Prot Warrior Crit Build Questions

[Cyclonus-WOW]

Thanks Gliff. I was using the only info I could find.

If one of the tanks using the Prot Mastery>Crit build has any math. Would love to see it! I tweeted Sloot pointing him at this thread.

[Gliff]

Sloot comes around here sometimes and he has valid points for why he does what he does so you may get your wish. I've said it 100 times that there is no one way to do it. When I have gone crit (on PTR and live) I felt squishy. I cant remember my mastery levels and I don't have a Thokks tail tip so it may make a big difference but I doubt it. Other people may experience something else.

[Deleted]

Sloot comes around here sometimes and he has valid points for why he does what he does so you may get your wish. I've said it 100 times that there is no one way to do it. When I have gone crit (on PTR and live) I felt squishy. I cant remember my mastery levels and I don't have a Thokks tail tip so it may make a big difference but I doubt it. Other people may experience something else.

As you said, with not high enough mastery you could be squishy. I had tried it at some point (offspec) but i already had thok's. I had around 70% mastery as far as i can remember and i was nowhere near squishy, no dmg spikes, exactly the opposite. Now that ofc doesnt mean its better overall than the usual avoidance in dmg taken, but imo, it definately works if you like that playstyle and got the gear for it.

[RoidrageUS]

used crit build during progression like sloot until I hit heroic siege. felt I was getting hit way to hard. I switched to parry that day and stayed parry. both seem to be pretty equal in damage though.

Edit: 50% mastery comes to mind. could be completely wrong though

[Dascha]

I believe the problem with so called CRIT build is, its not actually "crit build" it is "mastery to the point and then crit"! and the whole idea is taking advantage of huge mastery (crit blocks) with smoothing the "rage starve" moments with high crit! defensively, i think this "mastery crit" build is a bit easier to play (at least what I felt) but it needs a better tank swap rotation because at the end of your 24sec shield block rotation....boss can literally wreck you.
on a fight like garrosh that prot warriors are there for DPS and not really tanking (you know what i mean).
so what i am trying to say is:
1-boss is mainly a melee attacker on that fight
2-we are there to burn the boss while tanking
3-we try to take full advantage of Glyph of Heavy Repercussions. so:
we go really heavy for shield block vs shield barrier. now my question is: who was thinking that a avoidance build ends up to have a better shield block than "MASTERY+crit" build?
so it really doesn't surprise me if a so called Crit tank( come on guys....these guys have over 12k mastery ) takes less damage than a avoidance tank on Garrosh...(would be nice if some1 can compare them on a fight like Thok i guess) but I don't understand how they can do more dps (kinda doubt that if its even the case) than a pure parry build warrior. cause they normally end up having:
1- less crit than Parry build(on my character at least)
2- less revenge procs
3- less advantage from Glyph of HtL

[Khorm]

Crit tanks are Crit > Parry > Dodge > Mastery.
Mastery tanks are Mastery > Crit > Mastery.
Riposte tanks are Parry > Dodge > Crit

True crit tanks have the highest DPS of all tanks as they gear as riposte tanks but then gem and reforge into crit.

[Dascha]

Crit tanks are Crit > Parry > Dodge > Mastery.
Mastery tanks are Mastery > Crit > Mastery.
Riposte tanks are Parry > Dodge > Crit

True crit tanks have the highest DPS of all tanks as they gear as riposte tanks but then gem and reforge into crit.

that's true....but with the definition u just gave...do we have any1 who has used Crit build for progress or even early farmings? cause tbh after clearing the raid for like 10 weeks i guess u can gem spirit and still kill the bosses! I was pointing to ...tanks like sloot and treckie on their warriors who use crit build which is actually "crit mastery" build (almost 75% mastery buffed or 12500 rating) then everything to crit!

[Warriorsarri]

But then again, why would you go for that build? You'll take more damage, and deal less damage, than an avoidance build, and you'll have less rage to put into barriers for when that's needed.

For Farm I can see why someone would want to try out a Crit riposte build, as it has the potential of greatness. For progress on the other hand you'd just put more stress on the healers, and it may impact on whether or not you'll be able to pull of solo-tanking some bosses, as you may lack the rage to pull of efficient barriers.

[Artorius]

Well, the only reason to use it as a progression setup is if you're a DPS who needed to tank for some reason and there is no other choice for you.

[Dascha]

But then again, why would you go for that build? You'll take more damage, and deal less damage, than an avoidance build, and you'll have less rage to put into barriers for when that's needed.

For Farm I can see why someone would want to try out a Crit riposte build, as it has the potential of greatness. For progress on the other hand you'd just put more stress on the healers, and it may impact on whether or not you'll be able to pull of solo-tanking some bosses, as you may lack the rage to pull of efficient barriers.

thanx...that was my question which got lost in my long and bad written post i cant see how a crit build warrior would pull more dps than a reposte build...because of the 3 reasons i mentioned at the end of the post!

[Altais]

Love posts like this

[Khorm]

that's true....but with the definition u just gave...do we have any1 who has used Crit build for progress or even early farmings? cause tbh after clearing the raid for like 10 weeks i guess u can gem spirit and still kill the bosses! I was pointing to ...tanks like sloot and treckie on their warriors who use crit build which is actually "crit mastery" build (almost 75% mastery buffed or 12500 rating) then everything to crit!

I used it in 10m up until Garrosh where the guild broke and I left for a 25m who already had a few kills and kept it there. This was with an ilvl ranging from 555 - 572 on progression. The only bosses that do substantial sustained melee damage is Paragons and Garrosh. On Garrosh you can have your 24s of shield block uptime every time you take the boss and add in Barriers and DS if it drops. Even with this build you will have around 40% mastery buffed. You have high rage generation due to having high crit but also fairly high parry for Revenge.

I have about 33% crit buffed which then goes to 53% under Riposte and I use Crit/Dodge elixir which ups it even more along with River's Song which takes me to over 60% when it procs.

As long as you aren't dying or someone else isn't dying because of a healer having to heal you then use it.

[Promdates]

you will have around 40% mastery buffed. I have about 33% crit buffed which then goes to 53% under Riposte and I use Crit/Dodge elixir which ups it even more along with River's Song which takes me to over 60% when it procs.

For reference, with an avoidance build it's not too difficult to reach low 50's for crit with riposte. You just have a lot less without riposte, so it's important to try to keep it up as much as possible. The BIS avoidance list going around gives you about 50% crit with riposte and 40% mastery or so.

[Khorm]

For reference, with an avoidance build it's not too difficult to reach low 50's for crit with riposte. You just have a lot less without riposte, so it's important to try to keep it up as much as possible. The BIS avoidance list going around gives you about 50% crit with riposte and 40% mastery or so.

I have BiS HWF for riposte except using HWF crit/hit boots and HWF exp/mast shield. Going off my crit rating I get 6% more crit than a riposte build if I put all that rating into parry/dodge. I can't see BiS Riposte going to low 50's.

[Gotfood]

So is Crit > Avoidance tanking? or depends on fight/raid group

[idefiler6]

depends on fight/raid group

this /10char

[Promdates]

I have BiS HWF for riposte except using HWF crit/hit boots and HWF exp/mast shield. Going off my crit rating I get 6% more crit than a riposte build if I put all that rating into parry/dodge. I can't see BiS Riposte going to low 50's.

I have 5.8% crit base (the .8 is from Skinning, yes it's a shitty profession, but my warrior originally was just a skinning/lw alt, and fuck leveling skinning again), 41.32% from riposte (d/p/e 12058+20250+750=33058*.75=24793.5/600=41.321666), and another 1.25% from the crit elixir, and then 2% from raid buff (subtracting the crit reduction to boss).

So, at minimum 5+41.32+1.25+2 is 49.57% before procs. Could possibly even get it higher, as I'm missing 1-2 items and a few item upgrades.

[Deleted]

If you're dead set on tanking with a crit build, you want as much crit as you can get, so use the dps gear.

Well, if you are maxing crit, you are better off picking items with avoidance, if it has both stats. If it only has 1 stat - go for dps gear. Crit gemming obviously.

[Khorm]

I have 5.8% crit base (the .8 is from Skinning, yes it's a shitty profession, but my warrior originally was just a skinning/lw alt, and fuck leveling skinning again), 41.32% from riposte (d/p/e 12058+20250+750=33058*.75=24793.5/600=41.321666), and another 1.25% from the crit elixir, and then 2% from raid buff (subtracting the crit reduction to boss).

So, at minimum 5+41.32+1.25+2 is 49.57% before procs. Could possibly even get it higher, as I'm missing 1-2 items and a few item upgrades.

I am talking about before elixirs or raid buffs. Your crit % is 46.1% by yourself with Riposte while mine is 53.7%. They're not big differences though the crit difference is massive when not under riposte. With intervene and different strategies there are many times a Warrior could have enough vengeance to do big numbers but not have the crit to back it up. The difference then goes from 7% to 23%

We're well past progression now and this discussion will become moot when WoD hits.