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  1. #1
    Field Marshal mat cauthon's Avatar
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    Thumbs down PvP gear in Raids.

    Does anyone recall what the patch notes were for the patch that made pvp gear in pve content absolutely terrible. i recall back in the BC era they did something that made the gear worse then its pve equivalent when in instanced content and i cant for the life of me find where.

    Reason being is i have a thick headed members of questionable intelligence who seems determined to deck himself out in the new seasons pvp gear for raiding claiming its better then other gear because it has as much stats as pve gear on it, and unfortunately despite my continuous explanations thats it doesnt work that way he doesnt seem to want to take my word for it. and unfortunately other members who are starting to gear up are starting to listen to the fool so id like to nip this in the bud instead of watching numerous members waste time and effort on gear that not only wont help but will be detrimental to their raid performance.

  2. #2
    It is the same gear as pve in minor slots.
    These slots being: wrist, belt, amulet, rings and boots.
    Here it does not matter what gear piece you have, be it pvp or pve. Pick something with highest ilvl & best stats and be good.
    The important slots where PVE gear is superior: weapon, trinkets, Tierset slots.

  3. #3
    If it's higher item level, then it's probably acceptable.

  4. #4
    Using PvP gear in raid isn't ideal, but it isn't particularly bad anymore. I wouldn't accept a player that uses it exclusive to PvE gear, but as a stopgap it's fine. THe ony issue with PvP gear is the lack of a set bonus that helps in a PvE environment. Blizz actually did away with the PvP gear penalty during Cata.

  5. #5
    I actually used the 4 piece pvp set, even though the ilvl was lower for progressing through MSV and HoF because the set bonus was so OP for holy paladins. Stat wise, you get the exact same stats as pve gear of that ilvl, pvp power doesn't count against the other stats. I really don't see an issue so long as he isn't passing up equal ilvl gear with better stats for his spec, or skipping on tier bonuses. It isn't a bad strategy to deck yourself out in PVP gear while waiting for PVE gear to drop. If anything, you are helping the raid out by not holding onto that low ilvl item just because you can't get another PVE item to drop.

  6. #6
    I am Murloc! Firebert's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mat cauthon View Post
    Reason being is i have a thick headed members of questionable intelligence who seems determined to deck himself out in the new seasons pvp gear for raiding claiming its better then other gear because it has as much stats as pve gear on it
    True. iL550 PvP gear = iL550 PvE gear. Resilience and PvP Power do not cost any item budget.

    Maybe you should listen to your "thick-headed members of questionable intelligence".
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  7. #7
    Field Marshal mat cauthon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Waarheid View Post
    Blizz actually did away with the PvP gear penalty during Cata.
    really now? what patch did they do away with it if you recall? im curious as they have always talked of keeping the two separate... considering the entire reason for the penalty in the first place was complaints about players in grand marshal gear walking into raids with no previous raiding and being OP for the most part, removing that and then adding pvp gear on par with current raid gear is just asking for that issue again.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by mat cauthon View Post
    really now? what patch did they do away with it if you recall? im curious as they have always talked of keeping the two separate... considering the entire reason for the penalty in the first place was complaints about players in grand marshal gear walking into raids with no previous raiding and being OP for the most part, removing that and then adding pvp gear on par with current raid gear is just asking for that issue again.
    the patch just before pandas

  9. #9
    Pandaren Monk Redpanda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mat cauthon View Post
    really now? what patch did they do away with it if you recall? im curious as they have always talked of keeping the two separate... considering the entire reason for the penalty in the first place was complaints about players in grand marshal gear walking into raids with no previous raiding and being OP for the most part, removing that and then adding pvp gear on par with current raid gear is just asking for that issue again.
    come tuesday the new pvp gear will be ilvl 550. reg raid gear is 552
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    People doing below 200k dps? Ain't nobody got time for that.
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    Why? Why should content be gated behind skill?
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  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Redpanda View Post
    come tuesday the new pvp gear will be ilvl 550. reg raid gear is 552
    PvP gear can't be upgraded. 550 vs 561. There is no discussion to be had here.

  11. #11
    Field Marshal mat cauthon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Illiterate View Post
    the patch just before pandas
    ive just finished reading all patch notes from 4.3 to 5.0.5 and the only mention about pvp in all the notes is spell pen and resil being changed, head enchants being no more, and everyone having a base 40% resil... nothing about the penalty being removed, are you sure thats the correct timeframe?

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by mat cauthon View Post
    ive just finished reading all patch notes from 4.3 to 5.0.5 and the only mention about pvp in all the notes is spell pen and resil being changed, head enchants being no more, and everyone having a base 40% resil... nothing about the penalty being removed, are you sure thats the correct timeframe?
    Up until MoP, PvP gear would only have one secondary stat relevant to PvE. The other stat would always be resilience.
    Now, in MoP, PvP gear has two secondary stats relevant to PvE, in addition to PvP power. A piece of 550 PvP gear has the same itemization points as a piece of 550 PvE gear.

    (Note, this doesn't mean that they'll have the same exact amount of secondary stats, because Blizzard has stated that the more of one stat an item has, the more itemization points it takes. This is why the one stat items from timeless isle has far fewer total secondary stat points than 2 stat items. A piece of gear can have 1300 haste and 1300 crit for 2600 total stats, and another same item level piece might have 1000 haste and 1500 crit for 2500 total)

    There wasn't ever any explicit "penalty". It always just was the fact that PvP gear only had one secondary stat until MoP, so PvP gear in PvE was truly a disadvantage.

    The only thing you're really losing out on would be PvE relevant set bonuses, and sometimes socket bonuses (a lot of PvP gear has pvp power/resil as it's socket bonus), as well as the ability to upgrade the gear. 550 PvP gear can be more useful than flex gear in many cases.

    Even at 550 though, it's still not close to the 553+8 that normals drop. If he's using PvP gear over normal gear he's wrong in most cases.
    Last edited by Vedni; 2014-02-23 at 10:56 PM.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Firebert View Post
    True. iL550 PvP gear = iL550 PvE gear. Resilience and PvP Power do not cost any item budget.

    Maybe you should listen to your "thick-headed members of questionable intelligence".
    I agree. I'm a little annoyed OP that you didn't bother to look at the pvp gear and figure this out for yourself, also before insulting your own guild members on a public forum.

    That being said, pve trinkets and tier are usually better (tier due to the pve set bonuses), but if the ilvl is a significant upgrade then the pvp pieces will likely win out until the person in question gets a pve tier/trinket upgrade.

    The best solution in those ambiguous situations is to plug in the gear into a simulator/gear optimizer program to see how an item will influence a player's performance.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by mat cauthon View Post
    ive just finished reading all patch notes from 4.3 to 5.0.5 and the only mention about pvp in all the notes is spell pen and resil being changed, head enchants being no more, and everyone having a base 40% resil... nothing about the penalty being removed, are you sure thats the correct timeframe?
    Yes, that is the correct timeframe.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by mat cauthon View Post
    Does anyone recall what the patch notes were for the patch that made pvp gear in pve content absolutely terrible. i recall back in the BC era they did something that made the gear worse then its pve equivalent when in instanced content and i cant for the life of me find where.

    Reason being is i have a thick headed members of questionable intelligence who seems determined to deck himself out in the new seasons pvp gear for raiding claiming its better then other gear because it has as much stats as pve gear on it, and unfortunately despite my continuous explanations thats it doesnt work that way he doesnt seem to want to take my word for it. and unfortunately other members who are starting to gear up are starting to listen to the fool so id like to nip this in the bud instead of watching numerous members waste time and effort on gear that not only wont help but will be detrimental to their raid performance.
    Back in TBC/WotLK, resilience on PvP gear counted towards the item level of items, making them a lot worse than their PvE counterpart. Using PvP gear in raids really isn't a problem. Hell, I had a lot of bad luck in the first few weeks with weapon/belt, nothing dropped. I killed 8 heroic bosses with my guild with a PvP weapon/belt. Sure, the PvE gear is a lot better. As long as he doesn't skip on drops, it's all good.

  15. #15
    Pandaren Monk Redpanda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jazzyy View Post
    PvP gear can't be upgraded. 550 vs 561. There is no discussion to be had here.
    pvp gear will be a good replacement for lrf, and slightly better than flex teir and trinkets aside
    Chaos! Madness! Like a hug for your brain!¯\(°_o)/¯
    Quote Originally Posted by Alpheus View Post
    People doing below 200k dps? Ain't nobody got time for that.
    Quote Originally Posted by smartazjb0y View Post
    Why? Why should content be gated behind skill?
    14/14h and finally done

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Redpanda View Post
    pvp gear will be a good replacement for lrf, and slightly better than flex teir and trinkets aside
    But not worth bringing over PvE gear as stated, PvE gear is upgradeable and the tier set bonuses are 99% of the time superior to the PvP set bonuses in a PVE enviroment. Maybe you could get away with replacing LFR gear with 550 PvP gear as a stopgap until you have normal or flexi gear but I wouldn't take 550 PvP exclusive to PvE.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by mat cauthon View Post
    Does anyone recall what the patch notes were for the patch that made pvp gear in pve content absolutely terrible. i recall back in the BC era they did something that made the gear worse then its pve equivalent when in instanced content and i cant for the life of me find where.

    Reason being is i have a thick headed members of questionable intelligence who seems determined to deck himself out in the new seasons pvp gear for raiding claiming its better then other gear because it has as much stats as pve gear on it, and unfortunately despite my continuous explanations thats it doesnt work that way he doesnt seem to want to take my word for it. and unfortunately other members who are starting to gear up are starting to listen to the fool so id like to nip this in the bud instead of watching numerous members waste time and effort on gear that not only wont help but will be detrimental to their raid performance.

    Ah the joys of condescending bad people with attitude getting taken down a notch, something good before I go to sleep, people like you are the reason I got flamed in pugs where I had superior gear yet baddies kept whining ''omgitspvpitsbad'' and I kept having to explain their thick skulls they were wrong. anyways gl in pve, doubt youll get far with that lack of game knowledge

  18. #18
    The only thing pvp gear lacks is the usually better set bonus from pve and it has items with pvp power as socket bonus which obviously isn't doing much for pve and it has less sockets overall.
    Last edited by cFortyfive; 2014-02-24 at 12:38 AM.

  19. #19
    pvp gear will be a good replacement for lrf, and slightly better than flex teir and trinkets aside
    Flex gear is 548, so stat wise the difference is minimal. However flex gear will have more sockets, better itemization (In most cases) and have better bonuses.

    So I'd say in most situations the Flex gear will be better.

    PvP Waist:
    +2254 Stamina
    +1423 Intellect
    +995 Spirit
    +879 Haste (2.07% @ L90)
    Blue Socket (160 spi / 160 haste)
    Socket Bonus: +60 Intellect

    PvE Waist (Belt of the Iron Prison)
    +2213 Stamina
    +1315 Intellect
    +989 Spirit
    +759 Critical Strike (1.26% @ L90)
    Red Socket (80 int / 160 crit)
    Blue Socket (160 spi / 160 crit)
    Socket Bonus: +120 Intellect

    The difference between the two items are now:
    2254 vs. 2213 stamina
    1483 vs. 1515 intellect
    1155 vs. 1149 spirit
    1039 vs. 1079 secondary stat.

    While the difference between the two are minimal in either case, the flexible item is just a little bit better. When there are no difference in sockets and no bonuses available (Tier/Trinket/etc.) then the PvP items are slightly better.

  20. #20
    Just upgraded my 535 Timeless Isle boots with a 550 PvP boots on my alt for quite a big stat boost, so yeah its pretty legit for PvE. Just compare the stats it gives with what you currently have. Gearing is not fucking rocket science, stats are stats. Any 550 item is probably better than any flex item unupgraded (unless super bad secondary stats). 550 vs 548 is up to what the secondary stats are on each piece

    EDIT: back to your question you seem to be asking if there is some sort of hidden magic that makes PvP gear worse in raids/instance/what have you. The answer is NO. Stats are stats, what you see is what you get.
    Last edited by Sonrisa; 2014-02-24 at 01:31 AM.

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