Page 1 of 18
1
2
3
11
... LastLast
  1. #1
    Stood in the Fire Zabannith's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    NS, Canada
    Posts
    433

    6.0 Paladin Discussion and Speculation (All Specs)

    With the potential of a beta announcement right around the corner, I feel we should start compiling what we currently know in one easy to find spot , Right now we should start with what we currently know from blizzcon and what people may have heard or seen from twitter and blue posts.

    REMEMBER ALL OF THIS IS SUBJECT TO CHANGE (Newest news will be at the bottom)

    General WoD Information:

    New Secondary Item Stats:




    New Tertiary Item Stats: These stats will not be on any budget at all and will randomly 'generate' on gear pieces.
    • Speed: Movement Speed that will stack with other speed buffs
    • Sturdiness: Indestructible equip; NO durability losses
    • Avoidance: Reduces AoE damage taken
    • Lifesteal: Damage you deal to enemies heals you
    • Cleave: Increased AoE damage -GONE, SEE TWEET https://twitter.com/Celestalon/statu...30067424522241



    • Hit and Expertise removed.
    • Reforging also removed,
    • Dodge and parry removed from gear(tanks will still be able to dodge and parry ,how this will be achieved is unknown at this point maybe some abilities will give passive dodge/parry for x amount of seconds or something?), (what will this mean for str dps vs agi and int dps?)
    • Meta gems and socket bonuses will be gone.

    What do these extra stats mean for us? whats good for prot, ret and holy?

    Current Talent Information:
    (screens taken from wow wiki, note there's spelling errors on some of these such as divine connection (it's suppose to be divine conviction))


    We will also have our Skills and Abilities change as we level from 90-100

    • Warlords of Draenor introduces a new bonus system that rewards players with powerful perks as they level up to the new cap. At every level from 91 to 100, characters will earn a major permanent boost to one of their their key spells and abilities (e.g. a Fire Mage might earn a +50% damage boost to Pyroblast or +30% boost to Scorch). Players will also unlock a new talent tier once they’ve achieved level 100, rewarding each class with three potent new abilities to choose from.

    What will this mean for us? anybody have any possible ideas?

    Feel Free to add to and post what you may have found below.
    Now Discuss my Fellow Paladins!
    ----Update Feb/26/14----

    NEWS ABOUT SEAL OF FAITH :

    So it looks like we will have a new as of yet unknown talent , here's hoping we will see it soon
    ----Update Feb/27/14----

    Well, Looks like we can't even begin to do any theorycrafting at all if we have 25 unique talents in pre-alpha states thigns will get changed so much , as always leave paladin changes til last an we end up broken until the last tier of the expansion


    ----Update Feb/28/14----

    Racial abilities that apply to us
    • Humans will gain a redesigned The Human Spirit, which will add to two secondary stats of your choice. Every Man For Himself may or may not be changed, based on itemization changes.
    • Dwarves gain Might of the Mountain, a 2% crit damage/healing racial, and Stoneform now removes curses and magic effects, but still does not break CC and can't be used while CC'd.
    • Draenei Heroic Presence will now add to a primary stat of your choice. Gift of the Naaru now heals over five seconds.
    • Tauren racial Endurance becomes +X Stamina, while a new racial named Brawn increases their critical damage/healing.
    • Blood Elves gain the new Arcane Acuity racial (passive 1% crit) and Arcane Torrent now affects all resources, not just mana/rage.

    ----Update Mar/0714----


    As per the Dev water cooler some info for people who do the healing thing
    • Paladin Higher Efficiency: Holy Light, Holy Shock, Word of Glory, Light of Dawn
    • Paladin Higher Throughput: Flash of Light, Holy Radiance
    • Eternal Flame and Word of Glory now each have a 1.5-second cast time when specced Holy.
    • Light of Dawn now has a 1.5-second cast time.
    • All of this discussion of efficiency may cause most healers to start worrying about mana regeneration and their mana pool. To allay those concerns, we’ve increased base mana regen a great deal at early gear levels, while having it scale up less at later gear levels. This will make all of these changes play well even in early content such as Heroic Dungeons and the first tier of Raid content, and also play well in the final Raid tier without mana and efficiency becoming irrelevant due to extremely high regeneration values.
    • Finally, we're removing the low-throughput, low-mana-cost heals like Nourish, Holy Light, Heal, and Healing Wave -Say goodbye to Holy Light in it's current form
    • Smart heals will now randomly pick any injured target within range instead of always picking the most injured target. Priority will still be given to players over pets, of course.
    • Heals based on a percentage of maximum health are being effectively buffed by the massive increase to player health pools, so we’re lowering those percentages to offset the effect.
    • We're toning down the power of absorbs in general. When they get too strong, absorption effects are often used in place of direct healing instead of as a way to supplement it. We will, of course, take these changes into account when tuning specializations that rely heavily on absorbs.
    • Ideally, we want players to spend some time below full health without having healers feel like the players they’re responsible for are in danger of dying at any moment. We also think that healer gameplay would be more varied, interesting, and skillful if your allies spent more time between 0% and 100%, rather than just getting damaged quickly to low health, forcing the healer to then scramble to get them back to 100% as quickly as possible.

    ----Update Mar/07/14----


    Apparently LoH is not affected by the nerf to % based heals


    ----Update Apr/03/14----



    NEW INFOS ARE HERE!!! SOURCE
    We now know what abilities are gone
    • Avenging Wrath is now only available to Retribution Paladins.
    • Devotion Aura is no longer available to Protection Paladins.
    • Divine Light has been renamed Holy Light.
    • Divine Plea has been removed. Mana costs for Paladins have been adjusted accordingly.
    • Guardian of Ancient Kings is now only available to Protection Paladins.
    • Hand of Salvation has been removed.
    • Holy Light has been removed.
    • Inquisition has been removed.
    • Divine Favor now also increases all of the Paladin’s healing by 100% for its duration.
    • Denounce's range has increased to 40 yards (up from 30 yards).
    • Hammer of the Righteous now deals 50% Physical weapon damage (up from 15%) to the primary target, but the primary target is no longer hit with the Holy damage.
    • Seals no longer cost any mana.
    • Stay of Execution (the Holy version of Execution Sentence) now deals its healing in a large burst at first, and then decreasing over time (reversed from before).
    • Eternal Flame now deals 100% of the direct healing of Word of Glory (up from 70%), but only 50% as much periodic healing as before. Additionally, Bastion of Glory no longer affects the periodic healing.
    • Eternal Flame now has a 1.5-second cast time (up from instant cast) for Holy Paladins.
    • Light of Dawn now has a 1.5-second cast time (up from instant cast).
    • Word of Glory now has a 1.5-second cast time (up from instant cast).
    • Guarded by the Light (Protection) now also makes Word of Glory and Eternal Flame instant cast.
    • Sword of Light (Retribution) now also makes Word of Glory and Eternal Flame instant cast
    • Holy Insight no longer increases the chance to hit with spells.
    • Sanctuary now also reduces the chance for attacks to be parried by 3%.
    • Mastery: Divine Bulwark now also passively increases Attack Power by 12% (percentage increased by Mastery), in addition to its current effects.
    • For Paladins, we have a few tweaks in store. To compensate for the removal of Guardian of Ancient Kings from Holy, we merged its benefit into Divine Favor. We also raised the range of Denounce to be consistent with other spells. And for Hammer of the Righteous, we revised its functionality a bit, such that its performance is about the same, but its tooltip is much clearer.
    • As part of a push to combine the different types of Haste in the game as much as possible, we merged Spell Haste and Attack Speed into just Haste, which benefits everyone.
    • Blinding Light has been removed.
    • Repentance's cast time has been increased to 1.8 seconds.
    • Turn Evil's cast time has been increased to 1.8 seconds and now has a 6 second duration in PvP (down from 8 seconds).



    UPDATED T100 TALENTS

    Left
    • Beacon of Faith (Holy) - Mark a second target as a Beacon, mimicking the effects of Beacon of Light. 60 yd range, Instant, 3 sec cooldown
    • Empowered Seals (Protection, Retribution) - Your Seals also cause your Judgment to empower you with an additional beneficial effect which persists through changing Seals:
      Judgment of Justice - Increases your movement speed by 10% for 20 sec.
      Judgment of Insight - Heals you for 3% of your maximum health every 2 sec for 20 sec.
      Judgment of Righteousness - Increases your attack speed by 10% for 20 sec.
      Judgment of Truth - Increases your attack power by 10% for 20 sec.
      Middle
    • Beacon of Insight (Holy) - Places a beacon of insight on an ally, increasing their healing recieved from your next direct single-target heal within 1 min by 30%. When consumed, or when the target reaches full health, it moves to the most injured ally within 40 yards. Limit 1. 320 Mana, 40 yd range, Instant, 15 sec cooldown
    • Seraphim (Protection, Retribution) - The Light temporarily magnifies your power, increasing your Haste, Critical Strike, Mastery, Multistrike, and Bonus Armor from gear by 30% for 10 sec. 5 Holy Power, Instant, 30 sec cooldown
      Right
    • Saved by the Light (Holy) - When you or your Beacon of Light target drop below 30% health, you instantly grant the injured target a protective shield, absorbing up to 30% of their maximum health for 10 sec. You cannot shield the same person this way twice within 1 min.
    • Holy Shield (Protection) - Increases your block chance by 10%, and when you block, you deal XXXX Holy damage to your attacker.
    • Final Verdict (Retribution) - Empowers your weapon with holy energy, and performs a devastating strike, dealing 210% weapon damage as Holy. Replaces Templar's Verdict. 3 Holy Power, 10 yd range, Instant, Requires Melee

    ----Update Apr/05/14----


    NEW GLYPHS
    • Glyph of Ardent Defender - Ardent Defender no longer reduces damage taken, but if its duration expires without being consumed, its cooldown will be reset to 60 sec.
    • Glyph of the Consecrator - Your Consecration effect now moves with you.
    • Glyph of Divine Favor - Reduces all mana costs while Divine Favor is active by 25%, but Divine Favor increases healing done by 50% less.
    • Glyph of the Liberator - Hand of Freedom's cooldown is reduced by 5 sec when not cast on self.
    • Glyph of Hand of Freedom - Hand of Freedom immediately reduces the remaining duration of all effects which cause loss of control of a character by 25%. Any additional loss of control effects applied within 10 sec also have 25% reduced duration.
    • Glyph of Judgment - Increases the range of Judgment by 10 yards.

    Devo is holy only now
    Last edited by Zabannith; 2014-04-05 at 07:21 PM. Reason: Edited for Formatting/clarity

    New Ability: Renounce. When cast, Renounce permanently changes the Paladin into a Warrior.

  2. #2
    Mechagnome Slirith's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Florida
    Posts
    504
    I hope that out of all the lvl 100 talents Seal of Faith is either removed or changed as it's meh compared to the other two(imo anyways)

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DHpPKgi-niI
    How I feel about healers that try to DPS

  3. #3
    I hope Seal of Faith has its uses in WoD. It would be extremely boring to use Final Verdict for most enocunters. Same goes for The Light Within, but that's just an extremely boring talent overall. I can see The Light Within be worth it if Righteousness and Truth buffs stack, but that's about it.

  4. #4
    Stood in the Fire Zabannith's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    NS, Canada
    Posts
    433
    Keep in mind that we know for a fact that they have already changed some talents for warriors (you can see the new talents in the recent vids) who's to say they haven't changed some of ours... its just unfortunate that in those vids all we saw were warrior rogue hunter and warlock game play

    New Ability: Renounce. When cast, Renounce permanently changes the Paladin into a Warrior.

  5. #5
    The light within is actually pretty interesting if different judgement bonuses stack. it brings back the vanilla and TBC act of seal weaving.

    But I agree SoF has no place, especially the ret version. as it stands, we got 1 great talent and one decent talent. That final talent is just a pile of shit which has no place in a DPS tree.

  6. #6
    Stood in the Fire Zabannith's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    NS, Canada
    Posts
    433
    I'm actually sort of interested in seal of faith from a holy pvp point of view.. could we see a viable shockadin?

    New Ability: Renounce. When cast, Renounce permanently changes the Paladin into a Warrior.

  7. #7
    it is really dissapointing to see holy shield be brought back to a passive, i liked the old version better ><

  8. #8
    Stood in the Fire Zabannith's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    NS, Canada
    Posts
    433
    That being said I think seal of faith will be the least used talent. more of a niche thing , we know holy will take light within for 2 beacon targets ,and prot and ret will both take diving conviction.

    Regarding The light within. do you guys think that judgment of justice will stack with long arm for example? that would be 55% move speed for 3 seconds then 10% for 17 more seconds , plus the 50% move snare applied from seal of justice for 8 seconds

    Also it says judge of justice for prot AND ret , currently prot doesn't have seal of justice , does this mean prot will gain this ret only seal?

    Do you think they will change seal of insight so it wont heal prot anymore? thus forcing them judge insight for the HoT? or choose Holy Shield with divine conviction? a HoT or 10% passive block and a thorns effect when they do?

    After writing this I'm a little worried that seals may get an overhaul so they don't become too powerful with that talent
    Last edited by Zabannith; 2014-02-22 at 08:12 PM.

    New Ability: Renounce. When cast, Renounce permanently changes the Paladin into a Warrior.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Zabannith View Post

    General WoD Information

    New Secondary Item Stats:
    Cleave: Increased AoE damage

    Hit and Expertise removed. Reforging also removed, Dodge and parry as well , (what will this mean for str dps vs agi and int dps?)
    Cleave is a tertiary stat. Dodge and parry will be removed from items but not from the game, strength and agi will still give parry and dodge.

  10. #10
    From a PvE standpoint these talents are terrible for holy.

    Double beacon is highly overrated, but is shaping up to be the only remotely viable talent to use in that tier.
    To be human is to possess superior intelligence to other species, yet channel that otherwise-wondrous potential into the most degenerate of endeavors rather than benefiting the world.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Slirith View Post
    I hope that out of all the lvl 100 talents Seal of Faith is either removed or changed as it's meh compared to the other two(imo anyways)
    I hope all seals get changed, they are too weak. I miss lk powerful seals.

  12. #12
    For Prot: I'm curious how The Light Within (TLW) will work.

    I personally remember seal twisting with some fondness, however in the current active mitigation model, which Bliz said they want to keep, wasted GCDs are the worst thing for a tank to deal with.

    If TLW doesn't make switching a seal not cost a global, then the math for the bonus will have to show that the 20 second buffs, of say Insight and Truth, will have to be worth the lost GCDs, compared to either a HP Spender or Filler. Obviously Generators will take highest priority.

    I only have one question regarding secondary stats which revolves around Readiness: are the same abilities going to be affect per class, as the readiness trinkets now? If so then some readiness will be in demand from the Prot perspective, almost to the point of creating a new soft cap. With the Amplify stat, combined with Eternal Flame and Execution sentence (since with both the HoT ticks can crit) it may make haste/crit/amp builds fairly effective. Crit already, when spec-ing those two talents, comes ahead of Dodge and Parry Rating, after you hit 50% haste so the foundation for it's attractiveness is already there.

    As for the tertiary stats, Avoidance and Movement speed seem to be the most useful. Indestructible Seems to be generic consolation prize type thing (hey your repair costs are a bit lower, enjoy your wipes). Life steal seems the least useful from a tank perspective, especially considering how they want to nerf tank damage to about 75% of a DPS spec. I guess with life steal it will depend how much of if you have to stack per percent: If you can stack enough to get to say 25+% life steal then it might be worth it, basically turning all specs into Blood Dks, but if you can get all pieces of gear with +Life Steal and only break 5%, then it will be just another thing to pad the over healing meters.
    Last edited by Raeph; 2014-02-22 at 09:51 PM.

  13. #13
    Bloodsail Admiral Elovan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    In my chair (unless I'm on the floor...)
    Posts
    1,027
    Quote Originally Posted by Rogal Dorn View Post
    Cleave is a tertiary stat. Dodge and parry will be removed from items but not from the game, strength and agi will still give parry and dodge.
    Bumping this for clarity, edits should go out on OP.

  14. #14
    Scarab Lord nightfalls's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    Rochester, NY
    Posts
    4,333
    Quote Originally Posted by PosPosPos View Post
    From a PvE standpoint these talents are terrible for holy. Double beacon is highly overrated, but is shaping up to be the only remotely viable talent to use in that tier.
    Viable? Sure. Remotely interesting? Hell no.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by nightfalls View Post
    Viable? Sure. Remotely interesting? Hell no.
    Think of how interesting it will be to watch all those overhealing numbers fly up twice as fast as we have them now! I can't wait!

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by nightfalls View Post
    Viable? Sure. Remotely interesting? Hell no.
    Obviously. It actually means less gameplay for us since beacon swapping would not be needed anymore.

    At this point though, I am more worried about our performance in raids as opposed to compelling gameplay, I don't want another tier where we are bottom of the totem pole with no real alternative. Even holy priests get to run disc if they really feel weak or unwanted in raids.
    To be human is to possess superior intelligence to other species, yet channel that otherwise-wondrous potential into the most degenerate of endeavors rather than benefiting the world.

  17. #17
    Stood in the Fire Zabannith's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    NS, Canada
    Posts
    433
    Quote Originally Posted by PosPosPos View Post
    I don't want another tier where we are bottom of the totem pole with no real alternative. Even holy priests get to run disc if they really feel weak or unwanted in raids.
    From a Ret PoV I can sympathize with you with this one , I hope we are more desirable , I'm tired of the if you got a prot and holy in your raid bench the ret and bring a warrior or rogue instead stigma.

    - - - Updated - - -

    OP edits are out , hope it's easier to read now

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Zabannith View Post

    New Secondary Item Stats:
    • Multistrike: Attacks can proc a second, weaker, version of itself
    • Amplitude: Increased Critical Strike damage
    • Readiness: Shorter Cooldowns

    From a ret pov I don't think multi strike or amplification will be much good for us we attack too slow and we are not really based around crit so those 2 stats will be diminished , however readiness i think will have some value because of how reliant we are on cds for our dps , however this can be said for any dps spec....

    New Ability: Renounce. When cast, Renounce permanently changes the Paladin into a Warrior.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Demsi View Post
    it is really dissapointing to see holy shield be brought back to a passive, i liked the old version better ><
    There's nothing in the talent that says Holy Shield is going to be passive, which confuses me. Other talents note whether it's a passive or activated effect, except Holy Shield.

  19. #19
    It still depends on fight. I can see The Light Within being worth it on several encounters if both truth and righteousness stack. As much as "big holy critz" templar verdicts sound fun, any cleave/aoe fight will diminish it severely.

    If they stack, 20% attack speed will be a pretty big deal from Seal of Righteousness damage and exorcism damage.

  20. #20
    Stood in the Fire Zabannith's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    NS, Canada
    Posts
    433
    Quote Originally Posted by etsumii92 View Post
    It still depends on fight. I can see The Light Within being worth it on several encounters if both truth and righteousness stack. As much as "big holy critz" templar verdicts sound fun, any cleave/aoe fight will diminish it severely.

    If they stack, 20% attack speed will be a pretty big deal from Seal of Righteousness damage and exorcism damage.
    May be worth it if seals are off the GCD , but 2 total gcd to switch to Righteousness, then back to truth wont be worth the HP loss for single target scenarios to stack the buffs I'm afraid , and if it is , I doubt it will be better than FV . Until we get some beta numbers its all speculation at this point I'm afraid.

    New Ability: Renounce. When cast, Renounce permanently changes the Paladin into a Warrior.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •