supporting the boosts would happily accept a streamlined leveling process instead. Right now, there is no alternative to the hell that is leveling. Until you start a new account and try and level to max level without any of the heirlooms, gold and other guild boosts, you won't realisically understand how bad it really is.
    I disagree wholeheartedly.

    I'm in the process of leveling 0-90. No heirlooms or boosting tech of any kind. I just hit lvl 70, with about 10 hours play time. That is high, because I have left the game to auto log-out SEVERAL times.

    It isn't bad, queue LFG, spam AOE, get easy loot, and continue questing. I was lvl 70 before I cleared Zangarmarsh and expect to hit lvl 80 by Saturday night. If it's taken you a month and a half to level 90 then I'm sorry.

    As far as the rest of your post goes...

    Now from a brand new player perspective, yeah that would be a daunting task. Then again, name an MMO out for 10 years that wouldn't be a migraine? You have to understand that the market is blown out, like Sasha Grey's O-ring.

    This isn't 2005 when Thottbott barely worked, or it took 10+ days played to reach max level. The game is FAR easier, FAR more streamlined, and FAR more accessible then it ever has been. It's only getting better.

    Blizzard is saying if you want premium content for max levels. Then you are going to have to forgo a more streamlined level process. Because they aren't going to give us both. So are you willing to sacrifice another expansion for updated questing? Or are you willing to deal with the band-aid fixes for the long run? I for one am willing to deal with the band-aid fixes.

    If you think WoW is even remotely awful, I challenge you to max out skill points in Ultima Online. Good luck.

  9. #1329
    Quote Originally Posted by Mormolyce View Post
    That's not a solution, it still takes new players weeks if not months to level, and the game is max level.
    Not to everyone. And in a lot of ways leveling is the exact same thing as max level. Questing, dungeons, PvP is all part of leveling just as it is max level. One thing i attribute making leveling so boring is the heirlooms. In a game revolving around upgrading gear, when you make that gear for every slot stagnant for 85 levels, it does get awfully boring, and that's just to get the XP boost. The XP boost needs to be implemented in another way so leveling is more than just questing in the exact same gear from level 1.

    There are also so many different methods of leveling i don't really get the "it's unbearably boring" complaint. It used to be just quests, considering dungeons were hard to put together at low levels, and battlegrounds gave no XP. But thats not the case anymore. That means you can level while questing, doing dungeons, and battleground, which I myself do variations of constantly while leveling (throwing in as much world PvP as possible is always fun as well). Also if you notice all of those things are what max level is comprised of anyway. So why would you pay a exorbitant amount of money just to rush to doing the same exact thing.

  10. #1330
    Quote Originally Posted by Jokerfiend View Post
    I disagree wholeheartedly.

    I'm in the process of leveling 0-90. No heirlooms or boosting tech of any kind. I just hit lvl 70, with about 10 hours play time. That is high, because I have left the game to auto log-out SEVERAL times.

    It isn't bad, queue LFG, spam AOE, get easy loot, and continue questing. I was lvl 70 before I cleared Zangarmarsh and expect to hit lvl 80 by Saturday night. If it's taken you a month and a half to level 90 then I'm sorry.

    As far as the rest of your post goes...

    Now from a brand new player perspective, yeah that would be a daunting task. Then again, name an MMO out for 10 years that wouldn't be a migraine? You have to understand that the market is blown out, like Sasha Grey's O-ring.

    This isn't 2005 when Thottbott barely worked, or it took 10+ days played to reach max level. The game is FAR easier, FAR more streamlined, and FAR more accessible then it ever has been. It's only getting better.

    Blizzard is saying if you want premium content for max levels. Then you are going to have to forgo a more streamlined level process. Because they aren't going to give us both. So are you willing to sacrifice another expansion for updated questing? Or are you willing to deal with the band-aid fixes for the long run? I for one am willing to deal with the band-aid fixes.

    If you think WoW is even remotely awful, I challenge you to max out skill points in Ultima Online. Good luck.
    The first time I leveled a character, I think it took me 3-4 months to get to level cap. This was back when the level cap was 70, and it was my first mmo.

    I'm willing to admit that I might have been ridiculously slow at leveling.

  11. #1331
    Quote Originally Posted by Celista View Post
    With a cheaper boost, players won't be seeing that content; they'll just do what they ended up doing for their alts what they did for their first character...saying "fuck it" after a few days of leveling and simply spending the $20-30 to boost to 90.

    I'm totally down for Blizzard doing something to streamline leveling and making older content more relevant, I just don't think insta-90 boosts are the solution. XP pots for purchase might be a good alternative.
    They have to do one or the other otherwise the barrier for new players just keeps getting bigger and the whole alt experience gets worse.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Jokerfiend View Post
    I disagree wholeheartedly.

    I'm in the process of leveling 0-90. No heirlooms or boosting tech of any kind. I just hit lvl 70, with about 10 hours play time. That is high, because I have left the game to auto log-out SEVERAL times.

    It isn't bad, queue LFG, spam AOE, get easy loot, and continue questing. I was lvl 70 before I cleared Zangarmarsh and expect to hit lvl 80 by Saturday night. If it's taken you a month and a half to level 90 then I'm sorry.
    I am sorry but I don't buy that (10 hours to 70). There are things that take time, moving between levels, getting gold for flying, bags, AH visits, etc. Without RAF, or any other boosts I can't see how that's possible. Even the power-leveling guys take 3-4 days to level a character to 80. That said the leveling process gets slower as you go.

  12. #1332
    Quote Originally Posted by Gray_Matter View Post
    No, it doesn't affect you. It might bother you but it doesn't affect you.

    The reason why the boosts exists is because the age of the game has made the leveling process fundimentally flawed. It's not fun, it's grindy and boring. The majority of people supporting the boosts would happily accept a streamlined leveling process instead. Right now, there is no alternative to the hell that is leveling. Until you start a new account and try and level to max level without any of the heirlooms, gold and other guild boosts, you won't realisically understand how bad it really is.
    Its not fun playing by yourself anyway which new ppl will find out when they get to max level. Low leveling is not broken its the ppl. If you don't like levelling no matter what they come up with wont fix it, some ppl wont like lvling 90 - 100 right from the start but they have to force themselves if they want to do end game content. Some ppl still like levelling after 10 years and they have prolly 50 toons. All aspects of the game will get boring for ppl after a while why do you think we get new raids. People say they loved ICC and Uldrar but I bet some are sick of them now. Its the same as levelling why aren't ppl complaning with killing 10 boars on Azeroth vs 10 boars in Dreanor 2.0? Because they looks different ?

  13. #1333
    Quote Originally Posted by Constraint View Post
    It doesn't matter if newer players with a little bit of $$ NEVER have to quest through 9 years worth of lore? That's a little depressing, even to me.
    ROTFL. Seriously. Who, even out of completely fresh, 100% new players starting their first level 1, is going to quest through 9 years of lore in their first shot? Short of someone so obsessive-compulsive that they probably should seek medical help, the answer is nobody. Even a fresh newbie stepping foot into WoW for the first time is only going to see about 15% of the available "lore" when they quest to 90 for the first time. Even without heirlooms and guild perks, just following the standard leveling path and moving on when quests turn grey would still see you skipping about 60-70% of level 1-60 content, about 50% of TBC, 50% of Wrath, and 40% of Cata. Considering there will probably be another EXP scale adjustment when WoD comes out, you will probably be able to skip 30-40% of Mists too. And then you have to account for the fact that that is only HALF the lore, since you are also skipping everything as seen from the viewpoint of the opposing faction.

    Things like the Loremaster achievement exist for exactly this reason. There is literally nothing stopping them from exploring all that lore at their convenience and leasure after they hit 90 (by whatever method they chose to use). This is WoW, not some linear action game like Super Mario or God of War. Boosting to 90 does not somehow magically prevent you from seeing everything you byassed like paying to skip to World 9-3 would in Mario.....
    Last edited by Surfd; 2014-03-07 at 07:43 AM.

  14. #1334
    Quote Originally Posted by Bryntrollian View Post
    Pay2win ? Attaining level cap hasn't been seen as " winning " since Vanilla, get real...

    It wasn't winning then, either. "The game begins at 60", was a saying back then. End game has always been the aim.

    A lot of people also seem to forget that MoP is in its twilight, and very soon 90 will be 10 levels under max level. Who cares if people will get a free 90 so they can run SoO LFR to kill time until Warlords comes out? That's not exactly what I'd call winning.

  15. #1335
    Quote Originally Posted by Ordinator View Post
    Then why didn't Blizzard address this problem instead of putting a very expensive band aid on it. People have offered solutions like scaling down gear so you can level with your friends, or increased exp boost while grouped with friends. Anything would be better than just saying "give us money and we'll give you lvls".
    How would EITHER of those things fix the problem. Scaling Gear down? Who the hell would actually use that?. I am not going to "de-level" myself on my level 100 druid to go quest with a buddy on their level 20 toon when I could be doing things that would actually benefit said level 100 druid in current content. Which is the entire point. The point is to get low level characters into current content as quickly as possible, not the other way around.
    And increased EXP while leveling with friends is just another form of Heirlooms / Guild Perk / RAF, which, incase you missed half the thread, are part of the problem of why leveling sucks in the first place.

    Do you even think before you post these things?

  16. #1336
    Yeah better they allow ppl use their free 90 now so they can actually learn and practice their class with actual raiding than just questing in WOD.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Surfd View Post

    Do you even think before you post these things?
    Yeah lol some ppl here are suggesting all these things like "OMG thy should do this blah blah when its ALREADY IN THE GAME. Its obvious ppl who are complaining don't know bout RAF, SOR, Elixir of knowlegde etc and all the ways that ppl have fasttracked to lv90 ALREADY. So what if ppl decide to use their boosts at lvl 60 ? cos they like vanilla levelling but Outlands and Northrend areas just suck for them would that make them better ?

  17. #1337
    Quote Originally Posted by Surfd View Post
    How would EITHER of those things fix the problem. Scaling Gear down? Who the hell would actually use that?. I am not going to "de-level" myself on my level 100 druid to go quest with a buddy on their level 20 toon when I could be doing things that would actually benefit said level 100 druid in current content. Which is the entire point. The point is to get low level characters into current content as quickly as possible, not the other way around.
    And increased EXP while leveling with friends is just another form of Heirlooms / Guild Perk / RAF, which, incase you missed half the thread, are part of the problem of why leveling sucks in the first place.

    Do you even think before you post these things?
    Calm down. You really do sound like a ridiculous teenager lashing out like that.

    I guess the problem is subjective. You believe the problem is having to be at end game doing the same thing you'd do as leveling. I see the problem as making the game fun again while reintroducing the social aspect. Right now, even at max level there isn't social interaction. They had an opportunity to introduce some form of that and to help the leveling problem.

    Instead, in classic Blizzard fashion, they cashed out and you're buying it.

  18. #1338
    Quote Originally Posted by Constraint View Post
    That's a very, very big conclusion to jump to.
    Think about another game you play with a cash option. We'll borrow SW:TOR for a moment. Let's say when you joined SW:TOR you got your first lvl 50 for free. Then, if you wanted a 2nd one, your choices were to level one for free OR shell out another $60 after you JUST PAID $60 for the game. I am not saying it is improbable a new player would use this service, I am simply saying a long term fan, with a desire to try a new class, who just cannot stand leveling a certain class, would take advantage of it more.

    Take your least favorite class, after how ever many years you've played. You know the one. The one you just can't get past lvl 37 (or whatever level it is). Now, you can level it for free to 90, or you can boost it. Which path do you choose? Now, you are a new player. You have never rolled that class before, you have no idea how frustrating it is. Are you gonna boost it? Or are you gonna give it a free try first? The new player will always TRY the class first, and pay later. The old player knows the classes and frustrations involved and will go right for the boost.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Ordinator View Post
    I've played WoW for years and I'm passionate about it. Blizzard selling boosts in their very own game is a giant hit to WoWs integrity, and in that regard it does effect me personally.
    I have too. Just got my 2nd loremaster title and colors on my 3rd account. The only way the boost could have been avoided was to go back into the zones, reduce the quests from 100 down to 15-20, increase the XP gained, tell the story faster in a more streamlined manner, reduce the time spent at certain hubs, move characters through EVERY zone in the game to get their XP, instantly add the FP to the next spot, and REMOVE XP FROM DUNGEONS.

    If Dungeons were for GEAR ONLY, people might take more interest in streamlined content. But, as it stands, we have the same old content for 4 years, we outlevel the zones we are in, we are not given the next FP in the chain, and Dungeon grinding is a more efficient method of getting to 90. So, until there is a complete revamp of EVERY ZONE IN THE GAME, and the quests are reduced to 15 instead of 100-130, people might take more interest in questing. Until then, this is just another bandaid like CRZ. Only difference is, those of us who haven't the urge to do 3500 quests per character anymore, or grind dungeons, would rather just pay the convenience fee to move past 40 hours of trivial leveling and get to the last 10 levels to see the current content.

    I'm sorry your game is changing, and that it is affecting you. But your anger is misplaced on the players. You should be more pissed at Blizz for a huge design flaw and an ever growing ceiling while not providing new low level content with the high level content. Maybe if ALL the quests changed, even slightly with each new expansion, it would feel like time is marching forward. Instead, Anything before Pandaria really belongs in the Caverns of Time.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Gray_Matter View Post
    I am sorry but I don't buy that (10 hours to 70). There are things that take time, moving between levels, getting gold for flying, bags, AH visits, etc. Without RAF, or any other boosts I can't see how that's possible. Even the power-leveling guys take 3-4 days to level a character to 80. That said the leveling process gets slower as you go.
    Anyone who hits 90 that fast: Is a monk, in BoA gear, with daily XP bonus, with lvl 25 guild perks, and tags in his roommates to play while he is asleep/at work.

    Anyone who is not a monk, with any of those perks, or said roommates, would take at leat 40 hours of play time. I would rather spend $60, and spend that same 40 hours getting to level 100 and then leveling my profs.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Ordinator View Post
    That means you can level while questing, doing dungeons, and battleground,
    And those of us who have exhausted those items as resources, including Pet Battles, Exploration, and multiboxing for the RaF bonus and group XP, a boost is the next step in the evolutionary chain. I took one character from 1-90 doing just pet battles at Half Hill in the surrounding area (since there are no mobs around). Took a week, but it kept me out of the dungeons, and the old world and gave me something new to do. That is the main issue. Finding something NEW in the old content. New expansions always focus on end game. They never change or add content for leveling. Not since Cata. I get that this bothers you, but you are just going to have to find a way to cope. Cause it is happening, and we will be taking advantage of it.

  19. #1339
    I am Murloc! rhorle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Michigan
    Posts
    5,619
    Quote Originally Posted by Ordinator View Post
    Then why didn't Blizzard address this problem instead of putting a very expensive band aid on it. People have offered solutions like scaling down gear so you can level with your friends, or increased exp boost while grouped with friends. Anything would be better than just saying "give us money and we'll give you lvls".
    Do RaF and you and your new friend can play together. You can summon him, get increased rep and experience, and grant levels. The level boost is addressing a very specific scenario, that of returning players. Level scaling still won't help them as they would still have to go through old content just to get to the new content that all of their friends are consuming.

    The same advantages people have said a boosted character gains by being boosted would be lost by scaling yourself down to help a friend. Scaling new content is silly and removes any drive to level. It would also have a whole slew of balance issues when a player doesn't have X ability because of their level not earning it yet. Balance is easier and works far better when the abilities players have are fixed.

    Besides this isn't a band aid. It is an evolution of RaF and SoR. Two popular programs for several years now. Programs that the community has embraced both for returning players, and for boosting their own characters up.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Ordinator View Post
    Instead, in classic Blizzard fashion, they cashed out and you're buying it.
    Nothing is stopping you from creating that social interaction yourself. Just being grouped with a low level person and helping them run instances, letting them ride on your two-person mount is enough to give them a boost to experience (through faster completion/kills). Blizzard hasn't cashed out. The only one not buying it is you, because you are not willing to do the fix you say is so much better.

    http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/8965476593 is a 11-16 hour power leveling service someone was selling for gold back in December (2013). You could do that for free for new players and use those same spots to boost them yourself. Teach them about their classes, impart knowledge.

    The problem is that most people who ask for more social activities are unwilling to do them when forced or when highly rewarded for doing them. It isn't something that they are willing to do when they have the choice to do so.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Ordinator View Post
    I've played WoW for years and I'm passionate about it. Blizzard selling boosts in their very own game is a giant hit to WoWs integrity, and in that regard it does effect me personally.
    Then you would know, if you've played for years, that Blizzard has sold boosts for years in the form of SoR and RaF. That integrity is not suddenly changed just because they are offering it in a item shop. They've also given them away for free during Cataclysm (with gear whose look was exclusive to SoR, boost, and a free copy of Cataclysm). The integrity of the game with stood that.

    I'm aggressively selfish because I support options for players? Everyone can level how they want, why is that bad? Someone buying levels won't impact you because Blizzard hasn't stopped support of leveling. Your leveling experience is exactly the same pre and post WoD boost. Blizzard also isn't gouging their player base as the boost is the cost of SoR yourself (they weren't gouging until now apparently) and is the cost of buying a second game license and leveling up the character yourself.

    The cost is also 4-5 months of game time (4x15, or 5x13). That isn't gouging their player base. It is pricing it at exactly what they said the direct sale of a boost is designed for. Replacing the Account Merge shuffle of buying multiple boosts. Even if Blizzard wasn't selling the boost directly the cost would be the same but you wouldn't be running around like a chicken with its head cut off about gouging, integrity, or aggressive selfishness.
    Last edited by rhorle; 2014-03-07 at 05:35 PM.
    "Man is his own star. His acts are his angels, good or ill, While his fatal shadows walk silently beside him."-Rhyme of the Primeval Paradine AFC 54
    You know a community is bad when moderators lock a thread because "...this isnt the place to talk about it either seeing as it will get trolled..."

  20. #1340
    Quote Originally Posted by Constraint View Post
    I'm still against the concept in general, but why slap a big pricetag on it, as opposed to making it a free service?

    If it's so irrelevant, and if it's driving new players away from the game (both arguments hold some merit) then why isn't there a free OPTION to skip the content?

    Pardon me for being cynical, but as a new player, buying WoD, MoP, battle chest etc, then receiving a free 90, then realizing if they want another character they have to either spend weeks in content for which they couldn't care less about (why would they care, they were able to skip it the first time) OR pay a whopping 60 DOLLARS (which is FAR more than the cost of a AAA game, for the record), you could imagine being more than a little peeved.

    If the content's tedious and irrelevant, either find a remedy to this or make it SKIPPABLE for everyone, not just those with disposable income. How does that make any sense whatsoever? Is only their time worth something? This is a FANTASY game - why should IRL circumstances come into the equation, beyond paying for the game and subscription in the first place?

    If the content's relevant and interesting, on the other hand, why offer the service to skip it in the first place? It still tells an amazing story, after all.

    I think we all know the answer to this though.

    $

    OT - cookies to whichever mod renames the thread to "Reasons" instead of "Reason's"
    Weeks? Have a friend who had never played and he got to 90 in less than a week. He quested and did dungeons and only played a few hours here and there because he has a job (so no playing the "he must have been on 24/7" card).

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •