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  1. #1

    Kicked from challenge mode cause I used pvp gear. When will pve'ers understand pvp

    So I have full grevious gear fully gemmed/enchanted/reforged for challenge modes. I do have pve trinkets, legs and weapon with socket.

    If you look at a pve item it usually has 4 stats: stam, int, crit, mastery (for example). If you look at a pvp item it has the same 4 stats + pvp power. You don't lose any other stats because you have pvp power. So for challenge modes where every item is ilvl 463 it's not any difference between pve and pvp items. The only difference is some small socket bonuses which gives pvp power, but I just lose around 300 int because of that, which is nothing when you're just going for gold medals. It's not like we're going for realm best.

    After quite many tries they got frustrated and just needed to kick someone and ofc I was chosen, even though I was not lowest on dmg. The reason: "You got pvp gear. Fuck off". I tried to explain how pvp geared worked, but their mind were already set.

    I enjoy both pve and pvp, but why do always pve'ers hate pvp'ers and refuse to understand anything about it?

  2. #2
    people are fools, idiots, ignorant, ect. its not a pve thing or pvp thing it is a people thing. as for why? the anonymity of the internet is a great thing
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  3. #3
    Pit Lord Adoxe's Avatar
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    In most cases I would kick you for having PvP gear as well, however for challenge modes I wouldn't mind at all. In fact, I had PvP gear on my warrior when I got CM Gold.
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  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by MdAlmighty View Post
    So I have full grevious gear fully gemmed/enchanted/reforged for challenge modes. I do have pve trinkets, legs and weapon with socket.

    If you look at a pve item it usually has 4 stats: stam, int, crit, mastery (for example). If you look at a pvp item it has the same 4 stats + pvp power. You don't lose any other stats because you have pvp power. So for challenge modes where every item is ilvl 463 it's not any difference between pve and pvp items. The only difference is some small socket bonuses which gives pvp power, but I just lose around 300 int because of that, which is nothing when you're just going for gold medals. It's not like we're going for realm best.

    After quite many tries they got frustrated and just needed to kick someone and ofc I was chosen, even though I was not lowest on dmg. The reason: "You got pvp gear. Fuck off". I tried to explain how pvp geared worked, but their mind were already set.

    I enjoy both pve and pvp, but why do always pve'ers hate pvp'ers and refuse to understand anything about it?
    It works, doesn't mean it's the best. If I had to kick someone from frustration my aim would be the one with pvp gear as well...I wouldn't invite anyone in PvP gear to begin with though.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by MdAlmighty View Post
    So I have full grevious gear fully gemmed/enchanted/reforged for challenge modes. I do have pve trinkets, legs and weapon with socket.

    If you look at a pve item it usually has 4 stats: stam, int, crit, mastery (for example). If you look at a pvp item it has the same 4 stats + pvp power. You don't lose any other stats because you have pvp power. So for challenge modes where every item is ilvl 463 it's not any difference between pve and pvp items. The only difference is some small socket bonuses which gives pvp power, but I just lose around 300 int because of that, which is nothing when you're just going for gold medals. It's not like we're going for realm best.

    After quite many tries they got frustrated and just needed to kick someone and ofc I was chosen, even though I was not lowest on dmg. The reason: "You got pvp gear. Fuck off". I tried to explain how pvp geared worked, but their mind were already set.

    I enjoy both pve and pvp, but why do always pve'ers hate pvp'ers and refuse to understand anything about it?
    Honestly, 300 INT is not a trivial amount at those scaled down gear levels. It's the equivalent of not bothering to use a food buff or not having a crafting profession, both of which would be considered completely unacceptable for most heroic raiding guilds. Considering that you can easily obtain better itemized challenge mode items through basic 5 man heroics in a couple of hours, I don't think it's that unreasonable to expect. Not bothering to do it makes you look lazy.

    The real question would be - what did the overall damage look like, as well as the survivability/amount of mistakes that were being made during the failed runs? Not taking the time to get properly itemized gear immediately makes you a target for your performance to be more heavily scrutinized if anything goes wrong. If you also had the weakest DPS or were dying the most often, that's probably the real reason, just the PvP gear set off the initial red flag.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Tiberria View Post
    Honestly, 300 INT is not a trivial amount at those scaled down gear levels. It's the equivalent of not bothering to use a food buff or not having a crafting profession, both of which would be considered completely unacceptable for most heroic raiding guilds. Considering that you can easily obtain better itemized challenge mode items through basic 5 man heroics in a couple of hours, I don't think it's that unreasonable to expect. Not bothering to do it makes you look lazy.

    The real question would be - what did the overall damage look like, as well as the survivability/amount of mistakes that were being made during the failed runs? Not taking the time to get properly itemized gear immediately makes you a target for your performance to be more heavily scrutinized if anything goes wrong. If you also had the weakest DPS or were dying the most often, that's probably the real reason, just the PvP gear set off the initial red flag.
    This is accurate.

    There's a reason that, for CMs, the best gear is anything with a buttload of primary stat sockets, because they don't get scaled down. PvP gear is passable in CMs, just like poorly itemized PvE gear is passable. But if you didn't make the effort to get optimal gear for some of the hardest content in game (my guild largely agrees that Gold CMs are harder than anything else in PvE, barring Heroic Raiding), that may be an issue for a lot of groups- and PvP gear is not optimal.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Tiberria View Post
    Honestly, 300 INT is not a trivial amount at those scaled down gear levels. It's the equivalent of not bothering to use a food buff or not having a crafting profession, both of which would be considered completely unacceptable for most heroic raiding guilds. Considering that you can easily obtain better itemized challenge mode items through basic 5 man heroics in a couple of hours, I don't think it's that unreasonable to expect. Not bothering to do it makes you look lazy.

    The real question would be - what did the overall damage look like, as well as the survivability/amount of mistakes that were being made during the failed runs? Not taking the time to get properly itemized gear immediately makes you a target for your performance to be more heavily scrutinized if anything goes wrong. If you also had the weakest DPS or were dying the most often, that's probably the real reason, just the PvP gear set off the initial red flag.
    Lol'd.
    Personal Skill and/or the correct class, thats matters.

    Little example:
    When they released CM's at the start of MoP I had around 12k Agility on my Hunter and we did Gold.
    Now, I have 16500 Agility on my Hunter in CM's.

    PvP Gear doesnt matters a single bit for CM (sometimes pvp items even got better stats than dungeon blues).
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  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Yindoo View Post
    Lol'd.
    Personal Skill and/or the correct class, thats matters.

    Little example:
    When they released CM's at the start of MoP I had around 12k Agility on my Hunter and we did Gold.
    Now, I have 16500 Agility on my Hunter in CM's.

    PvP Gear doesnt matters a single bit for CM (sometimes pvp items even got better stats than dungeon blues).
    Personal skill and correct class matters more. But it is not the only thing that matters, and especially now with the abundance of SoO gear with numerous red sockets, using PvP gear can come across as "making less of an effort."

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Yindoo View Post
    Lol'd.
    Personal Skill and/or the correct class, thats matters.

    Little example:
    When they released CM's at the start of MoP I had around 12k Agility on my Hunter and we did Gold.
    Now, I have 16500 Agility on my Hunter in CM's.

    PvP Gear doesnt matters a single bit for CM (sometimes pvp items even got better stats than dungeon blues).
    Sure, some PvP items have better itemization, so using a couple for that reason isn't likely to be an issue for people. Using all PvP gear says you are too lazy to take the time to actually prepare. While you don't necessarily NEED ideal gear, you are talking about a PUG CM, where it's highly unlikely that the group as a whole will be playing to a high end level. Every little bit helps in that environment. Plus, from my experience, 90% of the time, if people are too lazy to put the time in to get a somewhat appropriate set of gear prepared, they probably also aren't capable of playing their class to it's potential either.

  10. #10
    Banned ViridianWRA's Avatar
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    I did CMs on my Shaman in PVP gear (and a couple pieces on my Priest). It's really basically the same, but the socket bonuses ARE suboptimal.

  11. #11
    If you would kick someone for pvp gear do yourself a favor. Take a look at a 522 pve item from Oondasta and a 522 pvp item. They have almost exactly the same stats (usually 20-30 secondary stats difference). Only the socket bonus is a major difference between the two.

    Someone in all pve 522 gear vs. all 522 pvp gear would likely do 2% less dps. Stop thinking this is Wrath of the Lich King were Resilience took away from the stat budget and realize that pvp gear barely hurts performance at all in pve.

    In a challenge mode situation though, the PvPer is going to be significantly better at interrupts, dispels, CC, etc.
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  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Drakkmur View Post
    In a challenge mode situation though, the PvPer is going to be significantly better at interrupts, dispels, CC, etc.
    Why would that be? Unless the pve-er is terrible. And by extension pve-ers are terrible in general. Which is probably what you're trying to imply.

    I am pretty sure a good raider is just as able at making macros, targetting things and pressing buttons.

    And if they aren't they probably aren't as good a raider as they think they are. Lord knows I know a person or two in my guild that basically gets carried and is also a challenge mode hero.
    Last edited by Nitros14; 2014-02-22 at 04:00 AM.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Drakkmur View Post
    In a challenge mode situation though, the PvPer is going to be significantly better at interrupts, dispels, CC, etc.
    That isn't true, what you have actually said there is "In a PvE situation, the PvPer will be better"...

    There is a huge mix of people and skill ranges, but I'd see no reason as to why a PvP'er would be better at interrupts when you have two people of the same skill level.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Drakkmur View Post

    In a challenge mode situation though, the PvPer is going to be significantly better at interrupts, dispels, CC, etc.
    What the hell is this nonsense..

    Just no.

  15. #15
    Well for Cmodes, you're really looking for the item with the most sockets, and then the item with the best socket bonus.... PvP gear really doesn't fall under either catagory...

    For example, the Season 15, Prideful Glad chest piece has 2 sockets, (All classes are the same here) one Red, one Yellow, with a socket bonus of 120 PvP Power. While the Str chest piece from SoO, Breastplate of Shamanic Mirrors, has 3 sockets, 2 red, 1 yellow, and a 180 Str socket bonus. Which is far superior to your PvP gear.

    YES PvP is "Viable" to use in Cmodes. But if I'm pugging Cmodes with randoms, I would want to find people in the best gear possible, to ease past the fact that I've never played with any of these people before, and don't know how good they are, or how they play.
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  16. #16
    I would have kicked you too.

  17. #17
    A lot of pvp people that pve people meet are not nice. People being people will generally return the attitude with interest.

    Also, conforming to community norms is how to not get kicked out. Trying to get good gear for pve is getting pve gear with proper socket bonuses.

  18. #18
    I have challenge mode golds, and I can assure you, players using PvP gear for them are universally worse. I would have kicked you too.

    I understand your argument and you are correct; however, for a seasoned PvE player trying to PUG a player for challenge-modes, PvP gear is a huge yellow flag.

  19. #19
    PvP gear is far from optimal, the differences between the best PvE pieces and PvP pieces will be looking at a significant stat loss, if your going to do PvE content get the bloody gear it doesn't take long, the differences can be a class doing 70k instead of a class doing 100k which can make the difference in some gold runs if all the dps are not doing great.

    Gear you need to get is with maximum sockets preferably also with your main secondary stats on it.

    Using PvP gear is just meaning your too lazy and want to get mostly carried in a CM run.

    Quote Originally Posted by MdAlmighty View Post
    I tried to explain how pvp geared worked,
    PvP stats mean nothing in a PvE situation so your effectively losing 20% ish of your stat budget in favour of PvP items, so explaining how PvP gear works is effectively pointless since it bears nothing in CMs, get proper PvE gear or just don't do them.
    Last edited by kenn9530; 2014-02-22 at 04:38 AM.

  20. #20
    I would have kicked you too. I'd prefer to get someone who actually has proven PvE experience rather than some idiot who is full of excuses and flawed reasonings.

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