Warrior 100 Talents changed.

[Archimtiros]

Was actually removed spells / abilities that did not seem essential to us. Many DPS classes found themselves combining several spells / abilities in the same macro to launch simultaneously. Warrior could for example create a macro with Recklessness and Banner skull. Therefore Banner skull was removed. We added some of its effects Recklessness.

Source

No idea what they mean by "some of its effects to Recklessness". Whether that means Reck will give some kind of raid benefit, or Reck is reworded to 'increases (your) critical strike chance and damage". My bet is they are removing the raid benefit from it, since Demo Banner is also getting removed (and likely Mocking as well).

[Requiel]

Source

No idea what they mean by "some of its effects to Recklessness". Whether that means Reck will give some kind of raid benefit, or Reck is reworded to 'increases (your) critical strike chance and damage". My bet is they are removing the raid benefit from it, since Demo Banner is also getting removed (and likely Mocking as well).

would seem reasonable since its a cd only warriors have, could also be a translation error.

[Archimtiros]

Thing is, I really hope they don't just combine the two. If Reck also does Skull Banner, then some RL will be tempted to tell their Warriors to stagger Reck for the benefit of the group. Might be a good idea, but its utter shit for the Warrior in question. At the same time, it sucks to remove raid utility, but how many raids were actually stacking Warrior for Skull Banners anyways? Not a damn one.

- - - Updated - - -

Despite all that, my gut tells me, it'll work as I said before; Reck will increase our Crit damage but will no longer have any raid wide benefit.

[Requiel]

Thing is, I really hope they don't just combine the two. If Reck also does Skull Banner, then some RL will be tempted to tell their Warriors to stagger Reck for the benefit of the group. Might be a good idea, but its utter shit for the Warrior in question. At the same time, it sucks to remove raid utility, but how many raids were actually stacking Warrior for Skull Banners anyways? Not a damn one.

- - - Updated - - -

Despite all that, my gut tells me, it'll work as I said before; Reck will increase our Crit damage but will no longer have any raid wide benefit.

It would be fair to have it removed as a raid wide cd but having it tied in reck and still be a raid wide cd would suck.

[Alonzo33]

so what u are saying actually that there is a change that banners will be removed from the game ?
i remember back then that GC and devs really like the banners gameplay, it was the cool new thing for warriors in MOP .

i cant see them take it away completly

[Archimtiros]

so what u are saying actually that there is a change that banners will be removed from the game ?
i remember back then that GC and devs really like the banners gameplay, it was the cool new thing for warriors in MOP .

i cant see them take it away completly

Well we know Skull Banner is getting removed and *somehow* rolled into Recklessness. Whether it remains a raid CD or not is to be seen, though I doubt it.
As per the videos, Demo Banner is gone.
Mocking Banner, I am unsure of, but I imagine it would be removed as well. It honestly doesn't get used very often anyways and doesn't make sense to leave 1 of 3 banners in game.

[Alonzo33]

Well we know Skull Banner is getting removed and *somehow* rolled into Recklessness. Whether it remains a raid CD or not is to be seen, though I doubt it.
As per the videos, Demo Banner is gone.
Mocking Banner, I am unsure of, but I imagine it would be removed as well. It honestly doesn't get used very often anyways and doesn't make sense to leave 1 of 3 banners in game.

those banners also where used for mobility ( i used it even in raids when i was in 10man guild )
the combination with those banners and intervene/safeguard is awsome and its also used alot by pvprs.
as for me , i really want them staying.

[Requiel]

Mocking Banner, I am unsure of, but I imagine it would be removed as well. It honestly doesn't get used very often anyways and doesn't make sense to leave 1 of 3 banners in game.

Its still in game currently , don't see why it would be removed considering that it looks like reckless was moved to a banner (and not banner moved into reck), it would leave 2/3 banners.

[Senen]

Reck, all t60 talents, t90 talents...not sure what else.

For all we know, CS could be affected by Readiness. Which would be very interesting but devalue Stormbolt for fury.

[Eranthe]

hamstring being passively applied is another step in the wrong direction. true, it's annoying when other classes have automatically applied snares, but i'd rather they remove it from all those classes than to just have everyone apply it passively.

why not just have no movement speed reductions if every class can passively apply them?

[Deleted]

Ya know he argued with me when I told him to include DPS numbers for each talent. That the interaction the talent has on the playstyle is more important (which it is). I told him "yup, and they are still going to retune things, but the majority of people only care about one thing: "how much dps will I get by taking this?"."

Just makes me chuckle is all.

Well in the end, I really would take IW in a heartbeat if there's not that much difference. I guess you already figured that out from my previous posts. :P But in the end I also raid in a Progression Guild, so I pretty much have to take that which is more effective DPS-Wise. Again, I also love our current playstyle a LOT. But ever since GoT S3 I also want to just set my fucking Weapons on Fire and hit something with them all day long.

[Archimtiros]

those banners also where used for mobility ( i used it even in raids when i was in 10man guild )
the combination with those banners and intervene/safeguard is awsome and its also used alot by pvprs.
as for me , i really want them staying.

I understand they are useful, but you could apply the same argument to keeping Disarm.
Long story short, if they are gonna remove buttons, 99% chance they will remove something somebody wants. And I think they would make the decision to keep/remove based on people using the ability as intended (mocking banner - to taunt) rather than as a mobility target.

I kind of agree with removing Demo Banner, no reason to have 2 (rather weak) raid CDs and Demo Banner was quirky to begin with due to the way its debuff worked. Obviously RC will be buffed to compensate, depending on what happens to other raid CDs.

- - - Updated - - -

Its still in game currently , don't see why it would be removed considering that it looks like reckless was moved to a banner (and not banner moved into reck), it would leave 2/3 banners.

The way the (badly) translated french post was worded; Skull Banner was being rolled into Recklessness. I saw the in game icon from the video too, and could be wrong but I am simply making educated guesses, removing even one banner, feels like they may all get the axe.

- - - Updated - - -

For all we know, CS could be affected by Readiness. Which would be very interesting but devalue Stormbolt for fury.

I wish, haha, but there's no way. Other than being a massive damage increase, it would completely undermine our rotation and cause very awkward CDR breakpoints.

We already know what CDR will effect, question is how many things it will effect.

- - - Updated - - -

hamstring being passively applied is another step in the wrong direction. true, it's annoying when other classes have automatically applied snares, but i'd rather they remove it from all those classes than to just have everyone apply it passively.

why not just have no movement speed reductions if every class can passively apply them?

I do think some things in the game are too widespread. I remember when only Warriors had Disarm and Mortal Strike and those started spreading to other classes. I agree with you in theory; I think movement reductions are important to melee classes; and don't know if I think that casters should really have them, but I also haven't PvP'd in many years so I don't comment much on them.

The idea I get though, is that they want to make the PvP playing field as even as possible (which it isn't, and never will be), so they make the tools more widespread instead of unique so that not as many people can complain that "they must have a Warrior for MS/Slows" or their team sucks.

[sjsctt]

Well we know Skull Banner is getting removed and *somehow* rolled into Recklessness. Whether it remains a raid CD or not is to be seen, though I doubt it.
As per the videos, Demo Banner is gone.
Mocking Banner, I am unsure of, but I imagine it would be removed as well. It honestly doesn't get used very often anyways and doesn't make sense to leave 1 of 3 banners in game.

If they remove banners that benefit the raid, tiers where we aren't so strong, such as ToT, we will see a lot of bench time.

[Archimtiros]

If they remove banners that benefit the raid, tiers where we aren't so strong, such as ToT, we will see a lot of bench time.

I can only imagine other classes would receive a similar treatment. I'm not gonna worry yet, but understand your concern.

[lunchbox2042]

I'm hoping they remove group raid utility from dps classes so people will quit whining about not being brought due to lack of utility. It's become more of an arms race the past two expansions because the class left out gets something then the next class complains.

[Darkfriend]

If they remove banners that benefit the raid, tiers where we aren't so strong, such as ToT, we will see a lot of bench time.

To be fair, warriors are arguably too strong now. Not that I'm complaining. But being the strongest strength DPS class, as well as having arguably the strongest or 2nd strongest set of raid cds/utility and personal CDs for strength DPS (maybe all melee IDK im tired) and great DPS is a bit on the OP side.

- - - Updated - - -

I'm hoping they remove group raid utility from dps classes so people will quit whining about not being brought due to lack of utility. It's become more of an arms race the past two expansions because the class left out gets something then the next class complains.

That is what DKs are complaining about now. If you have neither great DPS, or overall good utility, you cut back on the number of that class you want. Now you can do most fights with 1, maybe 2 dks max. While having 4 warriors isn't an issue (3 dps 1 prot)

[Painapple]

Well I am on board with waiting for more information on what happens to all classes before I start whining about what we're going to lose.

However, I would be very sad seeing banners go as I use them all the time for movement as would I be none too happy about the loss of shattering throw.

I personally favor less homogenization among classes, even though it might make the game harder to balance and might cause some cries about benching etc.

[Jalopy]

To be fair, warriors are arguably too strong now. Not that I'm complaining. But being the strongest strength DPS class, as well as having arguably the strongest or 2nd strongest set of raid cds/utility and personal CDs for strength DPS (maybe all melee IDK im tired) and great DPS is a bit on the OP side.

Kinda this. I don't think there's a single class with as much utility (offensive and defensive) as us right now.

[barackohmama]

So no raid buff. that sucks. No point bringing a warrior to raids then unless they make some changes that would make melee viable. Melee is laughed at already and most 10 man groups try to minimize melee dps.

[Deleted]

Only 15% Crit chance, they managed to make reck even worse.