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  1. #141
    Quote Originally Posted by etsumii92 View Post
    Incredibly OP for any council/cleave fight. You'd have 100% uptime of Vengeance as well as them taking increasing holy damage from debuffs. You could easily have 3x5 stacks up at a time.

    If it soaked stacks from all targets, it would need a cap and as such would be useless to activate.
    I was thinking maybe prevent Inquisition stacks from applying during Vengeance?
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  2. #142
    Quote Originally Posted by Butler Log View Post
    I was thinking maybe prevent Inquisition stacks from applying during Vengeance?
    You'd still have existing stacks out there. Imagine having 10 mobs out there fully stacked through exo glyph/Hotr, then pop this, pop cds and divine storm.

    Besides the point. It'd be much stronger than the current inquisition, and that's not really something we need right now.

  3. #143
    The idea I had was to change Inq from a boring (as most seem to classify it) passive that buffs your damage, into something that actually DOES damage. Yeah, sure it would only be useful for mobs that live long, but then again, who bothers to keep inq up at trash? I personally dont mind inq, but if it was a ST dot that hits hard, it wouldn't feel so... Well boring to pop inq.

  4. #144
    Quote Originally Posted by DonTirri View Post
    The idea I had was to change Inq from a boring (as most seem to classify it) passive that buffs your damage, into something that actually DOES damage. Yeah, sure it would only be useful for mobs that live long, but then again, who bothers to keep inq up at trash? I personally dont mind inq, but if it was a ST dot that hits hard, it wouldn't feel so... Well boring to pop inq.
    I'm pretty hardcore about keeping inq up, myself. I get what you want but essentially you're replacing TV/DS as a finisher, which I don't think we need. I'd rather see TV just hit hard enough without Inq. To some extent any ability that we use rotationally is going to become 'just a button we hit' unless everything becomes based on reacting to procs.

  5. #145
    Quote Originally Posted by DonTirri View Post
    The idea I had was to change Inq from a boring (as most seem to classify it) passive that buffs your damage, into something that actually DOES damage. Yeah, sure it would only be useful for mobs that live long, but then again, who bothers to keep inq up at trash? I personally dont mind inq, but if it was a ST dot that hits hard, it wouldn't feel so... Well boring to pop inq.
    Who doesn't keep inq up during trash? It's 3 globals --> 1 button and should last though most of the trash. That kind of logic is just silly.

    If inq was changed into a strong ST dot, you'd simply be benched for any cleave/aoe fight during progress.

    I mean, arguing that inq should be fun and do damage is like arguing about a boss mechanic being boring. If you can't sit on a boss 100%, is that fight boring/broken and need change?

  6. #146
    Getting sat out from aoe/cleave fights is not a good argument either, since we're already badly hurting on ST-department, and if Blizz retains a similar design philosophy they had in SoO (i.e aoe/cleave is mainly meterpadding/nice to habe but not mandatory and ST matters most, prime examples being spoils, paragons, garrosh, siegecrafter and shamans if melee etc) then more ST at the expense of cleave is a fair trade imo.

  7. #147
    Stood in the Fire Monoroth's Avatar
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    All these suggestions to make inq gameplay interesting and exciting have a good potential, but i think most of them lack one part of current inq gameplay which is fast target switching. If you lok at SoO boses almost every fight has some add which you need to nuke within secs. With current model we'r one of the best specs on quick target switch fights as we barely lose anything while switching. Most of inq changes that were suggested are focusing on building/stacking dots on target, just remember how much rogues want ret style of hopo for combo points and some of these changes are bringing us closer to one part of rogue gameplay and problems.

    While suggestions above look promising for single target it may suffer on mass aoe packs unless we'r fighting windlord where inq could tick for full duration. I think they should keep current model of inq or bake it in.
    Damn its anoying to type so much from phone, appologies for bad typos.

  8. #148
    Quote Originally Posted by DonTirri View Post
    Getting sat out from aoe/cleave fights is not a good argument either, since we're already badly hurting on ST-department, and if Blizz retains a similar design philosophy they had in SoO (i.e aoe/cleave is mainly meterpadding/nice to habe but not mandatory and ST matters most, prime examples being spoils, paragons, garrosh, siegecrafter and shamans if melee etc) then more ST at the expense of cleave is a fair trade imo.
    The cleave/aoe we have make up for our single target dps (which btw is not as horrible as people make it out to be). Removing Inquisition from aoe (more than 30% of aoe. Factor in Crit) to increase single target would have to be a big enough buff to make us worth it single target and single target only. If that was the case, why would you not stack ret paladins where single target matters?

    If our single target was buffed to that point, we'd be considered broken. That is why I think it's a bad idea.

  9. #149
    The more I think about it, the more I think Inquisition can't be made 'fun' and 'dynamic' and retain its current role of damage-booster--either it's non-rotational and therefore unreliable or it takes over another position in the toolkit (i.e. finisher), as DonTirri is suggesting (if I am reading what he's writing correctly.)

    Right now I don't think Inq is in a bad place; if the duration-extension glyph were baked in and activating Inquisition early added to the duration instead of overwriting it, I'd be mostly happy.

  10. #150
    Stood in the Fire Zabannith's Avatar
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    There's nothing wrong with Inq , it's not going anywhere, The only thing I can see Blizz doing to it to change it is , making it have a refresh mechanic similar to an assassination rogue with envenom refreshing it so you put it up onceThen more or less forget it unless you have down times in the fight and cannot refresh it with whatever ability they choose to make refresh it

    - - - Updated - - -

    They could even tie it into our art of war procs , "when your art of war activates , it also refreshes the duration of your inquisition to its 3 HP maximum"
    but that's more or less use it once and forget it , because who honestly doesn't get an art of war proc every minute?

    Maybe "your art of war procs add 10 seconds to the duration of your inquisition " , but if this was to be done I'd like to see inquisitions duration to go back to 30 seconds , this way you still have to watch it , if you're unlucky and don't get an art of war proc in 30 seconds you'd still have to reapply inquisition , if you do get and art of war proc awesome , you got another 10 seconds where you don't have to watch it and to hope you get another art of war proc .

    - - - Updated - - -

    Also guys I need help finding all the info you can so I can put it in the OP
    Last edited by Zabannith; 2014-02-28 at 03:54 PM.
    New Ability: Renounce. When cast, Renounce permanently changes the Retribution Paladin into a Warrior and actually be able to dps worth a damn.

  11. #151
    // snip

    Anyway, away from Inquisition. I really hope our Final Verdict talent stays. I fear that it might be too over the top, but I'm sure we could come to an agreement if something else would have to be nerfed slightly.

    Divine Storm - It'd be nice to have our old animation (better: particle effects) back, now that Blizz wants to tune down the effects of other raid members for oneself.

    Hm... right now nothing else comes to mind.

    Edit: Inquisition apparently gone.?
    Last edited by Kelemar; 2014-02-28 at 04:48 PM.

  12. #152
    Stood in the Fire Zabannith's Avatar
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    updated op with racial's that apply to us
    New Ability: Renounce. When cast, Renounce permanently changes the Retribution Paladin into a Warrior and actually be able to dps worth a damn.

  13. #153
    The Lightbringer Lovestar's Avatar
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    CTTC is only fun because you have 2 other specs that keep up S&D, so Mut having CTTC makes it feel special and different. Even then it's on the chopping block for WoD (confirmed), with S&D just stripped from Mut completely (or baked in) since they view CTTC as pointless (making people bind S&D, but only pressing it if something 'goes wrong' and it drops after the initial up).

    If they were going to put Inq on a CTTC mechanic it would basically be the death of Inq at this point in WoW's design. The Shred/Rip mechanic is more interesting, with finishers or Exo or whatever extending the duration of Inq. I actually like that idea.

    Inq at one minute is honestly inane, it's at the "Why is this here?" point and in fact, is fairly similar to CTTC — put it up once, then forget you have the binding. A 20-30s duration that gets extended by 6-10s per finisher (capping at 30s) would at least add something dynamic and engaging to it.

    Buuuuuut we all know how well it turned out giving Ret players a short-duration Inq that required attention/upkeep effort. At this point Blizz does seem on the verge of just writing it off (which they practically did already with the 1m duration).

  14. #154
    Think the most interesting thing that could come of Inq is the Feral Druid mechanic, where you can cast it with no HoPo. Other than that the spell is fine, specially at 1m.

  15. #155
    Quote Originally Posted by Lovestar View Post
    CTTC is only fun because you have 2 other specs that keep up S&D, so Mut having CTTC makes it feel special and different. Even then it's on the chopping block for WoD (confirmed), with S&D just stripped from Mut completely (or baked in) since they view CTTC as pointless (making people bind S&D, but only pressing it if something 'goes wrong' and it drops after the initial up).

    If they were going to put Inq on a CTTC mechanic it would basically be the death of Inq at this point in WoW's design. The Shred/Rip mechanic is more interesting, with finishers or Exo or whatever extending the duration of Inq. I actually like that idea.

    Inq at one minute is honestly inane, it's at the "Why is this here?" point and in fact, is fairly similar to CTTC — put it up once, then forget you have the binding. A 20-30s duration that gets extended by 6-10s per finisher (capping at 30s) would at least add something dynamic and engaging to it.

    Buuuuuut we all know how well it turned out giving Ret players a short-duration Inq that required attention/upkeep effort. At this point Blizz does seem on the verge of just writing it off (which they practically did already with the 1m duration).
    I'm not sure a return to old-style Inq is a great idea. Even if HP generation isn't as painful as it was then, pressing the button more often doesn't make it more interesting.

  16. #156
    Stood in the Fire Zabannith's Avatar
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    well some ppl are saying inq is gone , but i have yet to see a blue post stating this , IF it was gutted, there'd better be some changes to ret because it would literally be 4 button priority spec with nothing else to do or even try to maintain , not to mention all our dmg would need to reworked and then there's the fact that final verdict without inq will only hit as hard as tv does now most likely , guess rets will be seal twisting after all in wod?
    New Ability: Renounce. When cast, Renounce permanently changes the Retribution Paladin into a Warrior and actually be able to dps worth a damn.

  17. #157
    Quote Originally Posted by Zabannith View Post
    well some ppl are saying inq is gone , but i have yet to see a blue post stating this , IF it was gutted, there'd better be some changes to ret because it would literally be 4 button priority spec with nothing else to do or even try to maintain , not to mention all our dmg would need to reworked and then there's the fact that final verdict without inq will only hit as hard as tv does now most likely , guess rets will be seal twisting after all in wod?
    Just saw some people claim it as well. I have never seen any mention of this though either. Hopefully, Inq stays!

  18. #158
    Stood in the Fire Zabannith's Avatar
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    Well ...looks like more nails in the coffin for Inquisition.....too bad I liked it and it was what separated the good from great rets
    New Ability: Renounce. When cast, Renounce permanently changes the Retribution Paladin into a Warrior and actually be able to dps worth a damn.

  19. #159
    The Undying Aeluron Lightsong's Avatar
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    I got a feeling they'll be replacing it with something. That tweet isn't really telling much.
    #TeamLegion

    Paladin-Sorcerer at your service! My Youtube Channel https://www.youtube.com/user/Aeluron

  20. #160
    Stood in the Fire Zabannith's Avatar
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    I honestly don't see a problem with it , build on it sure , but remove it an replace it with something else...when there's nothing wrong with it? sounds redundant to me.
    Really what could they replace it with that will fill the same role as inq?
    New Ability: Renounce. When cast, Renounce permanently changes the Retribution Paladin into a Warrior and actually be able to dps worth a damn.

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