1. #1
    Blademaster zofa's Avatar
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    Going from 10man to 25man today. Need advice.

    Hello everyone. Today my guild is going to have its first 25man raid.
    We are currently at 11/14 heroic in 10man and is aiming for getting as many bosses down as possible today in 25man.
    I would really appreciate some help, what's the biggest difference on the bosses, which bosses are going to be easier and which are going to be harder etc.
    How many healers do you generally need to run? We usually two heal all bosses except Juggernaut and Thok.

    Any help you can provide is greatly appriciated!
    Cheers!
    Druid Main - Dk - Hunter - Paladin - Monk

  2. #2
    Immortal Sigma's Avatar
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    3/14 heroic 25 man and progressing at a steady pace.
    we run 5-6 healer depending on the fight, not sure about later bosses as we have not long jumped into the heroic part of the game.

    Best thing to do is just have fun, if your clearing 11/14 then you will have no problems in a 25 man setting.
    Quote Originally Posted by Acelius View Post
    Sigma : Super Intelligent Giant Moldy Anchovy

  3. #3
    Incoming advice that "everything a billion times easier just faceroll".

    Get someone good at calling lots of raid cooldowns, a large part of 25's is using the cooldowns available to you.

    Norushen will probably be annoying, because there's a lot more adds and the same number of tanks. Nothing too bad though.

    You'll likely find it easier to cover everywhere on Immerseus.

    Sha of Pride will take a little more positional planning but shouldn't be too bad. Remember there's 4 prisons at once needing 12 people to break. Soaking rifts is super important because you need to collapse for banishment.

    Dark Shamans you might find easier with the cooldowns available to you. Be sure to 3 tank it.

    Malkorok you'll want 3-4 external cooldowns + Rook's trinket and personals on your tank if you're going to solo soak. 3-4 puddles can spawn together and they're a headache to coordinate sometimes. Remember you get 7 purple puddles at once and if you miss one you're probably dead.

    Spoils shouldn't really be any different.

    Thok usually needs a large raid cooldown every 2-3 shrieks starting at around 4. Chaining devotion auras is awesome if you can do it. On 25 you'll want to push at least 25 shrieks, 29 if possible. Pretty easy fight if you 8-heal it. Harder if you have less healers.

    Blackfuse if you weren't using a kill missiles and have mines on the platform strategy, you're likely going to want to start. 4 people should be able to do the belt reliably now. Blackfuse 25 usually lasts longer than Blackfuse 10 but shouldn't be as difficult while it lasts.

    Paragons is probably the hardest boss in the instance on 25, it's a mess.

    We six healed most things on progression, but drop to 5 healers for most fights now. 4 healed Blackfuse, 5 healed Paragons, 4 heal Garrosh. Still 7 heal Iron Juggernaut and Thok. On spoils we have 3 healers on mogu, one healer switches sides after the first room. Also we 3 tank Norushen, Nazgrim, Paragons and Garrosh to make it easier.
    Last edited by Nitros14; 2014-02-20 at 07:22 AM.

  4. #4
    This is my guild's 4th week running 25 man (two 10 man guilds merged that were both 6/14 heroic at the time of merge).

    Most bosses you'll be running 5 healers (you can 4 heal Norushen if you setup a good rotation [more on that below], 6 heals on Juggernaut)

    Immerseus, Sha, Galakras, Dark Shaman are all easier than their 10 man versions.

    Nazgrim and Juggernaut are about the same as their 10 man versions.

    Fallen Protectors and Norushen are significantly harder on 25 man. On Norushen, in 10 man we would regularly kill the boss with 60-90 seconds remaining on berserk timer and tanking big adds is a joke. On 25 man, our best kill left 12 seconds to enrage timer and that pull was UGLY. You really have to coordinate a kill order for DPS (some kill big add first, others kill little adds first) or you can get overwhelmed with big adds.

    I can't advise beyond Nazgrim as we're not there yet.

  5. #5
    Blademaster zofa's Avatar
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    I guess that I should also add that about 12 of us has 11/14, 15 have about 9/14 and about 5 people have little to no heroic experience. I understand that a lot of people has to learn the fights, but I don't want it to be a wreck where we wipe on immerseus for hours
    Druid Main - Dk - Hunter - Paladin - Monk

  6. #6
    You would be absolutely fine with 5 healers on pretty much everything except Jug. Also remember that you will have much more raid saves available in 25m. I would net recommend going 4 healers because some fights will be significantly different from their 10m counterpart (e.g. Norushen)

    As the difficulty goes, Immersus is much easier in 25m. He still has 50 stack and adds he spawns will be AoEd down in pretty much instant. Beware of pull lag: I own decent PC and my FPS drops down to 10 on the first add wave.

    Protectors are the same as in 10m.

    Norushen is significantly harder in my opinion. You will have to cleanse a lot more DPS, which means you can be easily overwhelmed with adds/orbs. Make sure that DPS go in groups and they know what kind of adds they should be killing dirst during their trial.

    Sha of pride is about the same difficulty as in 10m. You will have two more prisons and will not be able to gain damage/healing buff from Gift of the Titans, but banishments are super easy to deal with - just gather in the boss' model after each reflection and AoE down reflection adds. Banishment adds will go down with them.

    Galakras is super easy in 25m. Adds will take you a little longer to kill in 25m tough, but if you got to the boss phase it is virtually impossible to wipe.

    Iron Jug is easy, you just need 6+ healers to kill him. Also, it is important to type /range 6: barrage is deadly when you have 3+ people standing near you, and there is only so much space for 25 people.

    Dark shaman are melee DPS awareness check if you use 3-tank tactics. Can't say more: I am not a melee. For ranged DPS this fight is simple tank and spank with occasional movement.

    Nazgrim is pretty much the same as 10m. Just kill the adds, dont stand in fire and he will die.

    I havent tried Malkorok H 10m, but in 25m this fight is very demanding of each player personal skill. Soaking zones while not touching orbs is difficult, and in 25m a lot of people have FPS issues.

  7. #7
    High Overlord Axphyxiate's Avatar
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    I recently went through the same transition 3 weeks ago. We were 14/14HM and didn't have super high expectations for our first 25man raid because we had a lot of undergeared players and socials just to fill the 25 spots because we were a few short. In our first week we cleared up to and including Heroic Siegecrafter. We had a few pulls on Paragons but decided to leave it for the following week.

    We used our 10man strats for 25 mans and didn't really need to change too much. For Juggernaut we stayed in close-ish to the boss rather than running out and chaining CDs on 10man.

    The hardest boss in my opinion is going to be Siegecrafter. This took a night or two to kill. We used a strat where we killed lasers/magnets on the belt and just had the raid stacked near where the mines spawn and just aoe'd them down.

    Also I'd suggest turning off non-essential addons and turning your settings down. The input lag when the whole raid pops all their CDs is ridiculous!

    Best of luck!

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Axphyxiate View Post
    I recently went through the same transition 3 weeks ago. We were 14/14HM and didn't have super high expectations for our first 25man raid because we had a lot of undergeared players and socials just to fill the 25 spots because we were a few short. In our first week we cleared up to and including Heroic Siegecrafter. We had a few pulls on Paragons but decided to leave it for the following week.

    We used our 10man strats for 25 mans and didn't really need to change too much. For Juggernaut we stayed in close-ish to the boss rather than running out and chaining CDs on 10man.

    The hardest boss in my opinion is going to be Siegecrafter. This took a night or two to kill. We used a strat where we killed lasers/magnets on the belt and just had the raid stacked near where the mines spawn and just aoe'd them down.

    Also I'd suggest turning off non-essential addons and turning your settings down. The input lag when the whole raid pops all their CDs is ridiculous!

    Best of luck!
    This is almost exactly what happened with my guild.

    14/14HM 10 man guild, first week we breezed through 12/14H 25 man and one shot everything up to Malk which only took 2 tries, Thok took 7 pulls, then got Siegecrafter in 18 pulls. Did some attempts on Paragons, then extended this week and got it on Tuesday after 48 total attempts, currently progressing on Garrosh with 52 attempts so far, if we don't get it Sunday probably going to extend and try and down it.

    If you're currently 11/14HM you should be able to get up to seigecrafter rather easily, 25M really is easier as long as you have a raid leader who is good at calling out cooldowns. Assuming your raid is all high 560s low 570s you pretty much just outgear the first 11 bosses.

    Lag definitely sucks though, I actually bought a new GTX 770 just because I hated lagging in 25M, and even then I still get significant fps loss on Immerseus and Malk...
    Last edited by Strifey; 2014-02-21 at 11:37 PM.

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