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  1. #121
    Quote Originally Posted by Valarius View Post
    Essentially, yes.

    Once upon a time, Divine Storm was our main nuke. Then they got all annoyed that certain classes were "padding" meters by providing a lot of free cleave (and, I suppose, breaking CC - but they have the ability to prevent that) so they split everything apart. The result is we now have 4 buttons instead of 2.
    Yea I enjoyed having aoe abilities as bonus rotation abilities. Not sure why they split them to a separate aoe rotation like DS, Fire Nova, Whirlwind, etc, as it still changed priorities when multiple adds came into the picture.

  2. #122
    Deleted
    Sooo, AMP won't be a stat in WoD according to the tweet by Celestalon on the main page. A darn shame, since it seemed a lot more interesting than multistrike or readiness. But on the other hand, considering how strong Thok's is for strength melee classes (And I assume it's agi/spi/int equals for their respective classes), I'm not surprised.

    Pruning CD's was mentioned, yet no specifics concerning Prot&Ret, but apparently Divine Favor is gone for Holy. Any guesses which one did Ret lose? AW or GoAK?

  3. #123
    Quote Originally Posted by DonTirri View Post
    Sooo, AMP won't be a stat in WoD according to the tweet by Celestalon on the main page. A darn shame, since it seemed a lot more interesting than multistrike or readiness. But on the other hand, considering how strong Thok's is for strength melee classes (And I assume it's agi/spi/int equals for their respective classes), I'm not surprised.

    Pruning CD's was mentioned, yet no specifics concerning Prot&Ret, but apparently Divine Favor is gone for Holy. Any guesses which one did Ret lose? AW or GoAK?
    Probably just going to be one ability now - AW as a flat % damage/heal increase with some kind of massive burst at the end.

  4. #124
    I'd say Kings becomes a Protection only talent. If I was them, I'd look at sorting out Holy Avenger too though. In its current state it'll still be the best thing to stack with Avenging Wrath for PVP unless they put in a tooltip saying that Holy Avenger has a forbearance style disability until Avenging Wrath expires.

  5. #125
    Quote Originally Posted by DonTirri View Post
    Sooo, AMP won't be a stat in WoD according to the tweet by Celestalon on the main page. A darn shame, since it seemed a lot more interesting than multistrike or readiness. But on the other hand, considering how strong Thok's is for strength melee classes (And I assume it's agi/spi/int equals for their respective classes), I'm not surprised.

    Pruning CD's was mentioned, yet no specifics concerning Prot&Ret, but apparently Divine Favor is gone for Holy. Any guesses which one did Ret lose? AW or GoAK?
    One of the tweets from before was they'd like ti have Holy use Divine Favor, Prot use GoAK, and Ret use AW. We'll see how things go come beta, or sooner if stuff leaks.
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  6. #126
    Stood in the Fire Zabannith's Avatar
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    op updated will update more of op in morning it 2am
    Last edited by Zabannith; 2014-02-28 at 06:14 AM.
    New Ability: Renounce. When cast, Renounce permanently changes the Retribution Paladin into a Warrior and actually be able to dps worth a damn.

  7. #127
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    I wonder if they won't force ret to switch seals depending on ST, or AoE. With HotR and DS only being usable with SoR active, and CS and TV any other time.

    I have a sinking feeling though that we might be in for another overhaul. Cata all over again?
    Patience is a virtue. I never claimed to be virtuous.

  8. #128
    Quote Originally Posted by Valkyrst View Post
    I'd say Kings becomes a Protection only talent. If I was them, I'd look at sorting out Holy Avenger too though. In its current state it'll still be the best thing to stack with Avenging Wrath for PVP unless they put in a tooltip saying that Holy Avenger has a forbearance style disability until Avenging Wrath expires.
    It's going to kill holy healing in PvE, and the last thing we need is overly-aggressive balancing in minigames(PvP) to affect the main game.

    It's perfectly fine if it's a PvP only change though.
    "My successes are my own, but my failures are due to extremist leftist liberals" - Party of Personal Responsibility

    Prediction for the future

  9. #129
    Deleted
    I've been thinking about rets finisher-situation and started wondering if Inquisition would serve better as a holy-dmg dot on the target instead of a passive buff. That would make it less of a "i have to keep it up or my dps will suffer" and more of a "I'm doing damage!" kinda deal while maintaining q modicum of "complexity" in our rotation. Sure, it would hurt our aoe/cleave, but thats already in a good place. Also, it might even offer an actual choice in sustained cleave-situations, we might wanna multi-dot with inq instead of just spamming DS

  10. #130
    Quote Originally Posted by DonTirri View Post
    I've been thinking about rets finisher-situation and started wondering if Inquisition would serve better as a holy-dmg dot on the target instead of a passive buff. That would make it less of a "i have to keep it up or my dps will suffer" and more of a "I'm doing damage!" kinda deal while maintaining q modicum of "complexity" in our rotation. Sure, it would hurt our aoe/cleave, but thats already in a good place. Also, it might even offer an actual choice in sustained cleave-situations, we might wanna multi-dot with inq instead of just spamming DS
    So you want a self buff that helps to damage turn into a dot that helps to do damage ._. gg targets that die pretty quickly

  11. #131
    Iterating a little more on DonTirri's idea, Inquisition could be a self-buff that builds as you spend Holy Power, that you can then trigger to boost the next attack you hit. So normally you let it build up to whatever max stacks, pop it for your finisher, but towards the end of a fight/if a mob/group of mobs is dying there may be some merit in popping the Inq 'early' for less max damage but more useful damage.

  12. #132
    Quote Originally Posted by KurenaiXIII View Post
    Iterating a little more on DonTirri's idea, Inquisition could be a self-buff that builds as you spend Holy Power, that you can then trigger to boost the next attack you hit. So normally you let it build up to whatever max stacks, pop it for your finisher, but towards the end of a fight/if a mob/group of mobs is dying there may be some merit in popping the Inq 'early' for less max damage but more useful damage.
    So it would be a bit like tiger eye brew?

  13. #133
    Quote Originally Posted by Butler Log View Post
    So it would be a bit like tiger eye brew?
    I guess? Unfortunately I haven't done nearly anything with monk so I'm not really familiar with the way Tigereye Brew works. If our base damage were compensated for without having Inq and Inq becomes a booster I wouldn't mind having one more button to push.

  14. #134
    How about:

    "Your Crusader Strike, Hammer of the Righteous, Exorcism and Hammer of Wrath stack Inquisition on targets hit, increasing Holy damage taken by 5% per stack for 30 seconds. Activate Inquisitor's Vengeance to consume the stacks on your current target to increase your total damage done by [(sum_stacks*5%] and critical strike chance by [sum_stacks*2%] for 15 seconds."

    It would need balancing to make it worth-while activating Inquisitor's Vengeance though.

  15. #135
    Quote Originally Posted by etsumii92 View Post
    Incredibly OP for any council/cleave fight. You'd have 100% uptime of Vengeance as well as them taking increasing holy damage from debuffs. You could easily have 3x5 stacks up at a time.

    If it soaked stacks from all targets, it would need a cap and as such would be useless to activate.
    I was thinking maybe prevent Inquisition stacks from applying during Vengeance?

  16. #136
    Deleted
    The idea I had was to change Inq from a boring (as most seem to classify it) passive that buffs your damage, into something that actually DOES damage. Yeah, sure it would only be useful for mobs that live long, but then again, who bothers to keep inq up at trash? I personally dont mind inq, but if it was a ST dot that hits hard, it wouldn't feel so... Well boring to pop inq.

  17. #137
    Quote Originally Posted by DonTirri View Post
    The idea I had was to change Inq from a boring (as most seem to classify it) passive that buffs your damage, into something that actually DOES damage. Yeah, sure it would only be useful for mobs that live long, but then again, who bothers to keep inq up at trash? I personally dont mind inq, but if it was a ST dot that hits hard, it wouldn't feel so... Well boring to pop inq.
    I'm pretty hardcore about keeping inq up, myself. I get what you want but essentially you're replacing TV/DS as a finisher, which I don't think we need. I'd rather see TV just hit hard enough without Inq. To some extent any ability that we use rotationally is going to become 'just a button we hit' unless everything becomes based on reacting to procs.

  18. #138
    Deleted
    Getting sat out from aoe/cleave fights is not a good argument either, since we're already badly hurting on ST-department, and if Blizz retains a similar design philosophy they had in SoO (i.e aoe/cleave is mainly meterpadding/nice to habe but not mandatory and ST matters most, prime examples being spoils, paragons, garrosh, siegecrafter and shamans if melee etc) then more ST at the expense of cleave is a fair trade imo.

  19. #139
    All these suggestions to make inq gameplay interesting and exciting have a good potential, but i think most of them lack one part of current inq gameplay which is fast target switching. If you lok at SoO boses almost every fight has some add which you need to nuke within secs. With current model we'r one of the best specs on quick target switch fights as we barely lose anything while switching. Most of inq changes that were suggested are focusing on building/stacking dots on target, just remember how much rogues want ret style of hopo for combo points and some of these changes are bringing us closer to one part of rogue gameplay and problems.

    While suggestions above look promising for single target it may suffer on mass aoe packs unless we'r fighting windlord where inq could tick for full duration. I think they should keep current model of inq or bake it in.
    Damn its anoying to type so much from phone, appologies for bad typos.

  20. #140
    The more I think about it, the more I think Inquisition can't be made 'fun' and 'dynamic' and retain its current role of damage-booster--either it's non-rotational and therefore unreliable or it takes over another position in the toolkit (i.e. finisher), as DonTirri is suggesting (if I am reading what he's writing correctly.)

    Right now I don't think Inq is in a bad place; if the duration-extension glyph were baked in and activating Inquisition early added to the duration instead of overwriting it, I'd be mostly happy.

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