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  1. #41
    High Overlord Jakesterwars's Avatar
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    Rallying Cry is basically a last stand for the whole raid. It has saved more lives than not when it comes to a huge burst of damage or high influx of damage (with pairing CDs working with the extra health and/or resto shamans for even MORE health gain).
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  2. #42
    Mechagnome Ashtwo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darkfriend View Post
    Really? Rc is incredibly strong. Kapa, where do you keep getting all this wrong info? Noxxic?

    He's probably comparing it to something like Ancestral Guidance/Aura Mastery/Disc Bubble

  3. #43
    Pandaren Monk Archimtiros's Avatar
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    Rallying Cry is good in its own right. I would like to see it get a small buff to compensate the loss of Demo Banner, since the two are generally used in conjunction; but that really depends on what they do with other cooldowns. Too soon to say.

  4. #44
    The Insane det's Avatar
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    Must say with three banners and all the other buttons I feel my warrior had too many buttons to press anyhow. Then again, I play him as a fun alt and never got into serious use / research of every single ability. But as much as I wanted to consider making him a main, the many abilities and buttons are what eventually turned me off.

    So - I am not opposed to this change.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    One cause is a cognitive bias called projection bias. Essentially living inside your own head your entire life makes it exceedingly difficult to understand how others do not also live your same life, think your same thoughts, and hold your same beliefs. In many cases it's quite frustrating to try to empathize and understand why you yourself may not be the center of the universe, which generally results in one 'acting out' in various ways.
    So, in short: the internet.

  5. #45
    Skull Banner is wonderful.

    http://nooooooooooooooo.com/

    This describes my reaction to the removal of Skull Banner as a Fire mage. My dps during the first minute of the fight is on average about 10% higher with just a single Skull Banner. Trinket procs lets me have close to 90% crit chance with Pyroblast/Fireball during my burst.
    EU first PG wave 30, come at me bros.

  6. #46
    Well every raid cd has its place. Dont forget they balance around them too. When they assume an average of say 10raid cds @25 man given the randomness of how many of each they adjust inc raid dmg too. So If overall the 15raid cds we got atm become 7 then they will adjust to those. You will (should) never have more raid dmg than you can mitigate with cds. Unless you are undergeared, screw up the mechanics, or in the exception of the top 10guilds that get stuck in an overtuned mechanic while they are not really up to gear "requirements".

  7. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by Ashtwo View Post
    Always macro'd my banner with Reck, I do have a separate binding for it as well... But the 2 destro locks already do more DPS than me without me giving them by damn banner without having reck available.
    I guess this is a good argument for removing it. Every single warrior seems to think about themselves with Skull Banner. We're really casual in my guild, so I've never whined on our warrior to match it with me (fire mage) and our destro lock since we have over 1mil burst while his burst is at best 900k and not even half the critical damage.

    Same with Tricks for Rogues. We had two rogues tricking each other. One of them had 160k dps during SoO heroic progress single target. Made me kinda irritated that I didn't get it since when I started reaching 300k, they were still at 160 and 240k. We had several sub 1% wipes, if I got a double tricks at the opener, it would've been sooner kills.
    EU first PG wave 30, come at me bros.

  8. #48
    I just macro'd it with Reck anyway.

  9. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by barackohmama View Post
    Taking away alot of stuff, also means things will get more boring. Sure banner is not the most fun spell, but at least its unique and its rewarding when you actually have to put some skill/thought into things.
    The skill in wow is to have 100 addons and 50 macros. Everytime I come back to play, I need 1-2 days first to update/find new addons, fix my UI and update my macros to work again with the new spell changes (mostly GCD changes). I d love to go back in a vanilla/TBC number of ability rotations and play the game with no addons or minimum addons and macros. Also I don't mind my rotations to be easier, since that mean I will have more time to see the environment and the boss instead of my UI. This is what I liked the most in FFXIV, I could raid and actually see the boss 90% of the time and the fights still had some difficulty (Titan Hardmode, coil). Conclusion is that you don't need complex rotations to make the game difficult and to require skill.
    The trick of selling a PvP-MMO is creating the illusion among gankers that they are respectable fighters while protecting them from respectable fights, as their less skilled half would be massacred and quit instead of “HTFU” as they claim.

  10. #50
    Mechagnome Ashtwo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Archimtiros View Post
    Rallying Cry is good in its own right. I would like to see it get a small buff to compensate the loss of Demo Banner, since the two are generally used in conjunction; but that really depends on what they do with other cooldowns. Too soon to say.
    What would you think about making Rallying Cry do different things depending on which Stance a player is in?

    Defensive Stance gets 20% additional HP and a 10/20% damage reduction for the duration,
    Battle Stance gets 20% additional HP and 10% resource regain regeneration,
    Berserker Stance gets 20% additional HP, 10% damage taken but 10% more damage done,

    Just tossing ideas around of course.

    Quote Originally Posted by Megamisama View Post
    I guess this is a good argument for removing it. Every single warrior seems to think about themselves with Skull Banner. We're really casual in my guild, so I've never whined on our warrior to match it with me (fire mage) and our destro lock since we have over 1mil burst while his burst is at best 900k and not even half the critical damage.

    Same with Tricks for Rogues. We had two rogues tricking each other. One of them had 160k dps during SoO heroic progress single target. Made me kinda irritated that I didn't get it since when I started reaching 300k, they were still at 160 and 240k. We had several sub 1% wipes, if I got a double tricks at the opener, it would've been sooner kills.

    That's the issue with Banner, countless times I'll have the perfect scenario yet Reck won't be up. It'll literally be 10-15 seconds before Reck is up and the boss just hits 20%. I'd love to wait 20 seconds, get a full CS cycle out before starting the new one with Reck/Banner but people will yell "ASH BANNER!!" down mumble. It's great having raid utility to increase output, it's not so great when people demand it on their terms and gimp the person that actually owns it.
    Even worse on Nazgrim, being a Warrior I have the best uptime of the 3 melee so 9 times out of 10 I have to piss about with the adds whilst the dk and ret get to tunnel boss erryday. No problem right? Yeah except when he hits 20% in Berserker phase, the 3 adds spawn and someone yells something along the lines of "Ash on adds, rest on boss, burn him fast" which is code for "fuck your dps ash, gief bannar pl0x". (although I did get to sit boss erryday last week, managed a 50~ rank with subpar gear so... Every cloud.)

  11. #51
    Well, this would be arguing about opinions, but I wouldnt call FFXIV difficult. It reminded me of vanilla wow. The classes are very limited on what they can do, so the only way to make mechanics hard was to make them avoidable one shots. There are no gradients to be countered via intelligent cooldown/skill usage, so the instant you stop clicking, have no lag and remember what to avoid, you are golden for it. Vanilla wow in the end.

    They should be very careful about what they remove. They might end up lobotomizing pve.
    Last edited by Espada; 2014-02-27 at 11:39 AM.

  12. #52
    The thing I like about Skull Banner is that it actually rewards selfless play. It might not be a huge difference, but having 2-3 warriors stagger their skull banners at the right times will benefit your guild during progression, so the more serious guilds will gain those extra few percent they need to push the boss. I never macroed it to reck, but it is sure used together with reck, but as we run with 3 warriors mostly we always make sure to stagger the banners, your personal DPS is not gonna suffer as long as a banner is up, it doesn't have to be your own. In fact you will see a higher DPS from planning and staggering banners than you would if every warriors just throws it at the pull.

    Maybe I'm just lucky that my guild rarely asks for banners to be used at a specific time, so we warriors just plan ahead and stagger them when we feel it's best (pull - midfight - 20%). The only fights I believe we were "told" to use them at a specific time during progression was Siegecrafter (used on belt), Klaxxi (korven burn, Xaril burn) and Garrosh (transition to P3/4 whatever you call it).

    I'm sure gonna miss it
    Last edited by Oliria; 2014-02-27 at 12:01 PM.

  13. #53
    Moderator sjsctt's Avatar
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    Me too Oliria. Whenever we get a new warrior, we immediately work out a banner rotation and adjust it according to attendance.


    You know who doesn't? Our shaman....take their stormlash, not our banner!

  14. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by Ashtwo View Post
    He's probably comparing it to something like Ancestral Guidance/Aura Mastery/Disc Bubble
    Aura Mastery has a fairly short duration and only works on magical damage.
    Disc Bubble has a really small radius.

    Rallying cry is decent enough at providing a buffer against burst damage.
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  15. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by Darkfriend View Post
    Really? Rc is incredibly strong. Kapa, where do you keep getting all this wrong info? Noxxic?
    It's trash bro, when compared to other raid CD's. Same reason shield wall is 1000X better than Last Stand. Damage Reduction/ More Raid healing > More HP


    Edit- And what wrong info? Rogue > Warrior for SoO? Rogue is better for Garrosh, Paragons and Seige. The only real fights that matter.

  16. #56
    They just keep on dumbing the game down.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Kapadons View Post
    It's trash bro, when compared to other raid CD's. Same reason shield wall is 1000X better than Last Stand. Damage Reduction/ More Raid healing > More HP


    Edit- And what wrong info? Rogue > Warrior for SoO? Rogue is better for Garrosh, Paragons and Seige. The only real fights that matter.
    Did you ever raid heroics undergeared? Like when, you know, your raid drops to 10% hp after just 1 of the boss' ability?

  17. #57
    Moderator sjsctt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kapadons View Post
    It's trash bro, when compared to other raid CD's. Same reason shield wall is 1000X better than Last Stand. Damage Reduction/ More Raid healing > More HP


    Edit- And what wrong info? Rogue > Warrior for SoO? Rogue is better for Garrosh, Paragons and Seige. The only real fights that matter.
    We are incredibly strong for all the fights you mentioned.....

    Additionally, rally cry is incredibly strong. Almost every class is losing raid CDs.

  18. #58
    High Overlord
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    On every thread I read someone crying over something it usually comes down to the fact that they only read key words and then cry a river. Makes me question my faith in humanity at times.

    They are removing Skull Banner BECAUSE most Warriors that know wtf they're doing will macro Recklessness and Skull Banner together. That means that you use both the abilities in one click making one or the other ability lose its purpose of being a single ability.
    If you call that dumbing down the game you should go to wikiapedia to read what "Dumb" really means.
    They are removing abilties thats not "needed" due to what I just mentioned above, so they are basically merging the ability removed into something else (Atleast some of the affected ability)

    Why do Blizz do this? Yes, you are thinking correctly. Its to have room for something new, refreshing and getting rid of whats not acctually needed and is a waste of a skill spot.

  19. #59
    Pandaren Monk Archimtiros's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oliria View Post
    The thing I like about Skull Banner is that it actually rewards selfless play. It might not be a huge difference, but having 2-3 warriors stagger their skull banners at the right times will benefit your guild during progression, so the more serious guilds will gain those extra few percent they need to push the boss. I never macroed it to reck, but it is sure used together with reck, but as we run with 3 warriors mostly we always make sure to stagger the banners, your personal DPS is not gonna suffer as long as a banner is up, it doesn't have to be your own. In fact you will see a higher DPS from planning and staggering banners than you would if every warriors just throws it at the pull.

    Maybe I'm just lucky that my guild rarely asks for banners to be used at a specific time, so we warriors just plan ahead and stagger them when we feel it's best (pull - midfight - 20%). The only fights I believe we were "told" to use them at a specific time during progression was Siegecrafter (used on belt), Klaxxi (korven burn, Xaril burn) and Garrosh (transition to P3/4 whatever you call it).

    I'm sure gonna miss it
    See you make a great point about selfless play. It's funny though because I chose the completely opposite argument.
    Most players are going to be selfish. If nothing else, than because it's far easier to measure someone's worth in DPS which encourages that selfish play. So it's not the abilities fault, a much as our fault in how we measure a DPS players skill and worth.
    I take a similar argument regarding Berserker Stance. I don't like it because it encourages you to seek out opportunities to take more damage for your benefit. Selfish play.

    The best solution would be to fix everyone and turn them into true "team players" that takes an absolute perfect world. The easiest solution is simply remove or change the offending abilities.

  20. #60
    The Lightbringer The Caretaker's Avatar
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    Certain classes just have too much utility at the moment and, I'd argue, that warriors are among them. An offensive raid cooldown, two defensive raid cooldowns and a tank external is just overdoing it, in my opinion. Losing Skull Banner for all reasons stipulated is fine with me for that reason, but I'd also like to see us lose one of our defensive ones... And I'm not sure it's going to happen. If it were me, I'd keep Rallying Cry because it's different from other cooldowns and is strong under different circumstances.

    A bit of variety can do the class no harm.
    Quote Originally Posted by Fencers View Post
    Well, it is possible for people, many people actually, to not think very highly of World of Warcraft. Those self same people may even consider other games in the genre superior due to their own subjective qualifiers. Qualifiers which are just as valid as the subjective qualifiers of those whom believe World of Warcraft is a "23 out of 10".

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