Warlords of Draenor Dev Interviews, Proving Grounds Requirement in WoD, Blue Tweets

[mikencarly]

Fyi you don't have to do provideing grounds all you have to do is make a premade group boom done not a big deal really lol

[Arvandor]

this shitty pg requirement will only work on shitty elitist forums.. meantime all other normal players have only one question.. why should i play heriocs, when i force to do other shitty things? pls blizzard give me a reason to do this...

[Giscoicus]

this shitty pg requirement will only work on shitty elitist forums.. meantime all other normal players have only one question.. why should i play heriocs, when i force to do other shitty things? pls blizzard give me a reason to do this...

Why should good players end up with windowlickers in their dungeon groups? Why should everything be nerfed so terribads can do it?

[Arvandor]

R.I.P. heroics.. your are not forgotten.. its a shame to see that this is another wasted developing time.. providing ground and the scenarios, its all failed in this xpac.. pls blizzard let these features in mop!

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Why should good players end up with windowlickers in their dungeon groups? Why should everything be nerfed so terribads can do it?

the true good player help the other not so good player.. do you understand?

[Farabee]

I'm all for reducing ability bloat. Honestly, some classes have ridiculous rotations right now (fury warriors have way too much overlap in particular) while others hit maybe 3-4 buttons the whole fight (destro locks) and top meters. It's reminiscent of the end of WOTLK where classes like enhancement shamans just macro'd everything to one button. I'd rather have one ability that was used in a certain situation than a ton of buttons that do nothing.

Everything else...meh. I like how heroics are going to be a bit more heroic this time though, and give loot on par with LFR.

[Deleted]

We originally planned that Karazhan would play a role in the event that would precede the release of Warlords of Draenor, we thought of a phased scenario taking place in Karazhan. The place has links to the destruction of the Dark Portal and you would have been sent there to investigate on the subject. Finally, we decided against it and developers then had fun with the dataminers from MMO-Champion.

Hilarious

[Deleted]

the true good player help the other not so good player.. do you understand?

I do help my friends that are not so good yea, but why would I want to help some completely random person? Who most of the time don't even want to get better and just want a free boost?

[tylenol]

Normal dungeon loot will give you enough gear for Raid Finder, while Heroic dungeon loot will help you gear up for Normal raids. This will be important at the start of the expansion, as Heroic dungeons will be open before Raid Finder, making it the best way to gear up for Normal raids.

So if I'm understanding this correctly, heroic dungeon loot isn't better than LFR gear but since LFR isn't open the first 2 weeks, heroic dungeons are the best way to gear for normal raids just because its the best gear you can get for 2 weeks till raids/lfr opens?

[cursero]

Silvermoon is HUGE. Reconstructing is FROM SCRATCH in 3D (much of it are just flat textures) is a very large undertaking and needs to be done by the people that design environments. (THAT INCLUDES RAIDS)

So it would - literally- take people away from raid develeopment.

It's not an excuse, it's the simple truth.
Whether some random internet hero believes it or not, doesn't change the fact, that even Blizzard does not have infinite resources and never will have them.

So? they can eliminate one raid wing, and finish the old world.

[Siddown]

So? they can eliminate one raid wing, and finish the old world.

To fix a city that nobody goes to or even cares about? Building software is about picking your battles wisely, "fixing" Silvermoon is just not a battle that needs to be picked.

[Yriel]

Was PvP any worse in TBC or WotLK with less abilities?

Actually i wouldn't be surprised if he had more abilities in TBC. They already removed a lot of them and we only got one new ability in Wrath, Cata and MoP. Shamans, for example, definitively had more abilities back then with all the totems. Healers, too with all the downgrading.

That was the attitude they took with cata dungeons. Oh just wait, they'll learn to stop being bad. We saw how that worked out. Making a blog and telling players to l2play doesn't miraculously make them l2play. It's a stupid idea and it will be abandoned very quickly. I give it a couple months before they take the PG requirement out.

On top of that i'd guess that most players do know how to play correctly but are just too lazy to do so. They just want to get the dungeon over with and don't want the hassle of moving out of the fire or focusing and ccing a target.
The PG requirement will change nothing.

[Siddown]

Actually i wouldn't be surprised if he had more abilities in TBC. They already removed a lot of them and we only got one new ability in Wrath, Cata and MoP. Shamans, for example, definitively had more abilities back then with all the totems. Healers, too with all the downgrading.

I knew someone would bring up Totems.

In TBC, most classes had dramatically less abilities than they do today. Shamans and Hunters (with both Melee and Ranged) are probably the exception. For casters, downcasting was used more in PvE than PvP.

We could go class by class, but I think you'll find that most classes have a lot lot keybinds than they did back in TBC. Nobody says that TBC was easy mode because a Rogue had eight less abilities than they do now, now maybe there were balance issues, but the game wasn't any worse because of it.

EDIT: And the reason I am speaking about PvP in particular is that PvE rotations tend to use far less abilities than you would use in PvP.

[Deleted]

the true good player help the other not so good player.. do you understand?

Not in queued groups with completely random players who can't even be bothered to say "hello" or even make any kind of effort. That just doesn't work.

If you want a place for newcomers and inexperienced players to learn (either learning together or being helped by veteran players), then look towards premade groups. Dungeon Finder is not the right place for people to learn how to play their class.

[Deleted]

Awesome model of Illidan, have never been a fan of the "LoL and Dota" games.. but im definitely gonna try HoS :P

[Sainur]

Fare thee well, dungeons. Fare thee well.

R.I.P.

[Siddown]

Fare thee well, dungeons. Fare thee well.

R.I.P.

How so?

Right now, 27% of the player base as gotten Silver in at least one spec despite the fact that Proving Ground doesn't mean anything. When it actually matters, as in you have to do them (and I imagine you'll get the quest automatically when dinging 100) that number will be much higher.

You have to consider a few things:

1) Who are the people who actually queue up for Heroic 5mans?

2) Aren't they already the kind of people who could get a Silver in PGs if they needed to?

[Katharine]

The That-or-a-Raid argument again... Seems like a new catchphrase along with "soon"

Indeed. And it's a silly argument. Silvermoon is the city I call home while raids are just something I'd run a few times and then will never set foot in again.

[Gray_Matter]

IMHO, if they want to get people doing HC dungeons they should put the loot somewhere between LFR and Flex and make them the appropriate difficulty. I really enjoyed the hard HC dungeons that we used to have. You don't need to start putting requirements on them. People will kick bad players soon enough.

[Siddown]

Indeed. And it's a silly argument. Silvermoon is the city I call home while raids are just something I'd run a few times and then will never set foot in again.

If you put out a poll that asked the player base do they want another Raid or Silvermoon to be rebuilt, the vast majority would pick another raid.

[Harmann]

I think the idea of an LFR piece for bronze challenge mode is kind of amusing.

My only annoyance is Ner'zhul in a 5-man. Hopefully he doesn't get shanked in the 5-man, otherwise Blizzard has such a hate on for that guy. First Arthas emos and kills Ner'zhul with his mind after Ner'zhul gave him everything he had (and took away everything he had before really.) and now he's relegated to 5-man boss duty. Oof.



It very likely is only a first tier thing, as that was the only point where it's really a problem. Beyond the first tier if a guild is forcing their raiders to run LFR then your guild was abusing you, plain and simple.

At launch normal 5-mans will provide you gear to make you capable of running LFR. Heroics will be close enough to LFR gear to allow you to skip LFR. LFR gear will be below normal gear, and so on.

When the next raid patch launches there is no need to do anything at all to 5-man loot, or older LFR loot. Entry level 5-mans are obsolete and so is the gear from them, old LFR gets you gear for new LFR, old normal gets you gear for new normal, and so on. If they add new heroic 5-mans (unlikely based on past history.) then it can reward slightly better loot than the older heroics, but at that point it no longer has to compete with LFR.

Probably the easiest way to fix all the tears about guilds forcing raiders to do LFR.

That's great at the start of the expansion, but what about people who join up later into it? That's my situation with MoP, and I'm basically forced into this horrid LFR system if I want to gear up for raiding...because without LFR ilvls, you're going to have trouble getting into Flex groups, and without Flex it's a little tough to get geared up for Normal SoO, let alone Heroic.

Previously, the entry level raid catchup gear was available from 5 mans + badges. That would get you ready to start performing well in Normal raids.

Let's look at WotLK for example. When Ulduar was current content, its 10 man version was dropping ilvl 213 gear. The Heroic 5 man and badge gear was ilvl 200. You were barely behind the raiding item levels.

When ICC was current content the 10 man version was ilvl 251; the Icecrown 5 mans were dropping 232 (only 19 lvls behind 10M raid drops), and the badge gear was ilvl 264 (same as 25M/10H drops).

Now let's look at SoO and 5.4:

The normal raid difficulty items are ilvl 553/559. 5 man dungeons drop only blues, max level 463. Badge gear is ilvl 522 (31-39 behind Normal raid), but it takes weeks to buy them...after which you have no VP left over to upgrade your gear. Timeless Isle is 535, but has bad stat distribution generally and no sockets...still a viable beginning towards getting raid ready. The only other avenue towards gear is LFR, and with being locked @ 1 kill per week, RNG might make it take 2-4 weeks before your character's ilevel is high enough to consistently find Flex groups. My Rogue is now finally ilvl 530 after 3 weeks of many hours playtime, and it's still hard as hell to get accepted to Flex groups...let alone find any remotely solid Normal/Heroic groups.